Will 3D ever become retro? - Page 4

Mr Creosote · 15 February 2003, 14:27

Forgot to mention it before: MS-DOS games are considered 'non-native' on today's Windows XP infested systems by most people. The hardware of PCs has changed so much that it is considered a different system by now, too. DOS-emulators are one of the most requested types of programs at the moment. Again, these games meet all the requirements mentioned.

Unknown_K · 15 February 2003, 14:59

Thats why I have 2 dos boxes to run the software on the best dos hardware available

386/40 32mb and a p200mmx 64mb with assorted vintage cards such as gravis ultrasound, sb pro 2, sb16, etc

Amiga1992 · 20 February 2003, 20:51

aye, for those who think VR will be the next thing, here's the site of some really cool VR R&Ders

http://vr.iao.fhg.de/index.en.html

IanS · 21 February 2003, 09:38

Unreal 2 projected on to a 20 foot screen... now that would be my kind of virtual reality

Amiga1992 · 21 February 2003, 13:55

pfffff

IanS · 21 February 2003, 15:43

Would that be "pfffff" the magic dragon?

"VR" is another gimmick that probably won't take off for a long, long time. Meanwhile, millions of people play in a virtual reality every day, whether it's on a high spec PC or a lowly 8 bit doorstop from the 1980's.

Akira, anybody would think that you don't like first person shooters!

Mind you Unreal 2 isn't that good. Average at best.

Amiga1992 · 21 February 2003, 18:19

I'm actually talking about VR being utilized in productive ways, not as some stupid FPS game toy.
They have a very cool database navigation system done with VR.

Anyway... we will never agree, I think

Twistin'Ghost · 22 February 2003, 01:09

The only thing VR about Unreal 2 is the 'virtual' part...

IanS · 24 February 2003, 18:11

I stand by my view that VR is a gimmick that will not take off in a big way, whether for "productive ways"" or in "some stupid FPS game toy". The idea has been around for years, and apart from the being portrayed in a few sci fi series, VR hasn't taken found any major uses.

And from what I recall Akira, you like a few of those "stupid game toy" things yourself, even if they're not FPS. Good job we're not all the same eh?

Twistin'... which bit of the alternate reality in Unreal 2 (or any other 3D game) isn't actually a reality then? I can't wait to see the answer to this one

Mind you, Unreal 2 is still only average. The ending is crap.

Amiga1992 · 24 February 2003, 18:16

Quote:

Originally posted by IanS
And from what I recall Akira, you like a few of those "stupid game toy" things yourself, even if they're not FPS.

Which toys?

If you read the whole thread, I say VR is quite a no-go, IMO. But these guys' R&D was interesting. I'm not saying "DIZ IZ IT, DA THING, IT OWNZ J00" blah blah

IanS · 24 February 2003, 19:16

Ok Akira, I'll just rummage through some of your other posts and see which particular games you like and on which platforms etc. It might take a while.

By the way... "DIZ IZ IT, DA THING, IT OWNZ J00". I think this means your keyboard is seriously defective, 'cos it looks like a cross between English, German one too many alcoholic beverages!

Point taken my man. I stand corrected on your VR position. Please forgive me, and may I rot in hell for eternity for my erronius ways.

Amiga1992 · 24 February 2003, 21:35

Ahh you mean game consoles! Yes I do like them

Rot in hell you puny human! I actually was saying that I agree with you that VR is a gimmick ;P

IanS · 24 February 2003, 22:00

The only pure game console I've ever really used was an Atari VCS. Ain't that sad? I like the look of that new Gameboy advance with the clamshell(?) design. Something else on my wish list. Along with an Apple G4, Sony Clie NX70V and a Lotus Elise.

Amiga1992 · 24 February 2003, 22:59

You want nothing, eh? ;D

Twistin'Ghost · 25 February 2003, 00:32

Quote:

Originally posted by IanS
Twistin'... which bit of the alternate reality in Unreal 2 (or any other 3D game) isn't actually a reality then? I can't wait to see the answer to this one

Don't read too much into that.

1) I was referring to VR, not AR.
2) Games of this genre like to fancy themselves as realistic (hence, reality) and in the reality *I* exist in, nothing looks, feels, sounds, etc. like anything I have seen in this game. I hate seeing modern games described as realistic. The characters' movements are robotic and goofy, expressions are fake and static, floors and walls are blurry and/or jaggy, the perspectives when looking around (especially up and down) are dizzying and awkward, the sound is overly enhanced and extreme on the bass woofers - is this reality?
3) Are these games reality for you, other than the fact that you are really sitting there playing them? If the latter, than Pac-Man is VR.

IanS · 25 February 2003, 16:09

I'd say they are as much a reality as any VR mockup of say a new building or other model, whether it's a serious application, or a game. If we follow your argument, then you couldn't call any VR 'reality' either. Have you ever seen VR that feels absolutely 'real'?

I have never said that games feel like real life, but they create a reality that your character inhabits. So did the old text adventures up to a point. A virtual relaity doesn't even need to be a graphical one. FPS games and RPG's etc draw YOU into a reality that YOU, by and large control, by BECOMING that character. I've never been the Pacman, but I've controlled him. A subtle difference perhaps, but that's the way I see it.

I thought that is why they are VIRTUAL realites?

Twistin'Ghost · 25 February 2003, 17:39

Hey, all I was doing was explaining why I didn't perceive Unreal 2 as virtual reality. We could quibble forever over the aesthetics of VR, but I'm no theologist on the subject. Just explaining why calling it VR is lame (to me).

IanS · 25 February 2003, 17:54

Sorry Twistin'

I get carried away. I lead a sad, lonely and introspective life, and I vent my frustrations in this forum!

I certainly agree that the 3D is a long way from being realistic, especially the characters. Mind you... in Unreal 2, that Aida wasn't half bad you know!

Did I mention that apart from the graphics, it's basically crap? (IMHO of course).

I'll shut up now. Honest.

Twistin'Ghost · 25 February 2003, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by IanS
Sorry Twistin'

I get carried away. I lead a sad, lonely and introspective life, and I vent my frustrations in this forum!

I certainly agree that the 3D is a long way from being realistic, especially the characters. Mind you... in Unreal 2, that Aida wasn't half bad you know!

Did I mention that apart from the graphics, it's basically crap? (IMHO of course).

I'll shut up now. Honest.

spiff · 25 March 2003, 00:37

Creosote said it.. the games you "grow up" with are the ones that goes retro...

For 3d, STUN runner (arcade) already is retro marked for me.. and its older then much of the amiga stuff.

Along the same lines I believe that the first good game you play in a genre is the one that gets the retro mark. Once you've played enough games and you start noticing reuse of ideas, the game that had that idea first is the game becomes the retro game eventually.

I see how ppl swear by the genius of lode runner or frogger… or the great playability of this and that MSX game…
to me they are just annoying. I never owned the system, and for all those games I can pick a better one on “my” system.

GODS is as good as it can get in platform puzzler for me, and my kid brother would whip out a copy of castelavania Bloodlines on PSX and laugh..
Castel does everything better, but for me it hasn’t got that “feeling”.. I’ve played it all before. In the same perspective Lode runner may be recognized for being the first platform puzzler, and bloodlines the best.. GODS was just some crap along the way for all my bro would care.

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15 February 2003, 14:27	#61
Mr Creosote Evil Mastermind Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Home Posts: 740	Forgot to mention it before: MS-DOS games are considered 'non-native' on today's Windows XP infested systems by most people. The hardware of PCs has changed so much that it is considered a different system by now, too. DOS-emulators are one of the most requested types of programs at the moment. Again, these games meet all the requirements mentioned.

15 February 2003, 14:59	#62
Unknown_K Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio/USA Age: 55 Posts: 1,380	Thats why I have 2 dos boxes to run the software on the best dos hardware available 386/40 32mb and a p200mmx 64mb with assorted vintage cards such as gravis ultrasound, sb pro 2, sb16, etc

20 February 2003, 20:51	#63
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	aye, for those who think VR will be the next thing, here's the site of some really cool VR R&Ders http://vr.iao.fhg.de/index.en.html

21 February 2003, 09:38	#64
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	Unreal 2 projected on to a 20 foot screen... now that would be my kind of virtual reality

21 February 2003, 13:55	#65
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	pfffff

21 February 2003, 15:43	#66
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	Would that be "pfffff" the magic dragon? "VR" is another gimmick that probably won't take off for a long, long time. Meanwhile, millions of people play in a virtual reality every day, whether it's on a high spec PC or a lowly 8 bit doorstop from the 1980's. Akira, anybody would think that you don't like first person shooters! Mind you Unreal 2 isn't that good. Average at best.

21 February 2003, 18:19	#67
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I'm actually talking about VR being utilized in productive ways, not as some stupid FPS game toy. They have a very cool database navigation system done with VR. Anyway... we will never agree, I think

22 February 2003, 01:09	#68
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	The only thing VR about Unreal 2 is the 'virtual' part...

24 February 2003, 18:11	#69
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	I stand by my view that VR is a gimmick that will not take off in a big way, whether for "productive ways"" or in "some stupid FPS game toy". The idea has been around for years, and apart from the being portrayed in a few sci fi series, VR hasn't taken found any major uses. And from what I recall Akira, you like a few of those "stupid game toy" things yourself, even if they're not FPS. Good job we're not all the same eh? Twistin'... which bit of the alternate reality in Unreal 2 (or any other 3D game) isn't actually a reality then? I can't wait to see the answer to this one Mind you, Unreal 2 is still only average. The ending is crap.

24 February 2003, 19:16	#71
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	Ok Akira, I'll just rummage through some of your other posts and see which particular games you like and on which platforms etc. It might take a while. By the way... "DIZ IZ IT, DA THING, IT OWNZ J00". I think this means your keyboard is seriously defective, 'cos it looks like a cross between English, German one too many alcoholic beverages! Point taken my man. I stand corrected on your VR position. Please forgive me, and may I rot in hell for eternity for my erronius ways.

24 February 2003, 21:35	#72
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Ahh you mean game consoles! Yes I do like them Rot in hell you puny human! I actually was saying that I agree with you that VR is a gimmick ;P

24 February 2003, 22:00	#73
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	The only pure game console I've ever really used was an Atari VCS. Ain't that sad? I like the look of that new Gameboy advance with the clamshell(?) design. Something else on my wish list. Along with an Apple G4, Sony Clie NX70V and a Lotus Elise.

24 February 2003, 22:59	#74
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	You want nothing, eh? ;D

25 February 2003, 16:09	#76
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	I'd say they are as much a reality as any VR mockup of say a new building or other model, whether it's a serious application, or a game. If we follow your argument, then you couldn't call any VR 'reality' either. Have you ever seen VR that feels absolutely 'real'? I have never said that games feel like real life, but they create a reality that your character inhabits. So did the old text adventures up to a point. A virtual relaity doesn't even need to be a graphical one. FPS games and RPG's etc draw YOU into a reality that YOU, by and large control, by BECOMING that character. I've never been the Pacman, but I've controlled him. A subtle difference perhaps, but that's the way I see it. I thought that is why they are VIRTUAL realites?

25 February 2003, 17:39	#77
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	Hey, all I was doing was explaining why I didn't perceive Unreal 2 as virtual reality. We could quibble forever over the aesthetics of VR, but I'm no theologist on the subject. Just explaining why calling it VR is lame (to me).

25 February 2003, 17:54	#78
IanS Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nottingham England Posts: 277	Sorry Twistin' I get carried away. I lead a sad, lonely and introspective life, and I vent my frustrations in this forum! I certainly agree that the 3D is a long way from being realistic, especially the characters. Mind you... in Unreal 2, that Aida wasn't half bad you know! Did I mention that apart from the graphics, it's basically crap? (IMHO of course). I'll shut up now. Honest.

25 March 2003, 00:37	#80
spiff Oh noes! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Neverland Posts: 766	Creosote said it.. the games you "grow up" with are the ones that goes retro... For 3d, STUN runner (arcade) already is retro marked for me.. and its older then much of the amiga stuff. Along the same lines I believe that the first good game you play in a genre is the one that gets the retro mark. Once you've played enough games and you start noticing reuse of ideas, the game that had that idea first is the game becomes the retro game eventually. I see how ppl swear by the genius of lode runner or frogger… or the great playability of this and that MSX game… to me they are just annoying. I never owned the system, and for all those games I can pick a better one on “my” system. GODS is as good as it can get in platform puzzler for me, and my kid brother would whip out a copy of castelavania Bloodlines on PSX and laugh.. Castel does everything better, but for me it hasn’t got that “feeling”.. I’ve played it all before. In the same perspective Lode runner may be recognized for being the first platform puzzler, and bloodlines the best.. GODS was just some crap along the way for all my bro would care.

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