HOL v3 Launch - Page 3

modrobert · 21 July 2023, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

There's also a user list and search in the menu and here: https://amiga.abime.net/users/list

I tried my own forum user there (modrobert), it has no "EAB POSTS", although it reads over 700 posts in the stats here in the forum.

Does HOL have its own user database? When checking "/games/" it states "Logout" in top bar (assuming that means I'm logged in already), when checking the "/users/" list it shows "Login", but logging in with my forum user then doesn't seem to do anything.

Anyway, I think the old HOL design was really top notch, fast and responsive, so any major changes are negative to me, still, the new site is kind of neutral and doesn't get in the way of the info, so not too bothered by the change.

Regarding backwards compatibility with old browsers, just avoid Javascript completely, that shouldn't be a problem, right?

Bren McGuire · 21 July 2023, 15:40

no friend you can ruin older browser capabilities even using CSS its not 2004 anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

Regarding backwards compatibility with old browsers, just avoid Javascript completely, that shouldn't be a problem, right?

Amiga1992 · 21 July 2023, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

Yes, here it is:
https://amiga.abime.net/users/view/user/id/32239

Not sure how this works, but my own page is absolutely blank, which shouldn't be. I htought I'd report it.

Good job on the new layout and all. HOL will always be the #1 Amiga games database to me.

modrobert · 21 July 2023, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

no friend you can ruin older browser capabilities even using CSS its not 2004 anymore

Yes, OK, so something like HTML 2 (1995) or HTML 4 (1997) levels to be safe. I didn't have any problem accessing the EAB forum (vBulletin 3.8) using iBrowse on my A1200 back when I had more fast RAM, so that level of HTML/CSS/JavaScript seems to be OK.

It was a bit of sarcasm regarding JavaScript in my previous post, these days it feels like the whole internet is held together by suboptimal JavaScript code.

TCH · 22 July 2023, 16:21

It's amiga.abime.net/libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css which crashes Opera 12.16 on the games' subpages.

TCH · 22 July 2023, 16:42

In /libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css there is a class definition of

Code:

.col{-ms-flex-preferred-size:0;flex-basis:0;-ms-flex-positive:1;flex-grow:1;max-width:100%}

In this definition flex-grow: 1 makes Opera 12.16 crash on game subpages.

TCH · 22 July 2023, 16:51

Workaround:
1. Blacklist *://amiga.abime.net/libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css
2. Download the file, remove all flex-grow instructions from it and add the file as custom CSS to amiga.abime.net.

scifi · 22 July 2023, 20:54

My first impression is that it looks and it feels modernized, with a nice, clean-cut look, which I really like BTW, without losing the core idea of HOL's database creation. Yes, the old one has a more "8-bit" feel to it, which we all grew to love, but I think that in time we will all get used to the new version.

However, there are certain things that I don't like so far (or I haven't found a way to work around them, yet). When I go the scans' section, I cannot see anymore the actual scan, I only see a preview of it (smaller). And I do not have the capability of saving it to my computer, which is a drawback for me. Now, I don't know if this is a case of security, or it's just the way it is from now on.

My statistics are not accurate, since I have contributed to HOL in the past. But I guess, this is a matter of small bugs and glitches that should be straiten out in the near future, so I don't worry about that.

By using it, I may discover more bugs and I hope more useful changes.
Only time will tell... in general, it is a sincerely good effort.
I just feel that it has the potential to get better.

Bultro · 23 July 2023, 02:30

sorry, the new layout is terrible for me. No grid lines make bad readability, and there's a lot of wasted space, especially in the reviews.
If you enable an optional skin for the classic layout, I'll appreciate it.

yelworC · 24 July 2023, 16:43

I am not happy with these changes. Its not the design itself but the fact, that I used this site with IBrowse on my Amiga to get information about games. Old site worked great, new site is the css hell we all know and hate with our old browsers.

I understand there is a link to access the old site but without being updated in the future, this is not a very good option for me.

We really should have Amiga related websites that work with an Amiga browser.

Btw this text was written with IBrowse and I fear the moment in the future when this forum will get the same treatment as the great HOL site.

:-(

zimgr5 · 24 July 2023, 23:14

New HOL sucks. I hate it, and won't be using it.
I don't understand the trend of making everything sociamedia-like. It's dumb.
Original HOL is the only one to bring back nostalgia.

PiCiJi · 25 July 2023, 20:36

I like this much better than the old version, although the two shades of blue don't quite go together.
At current standard resolutions, the old HOL was squeezed far too small and uncomfortable to navigate. (e.g. search filters)
I think it would be good if larger screenshots were posted from now on and the old ones were exchanged for new ones from time to time.
A search over a period of time is still missing. e.g. show me all games between 1988 - 1990.

nujack · 25 July 2023, 21:26

The new site/interface is really crap. I don‘t like it and it‘s not useable on smartphones. What was the reason to change it?
KISS - Keep it simple stupid like the old Hall of Light. The old page was usable on real Amiga-systems/browsers and showed the related information in a clean and structured way. That‘s all what we need. Now it‘s overloaded with CSS-elements and on small displays you are more busy to scroll to the related information. I hope you bring the old interface back including all updates to motivate people like me to contribute new stuff in future.

gimbal · 26 July 2023, 00:52

I like the revamped UI, I'm not a fan of the blue color of the panels though. It's a little stock CSS Bootstrap, I feel like I've seen that exact shade of blue a million times already. Any other color besides blue, please.

I don't really see why the statistics need to be on the main page either taking up such an amount of screen real estate, it's not exactly swag that needs to be front and center. That can be hidden behind a menu page for those who are interested, which is definitely not going to be every time a person goes to HOL to do a search.

A panel with latest added or changed entries though... now that I would like to see if it is at all possible to implement.

redblade · 26 July 2023, 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

You can now still access old HOL here:

https://oldhol.abime.net [note: no longer updated]

I'll create a legacy skin for the new website and improve the new site with smaller fonts, better layout on game pages etc.

thank you for providing https://oldhol.abime.net, I've saved that to my book marks

modrobert · 26 July 2023, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

You can now still access old HOL here:

https://oldhol.abime.net [note: no longer updated]

I'll create a legacy skin for the new website and improve the new site with smaller fonts, better layout on game pages etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redblade

thank you for providing https://oldhol.abime.net, I've saved that to my book marks

The old HOL uses a database, the new HOL uses a database. What is the specific problem in letting both these coexist using the same database? If possible the old HOL can stay updated even if it doesn't have all the details new HOL provides.

mailman · 26 July 2023, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by modrobert

The old HOL uses a database, the new HOL uses a database. What is the specific problem in letting both these coexist using the same database? If possible the old HOL can stay updated even if it doesn't have all the details new HOL provides.

Your theory is correct only if the database is the same. Is it or is it not? :-)

CodyJarrett · 26 July 2023, 09:31

The database has been completely restructured to fit the Game->Version->Release model so that all the details appear on one game page. There was a migration process to convert the content to the new structure.

There were many other changes too including moving technical features (programming language etc.) out of Quickmatch into their own fields, creating readable URLs, splitting the DBSs and creating a new in-page editor for updates.

The old site was difficult to maintain as the database queries, code and presentation layer were mixed together.

TCD · 26 July 2023, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The old site was difficult to maintain as the database queries, code and presentation layer were mixed together.

Plus editing the some of the data wasn't exactly intuitive at times.

modrobert · 26 July 2023, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyJarrett

The database has been completely restructured to fit the Game->Version->Release model so that all the details appear on one game page. There was a migration process to convert the content to the new structure.

There were many other changes too including moving technical features (programming language etc.) out of Quickmatch into their own fields, creating readable URLs, splitting the DBSs and creating a new in-page editor for updates.

The old site was difficult to maintain as the database queries, code and presentation layer were mixed together.

OK, yes, the last part is a familiar problem (hitting close to home), e.g. html code (tags) stored directly in the DB tables. Thanks for clarifying.

22 July 2023, 16:42	#46
TCH Newbie Amiga programmer Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Front of my A500+ Age: 38 Posts: 372	In /libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css there is a class definition of Code: .col{-ms-flex-preferred-size:0;flex-basis:0;-ms-flex-positive:1;flex-grow:1;max-width:100%} In this definition flex-grow: 1 makes Opera 12.16 crash on game subpages. Last edited by TCH; 22 July 2023 at 16:50.

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22 July 2023, 16:21	#45
TCH Newbie Amiga programmer Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Front of my A500+ Age: 38 Posts: 372	It's amiga.abime.net/libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css which crashes Opera 12.16 on the games' subpages.

22 July 2023, 16:51	#47
TCH Newbie Amiga programmer Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Front of my A500+ Age: 38 Posts: 372	Workaround: 1. Blacklist *://amiga.abime.net/libraries/bootstrap/bootstrap-4.6.2-dist/css/bootstrap.min.css 2. Download the file, remove all flex-grow instructions from it and add the file as custom CSS to amiga.abime.net.

22 July 2023, 20:54	#48
scifi Resurrected... Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Athens/Greece Age: 50 Posts: 290	My first impression is that it looks and it feels modernized, with a nice, clean-cut look, which I really like BTW, without losing the core idea of HOL's database creation. Yes, the old one has a more "8-bit" feel to it, which we all grew to love, but I think that in time we will all get used to the new version. However, there are certain things that I don't like so far (or I haven't found a way to work around them, yet). When I go the scans' section, I cannot see anymore the actual scan, I only see a preview of it (smaller). And I do not have the capability of saving it to my computer, which is a drawback for me. Now, I don't know if this is a case of security, or it's just the way it is from now on. My statistics are not accurate, since I have contributed to HOL in the past. But I guess, this is a matter of small bugs and glitches that should be straiten out in the near future, so I don't worry about that. By using it, I may discover more bugs and I hope more useful changes. Only time will tell... in general, it is a sincerely good effort. I just feel that it has the potential to get better.

23 July 2023, 02:30	#49
Bultro Registered User Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Italy Posts: 3	sorry, the new layout is terrible for me. No grid lines make bad readability, and there's a lot of wasted space, especially in the reviews. If you enable an optional skin for the classic layout, I'll appreciate it.

24 July 2023, 16:43	#50
yelworC Registered User Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Germany Posts: 70	I am not happy with these changes. Its not the design itself but the fact, that I used this site with IBrowse on my Amiga to get information about games. Old site worked great, new site is the css hell we all know and hate with our old browsers. I understand there is a link to access the old site but without being updated in the future, this is not a very good option for me. We really should have Amiga related websites that work with an Amiga browser. Btw this text was written with IBrowse and I fear the moment in the future when this forum will get the same treatment as the great HOL site. :-(

24 July 2023, 23:14	#51
zimgr5 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dublin Posts: 35	New HOL sucks. I hate it, and won't be using it. I don't understand the trend of making everything sociamedia-like. It's dumb. Original HOL is the only one to bring back nostalgia.

25 July 2023, 20:36	#52
PiCiJi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: germany Age: 45 Posts: 407	I like this much better than the old version, although the two shades of blue don't quite go together. At current standard resolutions, the old HOL was squeezed far too small and uncomfortable to navigate. (e.g. search filters) I think it would be good if larger screenshots were posted from now on and the old ones were exchanged for new ones from time to time. A search over a period of time is still missing. e.g. show me all games between 1988 - 1990.

25 July 2023, 21:26	#53
nujack Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Leipzig/Germany Age: 49 Posts: 458	The new site/interface is really crap. I don‘t like it and it‘s not useable on smartphones. What was the reason to change it? KISS - Keep it simple stupid like the old Hall of Light. The old page was usable on real Amiga-systems/browsers and showed the related information in a clean and structured way. That‘s all what we need. Now it‘s overloaded with CSS-elements and on small displays you are more busy to scroll to the related information. I hope you bring the old interface back including all updates to motivate people like me to contribute new stuff in future.

26 July 2023, 00:52	#54
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,919	I like the revamped UI, I'm not a fan of the blue color of the panels though. It's a little stock CSS Bootstrap, I feel like I've seen that exact shade of blue a million times already. Any other color besides blue, please. I don't really see why the statistics need to be on the main page either taking up such an amount of screen real estate, it's not exactly swag that needs to be front and center. That can be hidden behind a menu page for those who are interested, which is definitely not going to be every time a person goes to HOL to do a search. A panel with latest added or changed entries though... now that I would like to see if it is at all possible to implement.

26 July 2023, 09:31	#58
CodyJarrett Global Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: UK Age: 46 Posts: 6,160	The database has been completely restructured to fit the Game->Version->Release model so that all the details appear on one game page. There was a migration process to convert the content to the new structure. There were many other changes too including moving technical features (programming language etc.) out of Quickmatch into their own fields, creating readable URLs, splitting the DBSs and creating a new in-page editor for updates. The old site was difficult to maintain as the database queries, code and presentation layer were mixed together.

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