Qwak - does it *really* have protection?

[MethodGit]

Just a small question to ask: does Qwak really have any disk protection at all?

I remember imaging my Qwak original with disk2fdi and it worked like an absolute charm in WinUAE - no gurus/crashes, bizarre behaviour or anything. So why do I see the game's name among Codetapper's list of RNC-protected games?

[Codetapper]

There is no copy protection in Qwak.

Qwak uses Rob Northen's standard loading system which is probably why he included it in the interview on theAction website.

[andreas]

Well Codetapper, you've got the fucking right to make reproaches of various kinds triggered by all those things Marz has said and done recently and in the past, but this time HE IS RIGHT. This is indeed confusing as hell. Why? Because the list starts in fact with

Amiga games that use the Rob Northen Copylock Protection System:

<nitpicking mode>
If a game does not use the Copylock PS, it's out of place and thus shouldn't belong in this list, should it?
</nitpicking mode>

This means everyone's got the right to assume that a game listed there does use Copylock. Just my 0.02 euro(s).

[jmmijo]

If I remember correctly, the RNC loader is in fact two separate systems or layers if you will.

The first being the fast disk loader routines, the second is the disk based copy protection routines.

I suppose that a publisher could opt to pay for only the loader system for faster disk loading times and not have to spend the extra for the copy protection.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this one Codetapper.

Yes I too believe the wording should be clarified as well, perhaps a sub-list under RNC or something.

[Codetapper]

Rob Northen provided me with that list of titles and I am not going to go through and verify that over 500 games indeed have copy protection just so the list is 100% accurate!

The only 2 I know of which are wrong are Qwak and Licence to Kill. Every original I have seen of Licence to Kill (3 versions) has the copylock code already bypassed so although it is in there, it isn't ever run hence it's unprotected.

Perhaps Rob Northen created a copylock for those 2 games but Team 17 either deliberately or mistakenly didn't include it? I really don't know.

If someone wants to search their collection (searching "onz" in ascii usually yields a copylock unless the game has compressed all data), then by all means go for it!

As for pricing, I have no idea if using Rob's loading routines and no copylock is cheaper than just using his loaders.

[jmmijo]

@Codetapper,
I understand this, I was not aware that RNC had been installed and used in so many games. If you want, I can review the list of games that include RNC and see which ones actually use both the loader and copy protection.

Now of course I would need the list in order to get started.

[Twistin'Ghost]

Originally posted by jmmijo
Now of course I would need the list in order to get started.

Just click on the WWW button under Codetapper's reply above and that will take you to his site where the Rob Northen interview is. That list is at the end of the interview.

[jmmijo]

Thanks Twistin, I'll do that right now

[jmmijo]

@Twistin,
Just pulled a local copy of the RNC interview page. It was a great read and I emailed Codetapper that I would update him with my findings, if he wants me to that is.

Thanks again for the info

[MethodGit]

Another question I felt like asking:

So the original commercial version of Blob has copy protection, right?

But does the Amiga Power version also have disk protection?

[Codetapper]

Marz: You could work out the answers to half of your questions out if you sat down and actually did something rather than posting questions all the time!

Why not copy the coverdisk to a blank disk and try running the game from that backup? If it works, it's probably not protected (unless some sneaky protection and/or crashes later). If it doesn't work, it has protection.

Also try searching for "ONZ" in ascii like I suggested in another thread which is the start of the copylock code.

Simple.

[Galahad/FLT]

Rob Northen charged people to use ANY of his tools.

If you used Copylock, you paid
If you used his sector loader, you paid
If you used his PDOS loader, you paid.

Even Propack, you paid for.

Rob Northens AmigaDOS Sector loader enables you to access disks on $200 byte offsets, is a fast disk system and also has in built save functions, hence why everyone used it.

Also compatible with most processors, very rare is it that Robs loaders were at fault on games that refused to work on AGA Amiga's.

Quak was a budget game, so to keep the cost down on something that would be cracked in seconds, Team 17 opted to not bother with copy protection. Using PDOS was out of the question because the size of the game was smaller than a standard AmigaDOS disk, therefore it would be VERY small in comparison to a PDOS formatted disk.

The preview version of Blob on the Amiga Power coverdisk is actually the FULL GAME without the tedious intro sequence. There is a piece of code to check when the player has reached a certain level, then it blocks any further progress.

I know this because I discovered it, and cracked it for Dual Crew Shining, Supplied by the Supplier, Cracked by the Cracker..... I was that cracker.

With relation to Quak's copy protection, Rob Northen most likely was requested to supply a Keydisk for Quak (a disk with the protection track), but Team 17 chose not to use it, or time beat them, so they released it without.

As far as Rob is concerned, he supplied the protection and was paid for it. So if a software company decides not to use it......

[jmmijo]

That's kinda what I was thinking Galahad, it's great to see your name again too

I suppose RNC was not the only company to provide this kind of service. I know that Psygnosis had a nice loader system built into a lot of their titles as well. I seem to recall extended or long data tracks on the Beast series.

[MethodGit]

Originally posted by Galahad/FLT
The preview version of Blob on the Amiga Power coverdisk is actually the FULL GAME without the tedious intro sequence. There is a piece of code to check when the player has reached a certain level, then it blocks any further progress.

Ummm, isn't that usually common in most demos of commercial games? Thanks for the info anyway, but I was talking more about the actual FULL game AP gave away for free just before the magazine died out. AP29 had the demo, AP64 had the full version.

But surely Core deleted some data files from the demo? AFAIK the demo totalled to ~300k in size, while the full game totalled to ~750k or something like that.

I know this because I discovered it, and cracked it for Dual Crew Shining, Supplied by the Supplier, Cracked by the Cracker..... I was that cracker.

Hey, I didn't know that! I remember checking out the Dual Crew Shining crack a long while ago and wondering why they grabbed the demo version.

[TikTok]

Ummm, isn't that usually common in most demos of commercial games?

I doubt it was that common somehow. Firstly, many demos are actually of early versions of the software. Secondly, you usually find one or two demos on the same disk. Many (most?) games use more than one disk, so what you just suggested wouldn't be possible .