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Old 07 September 2009, 09:31   #1
BobbyBobBob
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How amigaish can you make an emulator feel?

how close to the amiga experience can you get using emulators on a pc? for example, is there any way you're able to boot to the kickstart boot screen? then maybe, stick in a floppy with an adf image on it and it will load from the floppy?

i know this sounds stupid (i will probably end up buying a second hand amiga anyway), but i'm just interested how far you can get a pc to behave like a real miggy
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Old 07 September 2009, 09:39   #2
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I tried something like that, but emulator will load disk image at once (PC floppy drive is not working when loading Amiga game because disk image is already in memory).
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Old 07 September 2009, 09:41   #3
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Hi BobbyBobBob and welcome to EAB!

It depends on what you look for, but the things you describe work exactly like on the real Amiga. You can even emulate the sounds that an Amgia floppy makes while loading . You won't have the machine itself (with the nice Amiga keys and so forth), but you have almost all features (and almost means something like 99%) of a classic Amiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
I tried something like that, but emulator will load disk image at once (PC floppy drive is not working when loading Amiga game because disk image is already in memory).
Just boot with no disk inserted and after you had enough of the 'kickstart hand' put in the disk. The disk will boot then like on a real Amiga.
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Old 07 September 2009, 11:25   #4
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I was just thinking about this the other day. I felt like using the emulator did not give me the experience comparable to using a real Amiga and I felt like figuring out the reasons.

Even though the emulation might be 99% accurate I don't feel like using the computer itself. I'm sure some of feeling is lost with the absence of the hardware but that's not certainly all of it.

Other contributing factors I found was the constant need to hit F12 and operate using the Windows based options screens. Another thing might be that at least on my setup, the monitor screen is never completely filled by the Amiga display even in full screen mode where as with the real thing the situation is almost the opposite. Disk swapping and absence of joysticks might also contribute.

I've yet to take my A1200 out, set it up again and see if it feels any different from the emulator experience. After all it might be that time is doing its tricks on me and even the real thing doesn't feel the same.
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Old 07 September 2009, 11:30   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
I tried something like that, but emulator will load disk image at once (PC floppy drive is not working when loading Amiga game because disk image is already in memory).
He still can insert the disk into his floppy drive and then listen to WinUAE's drive-sound emulation...

Last edited by john4p; 07 September 2009 at 15:00.
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Old 07 September 2009, 18:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Hi BobbyBobBob and welcome to EAB!

Just boot with no disk inserted and after you had enough of the 'kickstart hand' put in the disk. The disk will boot then like on a real Amiga.
hi, thanks for the welcome

just wondering, are you talking about using real floppies? if so, what program/setup are you using?

i know cloanto's 'amiga forever' includes an "Amiga Forever Boot Floppy Disk" but i couldnt find any further description what it does...

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I was just thinking about this the other day. I felt like using the emulator did not give me the experience comparable to using a real Amiga and I felt like figuring out the reasons.
thats what worries me. on the one hand, theres the advantage of not having to swap 12 disks for monkey island 2, or 9 for legend of kyrandia. but then i think of getting my mates round, giving them a zipstick each, putting in a blank floppy and looking at their faces when they see the sensible software logo pop up - versus giving them a couple of controllers, asking them to wait while windows loads and i point uae to the games folder. then it crashes when i flick the screen to full size...
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Old 07 September 2009, 19:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyBobBob View Post
just wondering, are you talking about using real floppies? if so, what program/setup are you using?
Sorry, that was a tad confusing. I'm talking about ADF files. You can't use real disks with WinUAE (maybe some freaky hardware thingy, but I'm the wrong guy to talk to about that ). Seeing your concerns about emulation I think you should go for the 'real deal' You still might want to have a look at emulation, but it surely hasn't the 'feeling' you want to have
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Old 09 September 2009, 23:33   #8
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You may want to read through this thread BobbyBobBob; Emulation vs the Real Thing

Some good / bad points from both sides of the fence
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Old 10 September 2009, 02:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1 View Post
Other contributing factors I found was the constant need to hit F12 and operate using the Windows based options screens.

I agree with that, to some extend. It would be nice to be able to gather the stuff you need during your AmigaOS session and operate a bit more with shortcuts. Also, having for example an popup explorer Window to browse and load the ADFs sitting on your HDD from within the emulated environment, may be I am dreaming awake, don't know...

There is a way to assign <custom events> from the input panel : For example I would disable JIT with F8, but it's not really an interactive and very publicized feature.


As for the look & feel, it all depends on your "relationship" with silicon beings. I myself don't care much for the real hardware, and I know I can rely on my Dual Core beast to deliver some pretty high fps, if I get fed up with those slow loading Amiga games screens (but this is not an issue with the emulator, rather with how events were timed differently 20 years ago).


This of course, except if I realize too much in left off in term of accuracy (are primitive shooters really well emulated ? Yes, you think they are ? well look closer) and if you're a purist, you should notice some types of games, mostly arcade platformers and adventurers, do receive quite a harsh treatment over time.

This said, since the Amiga was so much ahead of its time in terms of lavish graphics and ultra-smooth animation, it's easier to forgive these little quibbles with its emulation.
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Old 10 September 2009, 02:33   #10
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Take a look in WinUAE/amiga programs folder
There are two progs to steer the whole thing from within emulation
uae-control and uae-configuration

and with winlaunch (can't remember where i got this from)
you're be able to start Win progs
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Old 10 September 2009, 07:24   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tero View Post
There are two progs to steer the whole thing from within emulation
uae-control and uae-configuration

Been here !


I'll check WinLaunch later, but it seems the editor has vanished.

It was more me imagining something like an DOS file browser window on top of WinUAE (visible both in native and RTG mode) which would allow easier and faster ADF loading. Nevermind !
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Old 10 September 2009, 08:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
(are primitive shooters really well emulated ? Yes, you think they are ? well look closer)
Maybe you want to elaborate on this?
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Old 10 September 2009, 11:53   #13
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I assume seeing game titles popping in WinUAE changelog means some functions of in-game emulation are still being updated.


I noticed an old MAME shooter was not as nice as expected from seeing a video capture... A phenomenon first noticed with Xevious.

If you care to know, its driver status is "good", but the information data says another story :
" Explosive pattern of Giddo Spario is different from the real one... Unfortunately we could not get the real shot, but some references. "
Most notably, I noticed clipping and detection collisions problems with the MAME version, which admittedly won't be fixed any soon.


So I decided to be extra-careful next time I load a classic shooter. My remark was not aimed at WinUAE in particular.


I don't know what are Midline resolution (and I don't mean to ask), other improvements are beyond my grasp, and there are fewer high-quality footage of actual Amigas playing games than with Mame, so I can't really give you game titles from that category.

Last edited by NewDeli; 10 September 2009 at 12:01.
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Old 10 September 2009, 12:02   #14
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Thought as much...
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Old 10 September 2009, 15:45   #15
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After playing around with Amithlon, KX Light, and Aros for some time, trying to get an "x86 Amiga" up an running, I recently switched to a thumb-drive version of XP. Drivers work 100%, no worries about having the proper hardware, and it boots about as fast as the other options. Not to mention WinUAE is the best emulator there is, far better than the Linux variants.

Thus far I've modded the startup screens (Currently have the blue floppy hand) and it boots straight to a Winuae Workbench, bypassing Windows Desktop entirely. It's about as close as I'm gonna get to a modern Amiga laptop, and I've made Windows as invisible as possible- no visible signs during boot.

I'll try to put up a step-by-step tutorial, if anone's interested.
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Old 10 September 2009, 21:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radon_22 View Post
It's about as close as I'm gonna get to a modern Amiga laptop, and I've made Windows as invisible as possible-
Are you using Winbuilder/Reatogo/bartPE or similar? I am working on an
WinUAE live CD - Iso size about 100mb

When you want play a little more you could try ReactOS too
It's openSource and runs with every month some Prog more
for info - it's windowsXP clone and in Alpha state


How i could forget: uae-app!
must be installed with path to disks in win and amiga side
double click will insert them into df0 etc..

http://aminet.net/search?query=uae-app

I used it a long time - Problem: not every Install is succesfull
So make backup from HDF first - and copy back if uae-app
isn't running correctly
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Old 11 September 2009, 07:04   #17
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Originally Posted by radon_22 View Post
After playing around with Amithlon, KX Light, and Aros for some time, trying to get an "x86 Amiga" up an running, I recently switched to a thumb-drive version of XP. Drivers work 100%, no worries about having the proper hardware, and it boots about as fast as the other options. Not to mention WinUAE is the best emulator there is, far better than the Linux variants.

Thus far I've modded the startup screens (Currently have the blue floppy hand) and it boots straight to a Winuae Workbench, bypassing Windows Desktop entirely. It's about as close as I'm gonna get to a modern Amiga laptop, and I've made Windows as invisible as possible- no visible signs during boot.

I'll try to put up a step-by-step tutorial, if anone's interested.
sounds excellent, i have an old eee 901 i'd love to turn into an amiga lappy.
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Old 11 September 2009, 08:02   #18
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sounds excellent, i have an old eee 901 i'd love to turn into an amiga lappy.
Then you'll miss the 'getting my mates round, giving them a zipstick each, putting in a blank floppy and looking at their faces when they see the sensible software logo pop up' bit Just wanted to point out that it's still a PC you have then, so you need to buy some joystick adapters and still don't have the ability to throw in a disk to boot from it.
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Old 11 September 2009, 15:38   #19
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Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Then you'll miss the 'getting my mates round, giving them a zipstick each, putting in a blank floppy and looking at their faces when they see the sensible software logo pop up' bit Just wanted to point out that it's still a PC you have then, so you need to buy some joystick adapters and still don't have the ability to throw in a disk to boot from it.
Oh, it's still a PC, but heck- is floppies really what made your Amiga an Amiga, or was it the software?

As to the joystick, these work great: http://tiny.cc/92gq2
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Old 11 September 2009, 15:46   #20
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Originally Posted by radon_22 View Post
Oh, it's still a PC, but heck- is floppies really what made your Amiga an Amiga, or was it the software?
If you want to see it that way, every emulator should do. Hiding XP as much as possible isn't a bit advantage then If you look at post #6 (second part) you see what I was referring to.
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