OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter) with an Amiga

[Retro-Nerd]

They first called it "inferior", but obviously they got a KAICO test model later and changed their opinion. They should have done it in the first place. Probably more pissed that they still copy their user guide and some other minor stuff.

https://videogameperfection.com/2019...bootleg-osscs/

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by demolition

Define 'fake'. They are open source and the license permits anyone to make them, but the quality may obviously vary. The original version however, is only sold through https://videogameperfection.com/prod...can-converter/.

As in Chinese knockoffs. Just wondering as I thought it was one guy made them just.

[rabidgerry]

Just I got one for £100 off ebay. The guy said he bought from amazon. So how will I know if it's legit or not?

Seems it may not matter though if the knockoffs are decent enough quality.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Probably more pissed that they still copy their user guide and some other minor stuff.

Which is fair enough if you ask me. They made it open source so others could do something with it, but stating that their copy is an original (as they did by copying the manual) is not okay no matter if it is done well or not.

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Just I got one for £100 off ebay. The guy said he bought from amazon. So how will I know if it's legit or not?

Seems it may not matter though if the knockoffs are decent enough quality.

If it came from Amazon it is not an original. But it seems that the Kaico ones are decent quality. Don't know if they have written this anywhere on the unit but in any case, yes if it works well enough for you then it doesn't really matter.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by demolition

Which is fair enough if you ask me. They made it open source so others could do something with it, but stating that their copy is an original (as they did by copying the manual) is not okay no matter if it is done well or not.


If it came from Amazon it is not an original. But it seems that the Kaico ones are decent quality. Don't know if they have written this anywhere on the unit but in any case, yes if it works well enough for you then it doesn't really matter.

How would I know if it is Kaico?

Also on the manual it says revision 1b, how old is that?

To connect I just use a standard RGB to scart cable?

[-Acid-]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

How would I know if it is Kaico?

It comes in a nice Kaico branded box with good inserts to hold the OSSC in place and has a very good quality printed user guide with it assuming the seller is sending you those. Can't see any actual markings on the OSSC to say it is a Kaico model though.

[demolition]

Does it say Kaico in the display like it does on all the pictures? And if it does, then I guess that may disappear if you update the FW using one of the original FWs?

Also, does the original come with other cover colors than black? Kaico makes them in all sorts of fancy colors: link

[-Acid-]

Originally Posted by demolition

Does it say Kaico in the display like it does on all the pictures? And if it does, then I guess that may disappear if you update the FW using one of the original FWs?

Also, does the original come with other cover colors than black? Kaico makes them in all sorts of fancy colors: link

The plastic on mine is black and it does not display Kaico on the LCD (I had to switch it on to check this lol). I'm running the firmware it came with so if it ever did do that then it was on an earlier firmware version than what they are shipping now.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by demolition

Does it say Kaico in the display like it does on all the pictures? And if it does, then I guess that may disappear if you update the FW using one of the original FWs?

Also, does the original come with other cover colors than black? Kaico makes them in all sorts of fancy colors: link

I aint got it yet so when I do I will let ya know.

In the guy's photos on ebay he didn't have it switched on. The manual looks legit and says revision 1b on it.

Have any benefits been made from the upgraded firmware? Have any of you upgraded yours?

[rare_j]

There have been loads of new features with each firmware. So it's well worth updating, and only takes a few minutes to do anyway.
Did you get a remote? It's worth getting one of those as well.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by rare_j

There have been loads of new features with each firmware. So it's well worth updating, and only takes a few minutes to do anyway.
Did you get a remote? It's worth getting one of those as well.

Gotta remote yes indeed!

Have a question, has anyone ever got those vertical bars in their display whilst using the OSSC? These F**king things are the bane of my existence I tell you!

If I use my RGB>Scart cable into my tv (nothing in between) I get solid picture no vertical bars. But It's not the greatest picture I have ever seen. It's acceptable but could be better.

But I use for example my GBS8220 with GBS Control firmware I get really pristine display and better than the scart display, sharper, richer colour but there are vertical bars/banding. I used to think it was GBS but I don't think it is now. Apparently something to do with sync timings. Get the same thing with two different Amigas btw. Obviously the GBS goes in via VGA input on my TV so perhaps the TV and VGA timings are different, I dunno

So I was just wondering if there were features on the OSSC that can eliminate such artefacts should they be an problem?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Have a question, has anyone ever got those vertical bars in their display whilst using the OSSC? These F**king things are the bane of my existence I tell you!

If I use my RGB>Scart cable into my tv (nothing in between) I get solid picture no vertical bars. But It's not the greatest picture I have ever seen. It's acceptable but could be better.

But I use for example my GBS8220 with GBS Control firmware I get really pristine display and better than the scart display, sharper, richer colour but there are vertical bars/banding.

If the signal is not sampled with the correct sample rate, you could see an interference pattern which will look like vertical bars. It will be very noticeable if you have a checker-pattern background.
If you apply a low-pass filter you can reduce this effect but obviously then you will lose sharpness - I guess this is what your TV does. The most correct solution is to use the proper sampling rate as well as phase (offset) - then you will have perfect sharpness and no interference patterns. This will however require some adjustments and is usually not just plug and play. With the OSSC you can definitely achieve this if you enter the advanced sampling menu and adjust those items, in particular 'h. sample rate' and phase.

Here's some explanation about this interference: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/phasexplan.html

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by demolition

If the signal is not sampled with the correct sample rate, you could see an interference pattern which will look like vertical bars. It will be very noticeable if you have a checker-pattern background.
If you apply a low-pass filter you can reduce this effect but obviously then you will lose sharpness - I guess this is what your TV does. The most correct solution is to use the proper sampling rate as well as phase (offset) - then you will have perfect sharpness and no interference patterns. This will however require some adjustments and is usually not just plug and play. With the OSSC you can definitely achieve this if you enter the advanced sampling menu and adjust those items, in particular 'h. sample rate' and phase.

Here's some explanation about this interference: http://www.techmind.org/lcd/phasexplan.html

So it arrived yesterday and it seems quite good. Going to say however though that not sure it's better than GBS with the GBS Control.

I'm running the RGB>Scart into the OSSC. First thing I've noticed is I can't get it to go full screen. I can get quite large but still large black areas on my screen.

The lines I am talking about before don't seem to so strong. Perhaps messing with controls like you mention @demolition will sort this completely. They are barely noticeable as it is, perhaps 90% gone.

Where it doesn't seem quite as good as GBS is it has ever so slightly a little bit of "ghosting". The sort of thing you notice more with letters on the screen. The kind of thing you would have had issues with back in the day running crappy composite into you old CRT tv/monitor. That's what it reminds me off. Perhaps this will also be resolved by settings adjustment. There of course is a lot of settings I have no clue about so I will need to read the manual (hopefully there is a more detailed manual online).

Colour seems really good and it is razor sharp. Almost too sharp with some settings. I'm using on a Sharpe 32" lcd tv btw.

I like the remote and the overall design of the unit itself.

I have a commodore RGB to VGA adapter, is it worth using this to connect via VGA? It's the model 390682-01 which I believe is the buffered version.

[demolition]

There are pros and cons whether to use the VGA or SCART input. In general, SCART may be preferred since it has some low pass filters that may be useful (to make the image a bit softer). On VGA, those filters are not available. VGA on the other hand uses H+V sync where SCART uses composite sync and the latter may be a bit harder to get a perfectly stable signal (but with a good cable it should work fine).
If adjusted correctly, the OSSC is pixel-perfect which I don't think the GBS will ever be, so the OSSC can provide a much better picture, although it takes some effort to get there. The black borders can also be dealt with, but the best setting really depends on the monitor that you are using. If you are using a 1080p monitor for example, then Line4x mode will scale 270 input lines (1080/4) to fill your screen while Line5x will scale 216 input lines to match the full screen. Since many games only take up 200 lines, Line5x may be nice for 1080p screens, however for 320x256 games (or WB) you need to drop to a Line4x mode to be able to see the full screen. Remember that on a real CRT monitor you also had massive black areas with most games.

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

I'm using on a Sharpe 32" lcd tv btw.

There is a pretty good chance that this Sharp TV will display your Amiga picture via a VGA cable. Have you tried this? Just with RGB2VGA adapter. No other expensive dingledongles.

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by demolition

There are pros and cons whether to use the VGA or SCART input. In general, SCART may be preferred since it has some low pass filters that may be useful (to make the image a bit softer). On VGA, those filters are not available. VGA on the other hand uses H+V sync where SCART uses composite sync and the latter may be a bit harder to get a perfectly stable signal (but with a good cable it should work fine).
If adjusted correctly, the OSSC is pixel-perfect which I don't think the GBS will ever be, so the OSSC can provide a much better picture, although it takes some effort to get there. The black borders can also be dealt with, but the best setting really depends on the monitor that you are using. If you are using a 1080p monitor for example, then Line4x mode will scale 270 input lines (1080/4) to fill your screen while Line5x will scale 216 input lines to match the full screen. Since many games only take up 200 lines, Line5x may be nice for 1080p screens, however for 320x256 games (or WB) you need to drop to a Line4x mode to be able to see the full screen. Remember that on a real CRT monitor you also had massive black areas with most games.

Have you ever used the GBS with the GBS Control firmware?

Ok well I guess it is going to take some time to set up right the OSSC. Willing to put the time in to do this obviously.................otherwise it's getting sold !

When I tried the VGA route using my commodore adapter it was horrendous. Insane vertical lines. Is this because that adapter is buffered?

Yes the black borders are when I am at the workbench screen, I wasn't even talking about when games where playing. And of course in that instance there will generally be border etc. But I expected at the least to have my workbench screen full and at least in the centre.

My TV is 720p btw.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

There is a pretty good chance that this Sharp TV will display your Amiga picture via a VGA cable. Have you tried this? Just with RGB2VGA adapter. No other expensive dingledongles.

I think I might have actually. Before I did not have the capability to do so and been using the GBS with GBS control. Has to be mentioned that GBS without GBS Control are worlds apart. Even at best I had the GBS by itself decent enough. I mean really good compared to when I was using the composite. But it truly went into a another level once I got me an arduino board and downloaded the firmware for it to over ride the GBS onboard firmware.

Ok mid typing this I went and tested without

expensive dingledongles

. It didn't work by itself.

[Mixel]

You can make workbench full screen most likely? Might need to increase the overscan settings.. I can easily get mine full screen anyway? (Though my screen is 1080p) - presumably you don’t want it to literally be full screen widescreen anyway though on normal Amiga modes as they’re supposed to be 4;3, so there should be big black bars at the side.. or your games will be stretched horribly...?

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

Ok mid typing this I went and tested without . It didn't work by itself.

That's too bad
My Sharp gives a beautiful picture via VGA.


What is the model of your TV?

[rabidgerry]

Originally Posted by Mixel

You can make workbench full screen most likely? Might need to increase the overscan settings.. I can easily get mine full screen anyway? (Though my screen is 1080p) - presumably you don’t want it to literally be full screen widescreen anyway though on normal Amiga modes as they’re supposed to be 4;3, so there should be big black bars at the side.. or your games will be stretched horribly...?

I hadn't thought about that actually. What way would the games turn out then? Will the be in the centre?

I'm used to the GBS 8220 and GBS Control. You make a screen size and if it doesn't fit exactly then you can custom fit it. Or else you can move the screen in whatever direction you need to.

I need more time with the OSSC.

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

That's too bad
My Sharp gives a beautiful picture via VGA.


What is the model of your TV?

My model is Sharpe Sharp LC32SH130


You seem to be the man with LCD tvs The reason I was looking at 15khz monitors btw on the other thread is because I will be needing something else for my other Amiga once I move house. So one using a TV and the other using a monitor.

[Mixel]

Originally Posted by rabidgerry

I hadn't thought about that actually. What way would the games turn out then? Will the be in the centre?

I'm used to the GBS 8220 and GBS Control. You make a screen size and if it doesn't fit exactly then you can custom fit it. Or else you can move the screen in whatever direction you need to.

I need more time with the OSSC.

When I play games they’re centred and generally full screen vertically (with some exceptions as some games had different sized black borders at the bottom) but with black bars to the left and right. you can sort of move the screen around on the OSSC but it’s a bit of a pain and means messing with a bunch of settings.