icon.library 46.4 test versions

[Thorham]

To PeterK:

Why don't you just use a division table?

[PeterK]

Originally Posted by NovaCoder

Has anyone here managed to use FBlit + WBCtrl (startup sequence) + ICONS to FASTRAM (WB Prefs) under OS 3.9 with an Indivision AGA Mrk 2?

I don't have that hardware, but I would suggest to try out the attached FBlit.cfg file under OS 3.9 and DON'T use the option SIMPLEGELS for LoadWB.

@Thorham
Sorry, but a divivision table would require 256 bytes, right ? And speed isn't so important in this case. Nobody will ever notice a difference of 20 CPU cycles or so.....

[Retrofan]

I don't see any difference using it and disabling Simplegels on my conversion.

[PeterK]

Every system behaves different and some people reported graphics corruption on OS 3.5+ with SIMPLEGELS enabled. Futhermore, not using it and changing the FBlit options like in my example config file makes transparent icon dragging possible together with FBlit.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by PeterK

...not using it and changing the FBlit options like in my example config file makes transparent icon dragging possible together with FBlit.

Interesting... perhaps it will be adding something to WB2000, as I coudn't use transparent icons there (at the bar).
Edit: Well, perhaps I'm wrong, they are just images.

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Thorham

To PeterK:
Why don't you just use a division table?

How many cycles does it take to load a cache line from memory with data from the division table? Modern processors are generally faster at doing calculations inline in the already cached code because of pipelining. 68060 code could be faster and smaller using a multiply but the 68020-68040 are slow at multiplication. A table might be narrowly faster on the 68020/68030. Peter's method is a good compromise that has competitive speed and minimal memory usage for the 68020-68060.

Originally Posted by PeterK

@Thorham
Sorry, but a division table would require 256 bytes, right ? And speed isn't so important in this case. Nobody will ever notice a difference of 20 CPU cycles or so.....

A table would be much bigger if an exact calculation was wanted.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by PeterK

I don't have that hardware, but I would suggest to try out the attached FBlit.cfg file under OS 3.9 and DON'T use the option SIMPLEGELS for LoadWB.

Cool, thanks I'll give it a go and let you know what happens.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by PeterK

Sorry, but a divivision table would require 256 bytes, right ? And speed isn't so important in this case. Nobody will ever notice a difference of 20 CPU cycles or so.....

It would be 766 bytes, actually.

Anyway, how about doing the gray scale conversion and color lookup in one go with a single table? That should speed things up nicely. If that's useless, too, I'll just shut up

[PeterK]

It would be 766 bytes, actually.

That's correct, but I wanted to be nicely and accommodating by just taking a simple byte division into account.

Anyway, how about doing the gray scale conversion and color lookup in one go with a single table? That should speed things up nicely.

BINGO ! That's an excellent suggestion, because I did that already for the color lookup. That's what I called faster colormapping. It uses a 512 byte cache (3*3 bits) for the entire 24 bit color space. If the corresponding mini cube for a given RGB triplet already contains a pen number then no color comparison with the screen colors is done anymore. If there is no pen in the cache yet then a 565 bit RGB representation is used where the lower bits are shifted a little towards middle of the corresponding cube and then the normal color comparison is done or if the screen has no fitting color then a new pen will be allocated. After approximately 400 color comparisons the cache is usually filled up enough and no searching for pens has to be done anymore. But it's not good for grayscale images since the cache can only hold 8 shades of gray. Have a look into my source code and search for "maploop".

If that's useless, too, I'll just shut up

No, please don't do that. I'm very very happy to get any suggestions.

[Turran]

Originally Posted by PeterK

I don't have that hardware, but I would suggest to try out the attached FBlit.cfg file under OS 3.9 and DON'T use the option SIMPLEGELS for LoadWB.

@Thorham
Sorry, but a divivision table would require 256 bytes, right ? And speed isn't so important in this case. Nobody will ever notice a difference of 20 CPU cycles or so.....

Tested your fblit.cfg file.
Put it in SYS:Prefs/Env-Archive, overwriting the old.
In prefs / Workbench, changed to "Images in: Other memory"
Restarted, but screen blinks when dragging selecting/dragging icons again.

Changed back to Images in: Graphics memory and blinking is gone =(

So that did not help

[PeterK]

If you have a WB background image (wallpaper) then disable it, use standard gray background and try icons in other memory again.

Update:
What is your graphics hardware and screenmode ?

And, you don't use DOpus Magellan II, do you ??

[Turran]

No wallpaper. Standard gray background.

I use the same as Retrofan. Indivision AGA MKII using HighGFX in 1024x768. Same happens with xtreme in 1280x1024. Not on any lower resolution settings.

Its a standard ClassicWB 3.9, so no Dopus Magellan II or similar. Standard workbench.

Although, Im not sure this problem goes in this thread or is even your problem since the same thing happens with icon.library from the boingbags (45.1?)

[PeterK]

Ok, thanks for the infos.
So, if you use SuperPlus (800*600) that works without this strange blinking ?
Is your HighGfx driver from Aminet ? I'm going to try that on WinUAE now.....

[Turran]

From Aminet, yes. Not happening with SuperPlus.

I have a copy of this machine on winuae. Testing there too...

Edit: Can not replicate it in WinUae. Guess it only happens on real hardware =(

Edit2: Not getting this problem with the original core for Indivision AGA MKII. Only the later ones. According to Jens its a software problem (?!)
Second quote: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...postcount=2162

Thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=55980&page=55

[NovaCoder]

I think it's actually an Indy Mrk2 issue, kind of. The thing is, that WB setting is really meant for RTG cards, what we are trying to do is a hack.

[PeterK]

I've also tried to reproduce this with the HighGFX driver on WinUAE 2.5.1, but it works without a blinking screen, just some icon backgrounds are scratched while draggging them around.

This must indeed be a problem of the Indivision MKII hardware or firmware, I don't know since I cannot test it.

Update:
There is one more thing that you could try, it's the "Inline" option of the QBSBlitPatch:

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by Turran

Tested your fblit.cfg file.
Put it in SYS:Prefs/Env-Archive, overwriting the old.
In prefs / Workbench, changed to "Images in: Other memory"
Restarted, but screen blinks when dragging selecting/dragging icons again.

Changed back to Images in: Graphics memory and blinking is gone =(

So that did not help

I can't reproduce your problem with AmiKit real. With Workbench it's the same here using Other memory or Graphics memory, Simplegels or whatever...

But I remember I was having similar problems (the same?) when using a time ago CWB39 and HighGFX, and also the screen going to black.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrQaa...ature=youtu.be

BTW that SuperPlus screen was nice, and now I can't get it.

[Thorham]

To PeterK:

I've checked your c2p. Are you going to replace it with a faster one? If so, you'll probably gain quite some speed from using a fast c2p. Could be annoying to implement, though, but there are ready made ones, such as the ones by Kalms. Worth checking out.

[PeterK]

Hmm ?? I really thought that my c2p is the fastest !
Where can I get Kalms' c2p code ?
Update: Found the C2P thread and the code already: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=664367

Maybe, I can get a little more speed, but I don't believe that my c2p is a bottleneck atm.

The c2p code must be able to adapt itself to the image width, height and to the number of required bitplanes, not only from chunky bytes to 8 bitplanes.

Update2: Kalms' c2p modules are all written for just one predefined number of bitplanes (and odd things like 7 bitplanes are not supported at all). But icon.library really needs support for every depth from 1 to 8 planes. I'm not even sure that his c2p code is much faster. If you like Thorham, then you could try to calculate the number of required CPU cycles for converting 8 chunky bytes by using 8 bitplanes. My c2p code needs 504 cycles if I didn' make a mistake in my calculation (I'm not so good in doing that, but Matthey is an expert for CPU cycles).

[Retrofan]

I'm trying to run AmiStart and it seems I've got problems with some icons only:



Do you have an idea? If I use for example the original icon for the AmiStart button on the left, it looks good. I'm not using Fpu, but it's the same with it. I can have the background transparent without problems even. PM on the way.

Edit: Don't tell me the wallpaper is crushed. It is for the "photo", but not with my 16:9 Tv mode.

[PeterK]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

I'm trying to run AmiStart and it seems I've got problems with some icons only:

Do you have an idea? If I use for example the original icon for the AmiStart button on the left, it looks good. I'm not using Fpu, but it's the same with it. I can have the background transparent without problems even. PM on the way.

Are you really talking about icons ???? I guess, what you mean are AmiStart PNG images and no icons.
What is your problem ??? That "it looks good" and what "is the same with it" ???
Hey Retrofan, why are you always explaining your problems in such a mysterious way ?
What should I do with your AmiStart installation download? Destroying my system?

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by PeterK

If you like Thorham, then you could try to calculate the number of required CPU cycles for converting 8 chunky bytes by using 8 bitplanes. My c2p code needs 504 cycles if I didn' make a mistake in my calculation (I'm not so good in doing that, but Matthey is an expert for CPU cycles).

Fast c2p on a 50 mhz 68030 takes about 1.25 to 1.50 frames for a 320x256 256 color screen, so that works out to less than 150 cycles for eight pixels.

You can read up on it here: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~mikaelk/doc/c2ptut/

[PeterK]

Even if these c2p routines are 3 times faster, they still don't meet the requirements of the icon.library. I would need 8 of these modules, one for every screen depth. That's totally unacceptable. The possible speed increase could be a few percents since the c2p code is only one task that is responsible for the total time an icon takes to get onto the screen.

Nevertheless, thanks a lot for your efforts to improve this routine and the infos.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by PeterK

Are you really talking about icons ????

Yes, they are icons. Workbench 2000 or ScreenTab use images, AmiStart uses icons.
Did I say icons? Yes, icons.

Originally Posted by PeterK

... I guess, what you mean are AmiStart PNG images and no icons.

They are icons.

Originally Posted by PeterK

...What is your problem ??? That "it looks good" and what "is the same with it" ???
Hey Retrofan, why are you always explaining your problems in such a mysterious way ?

Just to know why an icon "looks right" and why another in the same place doesn't. There must be a difference between both icons. That's it.
"Looks good" is that doesn't have glitches (I think you can watch them on the photo), and "is the same with it" means "is the same with FPU". Sorry for my bad english.

Originally Posted by PeterK

...What should I do with your AmiStart installation download? Destroying my system?

I think I haven't include any virus with it. Let me see.... (pause)... No, I didn't.

As I told you by Pm I only sent it to you if you WANTED to look at it or if you were interested.

You don't have to be offensive.

Edit: I've got (on the files I've sent you) in AmiKit:Utilities/Expansion/AmiStart/icons an icon named start.info and another start.infoOriginal. If I change the original for the other you see the icon without glitches (rebooting). BTW AmiStart doesn't seem to like to be started from the WBStartup as I've sent you, it won't hang (at least not so often by now) if you run it outside of it.

I don't know anybody else that can know more about icons than you ... And I believe at least a couple of guys would like to use the AmiKit's AmiStart.

[PeterK]

@Retrofan

You don't have to be offensive.

Edit: I've got (on the files I've sent you) in AmiKit:Utilities/Expansion/AmiStart/icons an icon named start.info and another start.infoOriginal. If I change the original for the other you see the icon without glitches (rebooting).

I don't want to be offensive, but you must learn to explain your problems in a way that other people can understand what you did before and what went wrong like you did that now after the "Edit:" above.

I've tried out all of these AmiStart icons now, but none of them has a problem to be displayed correctly with my icon.library:

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by PeterK

@Retrofan

I don't want to be offensive, but you must learn to explain your problems in a way that other people can understand what you did before and what went wrong like you did that now after the "Edit:" above.

I've tried out all of these AmiStart icons now, but none of them has a problem to be displayed correctly with my icon.library:

My edit was after your offensive post about that my files were going to destroy your system. Later I thought that I have no other to ask, so then I've edited it just in the case that you want to help me, ... and I did because you've helped me a lot

Ok, there is no problem with your icon.library (and I hadn't tell you so), but there's a difference between both icons (AmiKit:Utilities/Expansion/AmiStart/icons; start.info and start.infoOriginal). One looks right and the other not (just with AmiStart).

This is just a question about the difference between both, and I will never find it without help.

Edit: The author of AmiStart says that it doesn't work without FPU on his system (that's why I commented about that), and also rtg is recommended, but he doesn't know if it can work without FPU, because of the libraries he has installed. I don't see (by now) big problems, and I want to try to run it if it's possible, and it seems so, appart of the icons glitches.

Edit2: OK, I've think I've got it. It seems it can be the size (kbytes) of the icons. Edit: No, just some icons work, others don't, sorry.
But it works now just resizing them smaller.

[James]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Ok, there is no problem with your icon.library (and I hadn't tell you so), but there's a difference between both icons (AmiKit:Utilities/Expansion/AmiStart/icons; start.info and start.infoOriginal). One looks right and the other not (just with AmiStart).

Start.info => DualPNG start.infoOriginal => Not DualPNG?
Have you tried snapshotting the icons that don't work (while using icon.library not AfA) to convert them to OS3.5 format?

[Retrofan]

Dunno, those icons are all snapshotted... (if the word exists) but now Im changing the icons with anothers from Ken Lester (basically the sames) and they look right.

Edit: Well, I've got it looking better, just changing the icons. Still I'm missing the main one, the AmiKit Eye cutted for the AmiStart button; I'm using one I've made with black background instead of transparent, but now I don't want to go offtopic on this thread.
I will try to find where Ken has the original icons for AmiKit.

In my last post I've added an image of how it is now here:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=887164#post887164

[PeterK]

Even the author of AmiStart wasn't sure if it can work without Fpu and he was recommending rtg:

"Hardware:
- any Amiga with at least a 68020, without a fpu it crashes here, but i think that's a problem of my System coz i have patched some libs to use the fpu. I have not used any fpu compiler settings.
- its recommended to use a gfx-card and a fast system."

I guess, at least for PNG icons you will need an RTG system, but the cat eye alias icons/Start.info, which you sent me, is a PNG icon. You can always check that with every Hex viewer or editor.

Update: Check out those bad icons with the glitches on a truecolor screen. I bet the glitches will disappear then. If you think that you can use AmiStart successfully with some icons on AGA screens, that can be a false conclusion, because as far as I know there are still a lot of memory trashings caused by AmiStart when it is used on AGA screens. You may just have good luck and these memory trashings don't appear on the screen with your supposed to be good icons. But AmiStart will probably make AGA systems very unstable.

[Retrofan]

Well, the proof that it works with truecolor skins is AmiKit for PC. I'm using the same icons and they are wrong here with AGA.

Is there a way to change an icon and not adding a black background?

AmiStart each time is working better.

[PeterK]

Is there a way to change an icon and not adding a black background?

Sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to do.
Upload the original icon. Tell me what you want to change and which tool you've tried to do that.

Run Enforcer on an AGA system to see how AmiStart behaves.

[Retrofan]

From the attached, Button.info is the one I need. It shows glitches. AmiKit.info works right (but it's too big and isn't the right one).

I only have tried using an image and converting it to icon with image2icon, but it shows a black background.

Edit: I've just tried with Enforcer, VBRControl and SegTracker. At first I've thought I hadn't installed them in C or something, but I had done. I can open (well, I'm on it as I've got to change the commands to open the programs, as the ones it had from AmiKit for Pc doesn't work here; Execmode="1" instead of "0" on AmiKit, and I don't know how to open others) the programs using AmiStart and it wasn't opening WinUAEEnforcer (the window with bugs). It did at some moment, but it was just when a sound on the clock (the hour) struck.
Edit: I don't say it's working perfect. From time to time or sometimes the bar, or part of it goes to the top of the screen, and all hangs.

[PeterK]

Reduced the width with IconEdit to 46 pixels, try that....

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by PeterK

Reduced the width with IconEdit to 46 pixels, try that....

Thank you very much

This is how it looks with WinUAE, HighGFX (1024x768), your icon, 256 colors, transparent bar (not rendered) and 75% transparency on the first menu:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3...trighticon.png

Edit: This icon.library of yours is wonderful. Pure beauty in those icons and fast...

[PeterK]

So, my conclusion is that AmiStart don't likes images for the bar with more than 46 pixels width, right? And no PNG icons for AGA systems?

....using AmiStart and it wasn't opening WinUAEEnforcer (the window with bugs)....

If there are indeed no Enforcer hits from AmiStart, is that only while you are NOT using any PNG icons for the AmiStart bar?

If that is true then we should ask Jan to convert all PNG icons in his AmiKit distro into OS 3.5 icons to allow a safe usage of AmiKit on AGA screens, too.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by PeterK

So, my conclusion is that AmiStart don't likes images for the bar with more than 46 pixels width, right? And no PNG icons for AGA systems?

Really I don't know what the problem is with the icons. Some icons work and are wider, like the one of the Dynamite game, that is "extra size". It musn't be PNG: (Edit: And the glitches weren't only at the bar, I had them too at the menus).

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5...parentreal.png

Even the two ones I've posted here, the one working has the same width than the other, and they are similar. Don't know why they made one PNG and not the other or what happens.

But the thing is that as you've seen all these icons that show glitches are right when aren't used with AmiStart.

About changing them I suposse it must be Ken Lester who can make that. I don't know if I can have enforcer hits with the wrong icons. I think I've changed them all.

Edit: Anyway I think that at some moment I will have to open another thread, as I can't make some programs run clicking on their icons at the bar or menus.

[PeterK]

You can also look into Ken's icons v2 or V3 sets which are both in OS 3.5 format: http://www.five-star.com/kens_icons/downloads/

[Retrofan]

Thanks, I think yesterday I downloaded them all ...

I believe the only icons with problems are inside the AmiStart drawers. In particular (almost all the icons are here, some work but not many) inside the Phantom drawer that is the most used by AmiStart. I think Ken hasn't these icons uploaded there:

[PeterK]

It seems that all the icons in the "icons_extended" drawer, including the phantom drawer, are PNG icons. When you are in one of these drawers then just "select all" icons and use snapshot from the WB menu to fix their positioin. It will ask you if you really want to convert them into the OS 3.5 format. Then select "YES ALWAYS" and this job should be done. None of them will remain in PNG format. The requester will not ask you again when doing the next snapshot. Fixing the position will convert all PNG icons now.