Tiny Bobble Beta Released - A new Bubble Bobble arcade port

[coldacid]

Originally Posted by ross

Music tempo is tied to VBI..
So you are always in 'hurry mode'.

Originally Posted by DamienD

...and when it is actually "Hurry Up!!" you are now in Super Hurry Up!! mode

That's what I was afraid of!

[ross]

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Yeah I tried it on WinUAE with A1000 emulation and it was fine there. So seems to be an issue with the old NTSC 1000.

Originally Posted by TjLaZer

Play testing the Ross NTSC version on my NTSC A1000. Has 512k chip and 1MB Fast.

I cannot replicate on emulation, I have tried many A1000 combinations in WinUAE and nothing to do.. no glitches visible as in your videos.
And the interesting thing is that the other NTSC machines work as expected, so it seems that the issues are because an A1000 hardware difference.
It appears that some (copper) blitter waits are not honored or some blitter clear are not executed (by different start time or different setup?).
If Toni is interested I can send him the executable.

Are there on board other users with old Amiga 1000 NTSC?

[TjLaZer]

Originally Posted by ross

Are there on board other users with old Amiga 1000 NTSC?

I know a few people that do, one lives near me. I can have him try it on his machine if that is ok.

[kalu666]

the secret stages (lv 20 without die), will be implemented? it is already a huge work, but i hope you can add that levels soon. Also in the old C64 version are present.

[Predseda]

I have completed the game today with my son in 2ply mode. There are unlimited credits and water bubble bug, but the game can be completed and that is the most important.

[mrupp]

Originally Posted by DamienD

The problem with this icon is that it was created in OS 3.9 and in a non-standard format.

On my "Classic WB Lite 3.1" .HDF, all I see is a dot:



If you're going to make an icon, you should make sure that it's compatible across all OSs, and not reliant on GlowIcons or any other third party add-ons.

Plus is there really a need for an icon on an .ADF?

Usually you'd just load the trainer followed by the game...

Alright, alright... here's an improved version containing planar images as well:
aYs_TinyBobble.info

Here's a preview of the icon showing how it looks with plain OS 3.1 and the same icon with OS 3.9, each normal and in selected state:



Is it needed?
Yes, I thing it's nice to have an icon, especially if you'd like to install it to HD. Simply insert the ADF and drag the icon to your HD. The icon type is set to 'Shell' & 'wait-for-input=false', so you'll still see the Shell ouptput before it starts.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by kalu666

the secret stages (lv 20 without die), will be implemented?

People keep asking this, read the .NFO on the .ADF; specifically:

"Tiny Bobble" is not(!) arcade perfect. It's also easier than in the arcade.
Most scoring mechanisms should work like in the arcade game. There are no
secret rooms.

Also, like I mentioned previously:

Originally Posted by DamienD

pink has already said that this secret is not included in Tiny Bobble.

...same as level 30, level 40 without loosing lives i.e no doors as described here: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Bubble...e/Secret_rooms

These are a bit pointless anyway; as they just provide more information on decrypting codes needed for "Super Bubble Bobble".

[mrupp]

And here's another one that works with the OS 1.x palette (planar data only):
aYs_TinyBobble.OS1.info

Preview:

[pink^abyss]

Originally Posted by mrupp

And here's another one that works with the OS 1.x palette (planar data only):
Attachment 68714

Preview:

I like that

[Toni Wilen]

My "almost PAL" A1000 also have similar glitches. ("almost" because Agnus is PAL but main crystal is NTSC. Early PAL A1000s had this weird config)

I guess the problem is A1000 Agnus blitter busy bug. Possibly only happens when system also has real fast RAM (I had ACA500plus connected).

Does the game also use CPU blitter waits or are all blitter operations in copper list? Perhaps the bug also affects copper waits, at least in some situations.

I'll do more detailed debugging later..

[TjLaZer]

Tested the game on my NTSC A500 OCS 512k chip and 512k slow fast and it runs well. No sprite glitches at all. So only a 1000 problem it seems.

[Toni Wilen]

It is not fast ram related. 0.5 chip+0.5 slow (ACA500plus in "cloaking mode") also have same glitches.

MOVE $8240 to DMACON in copper list looks suspicious. Where and how does blitter DMA get disabled? It could break copper blitter wait if it gets disabled almost immediately after BLTSIZE write.

[ross]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

It is not fast ram related. 0.5 chip+0.5 slow (ACA500plus in "cloaking mode") also have same glitches.

MOVE $8240 to DMACON in copper list looks suspicious. Where and how does blitter DMA get disabled? It could break copper blitter wait if it gets disabled almost immediately after BLTSIZE write.

Ok, I traced the code.
Is disabled before copper prt refresh near last video line and then immediately re-enabled.
pink maybe inserted it to make sure that the copper pointer is updated in any situation?
But that's anyway, since the blitter isn't in nasty mode...

Probably yes, is dangerous.
Could this break the double BFD wait chain in copper list and expose the old Agnus bug?

EDIT: there is also a copper trigger that is suspicious..
I'll make an updated version soon, stay tuned

[sanjyuubi]

Originally Posted by kalu666

the secret stages (lv 20 without die), will be implemented? it is already a huge work, but i hope you can add that levels soon. Also in the old C64 version are present.

Yeah, i mentioned it in another thread, those are the last pieces left i think to become fully unneuterd masterpiece on par with arcade version or even beyond.

These are a bit pointless anyway; as they just provide more information on decrypting codes needed for "Super Bubble Bobble".

It seems like a lazy explanation to me, there were no decrypting codes on C64, it's just like a bonus stage with a lot of points and it skips one stage, a nice reward. If we would argue on what is pointless in this game or not, i would say that EXTENDED animated screen is more pointless than a secret rooms. If grinding the lazily done jewel to extract it's most potential gloss and glitter, why stop few steps before the goal? If you would be into jewels craftsmanship, wouldn't it leave you with a shred of dissatisfaction?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by sanjyuubi

It seems like a lazy explanation to me, there were no decrypting codes on C64, it's just like a bonus stage with a lot of points and it skips one stage, a nice reward. If we would argue on what is pointless in this game or not, i would say that EXTENDED animated screen is more pointless than a secret rooms. If grinding the lazily done jewel to extract it's most potential gloss and glitter, why stop few steps before the goal? If you would be into jewels craftsmanship, wouldn't it leave you with a shred of dissatisfaction?

You can disagree with what I've said, and try to re-gloss using all the different analogies you can think of... but it won't change the fact that pink has now finished the game, and already said numerous times in thread and the .NFO:

"Tiny Bobble" is not(!) arcade perfect. It's also easier than in the arcade.
Most scoring mechanisms should work like in the arcade game. There are no
secret rooms.

Just deal with it

[sanjyuubi]

I can deal with it, but even though i appreciate pink^abbyss laid a finger on this remake, i can't understand why some stuff was omited, especially when he did this on his own will and nobody was pushing him with the release(?) It's not like the time or technicals were the limitations or am i wrong?

It doesn't have to be arcade perfect, pink's aptitude can take it beyond.

[quantum8]

Well i've lost far too much time on this today.

Certainly a winner!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by sanjyuubi

am i wrong?

Yes, you are.
He can do (or not) whatever the hell he wants. Simple as that. It's his game.

Now go make your own and wow us all, or crawl back into the cave you came from.

[pink^abyss]

Originally Posted by ross

Ok, I traced the code.
Is disabled before copper prt refresh near last video line and then immediately re-enabled.
pink maybe inserted it to make sure that the copper pointer is updated in any situation?
But that's anyway, since the blitter isn't in nasty mode...

Probably yes, is dangerous.
Could this break the double BFD wait chain in copper list and expose the old Agnus bug?

EDIT: there is also a copper trigger that is suspicious..
I'll make an updated version soon, stay tuned

Perhaps its the Blitter waits in the copper list. Tiny Bobble uses two blitter waits. I tried on A500 and found two waits were needed to be stable. Another user claimed he needed even 3 waits to be compatible with all hardware... perhaps A1000 needs 3 waits when you blit from copper list while 5 planes DMA is active.

[Jobbo]

Pink
How do you handle the copper blit list taking more than one frame? Since the copper will get reset to cop1lc each vbl regardless. Could the corruption be from an incomplete run of a blit list? Also this would need different handling for NTSC. So I would expect to see more cases of corruption running at 60hz if it’s not explicitly handled.