A1200 - freezes/hangs, gurus (8000 0003) - even after recap and other fixes

[solarmon]

Hi,

(apologies for long post and many large images!)

I've been struggling with these issues for a while now. This is for an Amiga 1200 rev 2B which I had purchased earlier this year.

I am getting freezes/hangs and gurus (8000 0003). This is seems to be especially when I have an 8MB expansion card connected (in 4MB mode, since I want to use the PCMCIA slot).

Examples of the symptons of the issue:

The screen freezing when an application is just launch - in this example DPaint - the screen freezes, but the CAPS key still seems to work, and it will respond to a CTRL-Amiga-Amiga reset:



Sometimes a 8000 0003 guru is thrown when an application is launched:



After a reboot after the guru, this is typically shown (I have abs, Amiga Boot Selector, in my startup sequence). After a hard or soft reboot it boots up OK:



I had found a couple of issues after inspecting the motherboard:





These were fixed:





However, the issues persisted.

I then re-capped using the Premium re-cap kit from Retro Bench. But this did not resolve the issue either.

I've tried changing to another Amiga power supply (modded a voltmeter and ammeter in to it) and this does not resolve/change anything. (Next is to use a modded PC power supply)

This may or may not be related, but I also get this background graphical glitch in Turrican:



Memory tests using Amiga Test Kit and MBR-Test seems to show every is OK with memory:










So, I've run out of ideas now.

Any suggestions on how to troubleshoot this further?

[Predseda]

The only thing I know is that Turrican glitches appear on all my Amigas, to it is probably unrelated to your hardware problem.

[DofD]

Are you running 3.0 or 3.1 ROMs? Which OS version?

The 8000 0003 code is an illegal addressing error.

Are you using a CF card or IDE hard drive? There have been reports from some people that some CF cards don't play nice and will cause issues like that.

Something I would try, would be to do a clean install of the OS to see if that helps. Over the years I've seen different pieces of software not place nice together and cause all sorts of strange issues.

[solarmon]

Originally Posted by DofD

Are you running 3.0 or 3.1 ROMs? Which OS version?

The 8000 0003 code is an illegal addressing error.

Are you using a CF card or IDE hard drive? There have been reports from some people that some CF cards don't play nice and will cause issues like that.

Something I would try, would be to do a clean install of the OS to see if that helps. Over the years I've seen different pieces of software not place nice together and cause all sorts of strange issues.

I have Kickstart 3.0 and using ClassicWB LITE installed on a Crucial 256MB CF.

Yes, I was planning to do a stock clean install of ClassicWB. Possibly on a different brand CF card also, to rule out the actual CF card itself. Also, to use a different brand IDE to CF adapter too. And maybe a different distro like BetterWB.

I suspect it might be related to the memory expansion card as the issue seems to be more frequent when it is connected.

The memory card already had an issue with 4MB mode where it allocated Slow memory in the wrong address range and that caused memory addressing issues. However, I had got the firmware updated that removed the Slow ram in 4MB mode. But I don't know what other issues it could also have. The only way to rule it out completely is to get another memory expansion card, which I can't justify at the moment.

[DofD]

It sounds like you have a plan there on things to try. Me, I would start with a basic 3.1 install, and then build up from there.

If the problem still happens occasionally without the memory expansion, there could be a chip ram or agnus issue. But I'd start with the fresh OS installs to see if that helps.

Getting a Diag ROM may also shed some light on what is happening.

[solarmon]

Originally Posted by DofD

It sounds like you have a plan there on things to try. Me, I would start with a basic 3.1 install, and then build up from there.

If the problem still happens occasionally without the memory expansion, there could be a chip ram or agnus issue. But I'd start with the fresh OS installs to see if that helps.

Getting a Diag ROM may also shed some light on what is happening.

Good point about a stock 3.1 install - I've got it the Workbench 3.1 ADF images on an internal Gotek drive that I can switch DF0 to. Or are any ready made CF images that can be downloaded somewhere? Maybe use HstWB?

I'll look further in to diagrom - whether to just buy it ready flashed, or to build my own set.

[DofD]

Originally Posted by solarmon

Good point about a stock 3.1 install - I've got it the Workbench 3.1 ADF images on an internal Gotek drive that I can switch DF0 to. Or are any ready made CF images that can be downloaded somewhere? Maybe use HstWB?

I'll look further in to diagrom - whether to just buy it ready flashed, or to build my own set.

There are probably some images out there, especially with the Win-UAE folks. Though HstWB does look interesting.

Another thought would be that you could set up your own a CF image using Win-UAE.

[solarmon]

I'm having trouble with WinUAE and my CF reader - not seeing the CF.

So I'm going to go old skool and just do a stock Workbench 3.1 install direct on the A1200.

[solarmon]

Got stock Workbench 3.1 installed, during which I did not have the memory expansion card in, and there were no issues during the install.

But it is now running with the memory expansion card in it:



This was installed to a different Crucial 256MB CF card, so that I can switch between them (I really do need to get an external facing IDE to CF adapter).

However, since it is stock, there is not much I can really do with it!

I'll just keep it running for a while and keep running various stock applications/tools and see whether anything happens.

[DofD]

It's a step forward! Does it remain stable after reboots? Do you have DPaint or something on floppy or something on your Gotek you could try?

Yeah, with an internal IDE to CF, changing the cards would be bothersome.

On a side note. With my 1200 I am using a CF to SD adaptor with good success, as SD's are cheaper and easier to get than CF's.

[solarmon]

Some testing of the stock Workbench 3.1 install with some Amigas Format coverdisks did not have any of the issues of concern. The only issues seem were other gurus which I will attribute to just general incompatibility of older software. There were non of the screen freezes or "8000 0003" gurus

I also tested a stock ClassicWB (upgraded to Workbench 3.1):



After about 15 minutes of testing with various coverdisks and openning and closing directories, the screen freeze issue occurred - this is when a directory is was clicked and opened up:





Again, the screen froze, could not move the mouse, but the Caps lock key and light were working, and I was able to reboot with CTRL-Amiga-Amiga. No gurus or other errors occur during the reboot.

The '8000 0003' guru has not appeared yet, but I haven't tested for that long. Since this screen freeze issue has occurred, I will assume that the '8000 0003' guru will probably rear its head at some point, but I'll continue to test.

[solarmon]

There you go!

Just 10 minutes in to testing this morning, this screen freeze and glitch when the window was resized:



Then a '8000 0003' guru with trying to launch DISKMAGIC.DOC:



I'll go back to stock 3.1 and try to repeat the same tests.

[solarmon]

Back to Workbench 3.1, and after a lot of windows and apps opened, it freezes on just selecting the DISKMAGIC.DOC icon:



Then after a reboot with CTRL-Amiga-Amiga, it throws the '8000 0003' guru after it loads workbench:

[solarmon]

Looking around the forum regarding freezes and hangs led me to the timing fixes - as detailed at:

http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/am..._mobo_fix.html

EDIT: A nice stackexchange article on this subject:

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange...0-timing-fixes

Now, this is typically associated with accelerator cards, but I thought that it could possibly apply to memory expansion cards too, especially with the modern ones that I have.

So I decided to remove E123C and E125C.

Before removal:


After removal and cleanup:


There are other related fixes, but these two cap removal seems to be the first that is suggested.

It is too soon to really tell whether this has resolved anything, since the issues are so random, but with the little testing I have done tonight, those screen freezes and '8000 0003' gurus have not appeared, yet.

[solarmon]

So, second night of quick testing and I still can't get it to screen freeze or throw a '8000 0003' guru. So good, so far!

Below are some notes, for my own reference, regarding the 'timing fix' I did of removing E123C and E125C capacitors.

E123C and E125C are connected to the 7MHz and _CDAC signals going from Alice to Budgie:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_custom_chips#Budgie

Used in the A1200, Budgie connects the trapdoor expansion port for Zorro II-like expansions and controls additional Fast RAM.

https://bboah.com/?action=artikel&ca...179&artlang=en

Budgie is a DRAM and bus controller, only found in the A1200. The Budgie chip in some ways is like a baby version of the buster chip as it also handles the trapdoor slot, which is almost electrically a Zorro II slot.



These are the traces for the 7MHz and _CDAC signals - top board:



These are the traces for the 7MHz and _CDAC signals - bottom board:

[DofD]

That's great to hear that doing the capacitor timing fixes seemed to have helped. It may be that the memory expansion you have is sensitive to the the signal integrity issues that removing the capacitors addresses.

Some good investigations and work on your part! Hopefully no more freezing happens.

[solarmon]

Originally Posted by DofD

It may be that the memory expansion you have is sensitive to the the signal integrity issues that removing the capacitors addresses.

Well, I don't know whether it is the actual card itself that has the issue, or whether it is Budgie that is not correctly managing the expansion port and/or Fast Memory because of any potential clock signal issues. I haven't got another expansion card (whether accelerator and/or memory) to compare against.

I really do hope that this fix will have resolved the issue. Only time will tell!