Scanlines or NO scanlines? - Page 9

Konrad · 29 March 2007, 17:03

Those who use scanlines, say that it looks like they remember it from the good ol' days

, i.e. when they played Amiga with 14'' 1084s monitors or a tv. And scanlines don't archieve this look.
You can just archieve the original look with a TV/arcade-/amiga monitor or get close to it with Triad filters. Scanlines are crap

.

I never said I want to use a 20year old TV. That's because I don't need to. I remember correctly how the picture looked back then. That was just thought of as help for the blindfolded

.

killergorilla · 29 March 2007, 17:05

I remember watching Disney's Aladdin on some shitty old VHS I'd watched fifty times.

Doesn't mean I want to run my DVD player through a snow storm to achieve the same look.

Konrad · 29 March 2007, 17:10

:. You know that's not the original look but is caused of your heavy abuse of the poor old VHS. Why did you watch the movie so often anyway

?

EDIT: And hey, don't point with your finger at me. I'm not using any filters. I'm not you enemy, I'm with you

.

killergorilla · 29 March 2007, 17:14

Because Robin Williams is comedy magic.

VHS was never DVD quality even the first time you played it.

Why detract from your picture now to reduce it's quality again?

Anyway this is getting boring.

/me goes to watch Aladdin

Sune Salminen · 29 March 2007, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Wasn't there somethng that made Scanlines on the 1084s monitors? I had one, i seem to remember something...

If you used the control on the back to stretch the picture vertically, you could get some pretty good scanlines going!

Ironclaw · 29 March 2007, 17:38

Arghhh !

No, I'm not crazy drawing all those lines: Image

Legerdemain · 29 March 2007, 18:04

I prefer BOTH.

While playing old Amiga games on the TV they can sometimes look like they are being played in higher resolution than when using a scandoubler -> VGA solution (or whatever the like). Also, to me scanlines makes the lack of colours on OCS/ECS games sometimes become less apparent than when running them without scanlines (which also is one of the reasons I never really noticed how much less colours Monkey Island on the Amiga had to offer compared to any other 265-colour version of Monkey Island). Without scanlines, it just looks less colourful (but the screen becomes 'brighter', yes).

Though, I do like the crispness of the non scanline picture... it adds a certain feel, no matter how much more low-res and less colourful the picture might seem. Also, it makes it more interesting to compare a non-scanlined picture of an Amiga game with, for example, pictures of the DOS-equivalent.

In the end... I prefer both... but it completely depends on my mood. I will NEVER accept the point of view that scanlines never ever have anything good to offer... but, yes, while running the Amiga on anything but an ordinary television I do not often use scanlines... because as it already has been pointed out, there are other filters which emulates the TV-feel way much better.

Retro-Nerd · 29 March 2007, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legerdemain

I will NEVER accept the point of view that scanlines never ever have anything good to offer...

These are the wise words i've expected from Mr. KG Myagi.

Anubis · 29 March 2007, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by killergorilla

I remember watching Disney's Aladdin on some shitty old VHS I'd watched fifty times.

Doesn't mean I want to run my DVD player through a snow storm to achieve the same look.

You told 'em all!

Ultron · 29 March 2007, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by killergorilla

I remember watching Disney's Aladdin on some shitty old VHS I'd watched fifty times.

Doesn't mean I want to run my DVD player through a snow storm to achieve the same look.

Sweet lord, dude, Go play F.E.A.R, anysotropic filtering, FSAAliasing, 1024x1024 HQ textures, bumpmaps, specular maps, polys to your hear content.

Unlike those crappy 32x16 tilemap 2d games from the last century?

It's emulation.

I think as far as possible WinUAE should have an option to look like a 1084s, a TV, and a fake one to look as best as possible on a modern PC monitor. Probably with higher filterings than simple bilinear.

killergorilla · 29 March 2007, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Sweet lord, dude, Go play F.E.A.R, anysotropic filtering, FSAAliasing, 1024x1024 HQ textures, bumpmaps, specular maps, polys to your hear content.

I can't find that in HOL

Anubis · 29 March 2007, 18:54

So the sound of floppy drive is not enough??

Next thing you'll ask Toni to implement frequent

Shoonay · 29 March 2007, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Sweet lord, dude, Go play F.E.A.R, anysotropic filtering, FSAAliasing, 1024x1024 HQ textures, bumpmaps, specular maps, polys to your hear content.

Is it just me or did you forget scanlines?

Ultron · 29 March 2007, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anubis

So the sound of floppy drive is not enough??

Isn't it a good thing...? Aren't hardware metaphysical Amiga all going to disapear sooner or later? Isn't preservation part and parcel of emulation? It should be, as is in MAME, it's a good thing if the next generation will be able to appreciate an Amiga like we did.

Ultron · 29 March 2007, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoonay

Is it just me or did you forget scanlines?

I don't like the scanlines they're an inferior emulation of the old look. A RGB triad would be nice.

As is obvious modern games don't need them to begin with they're being rendered at 1600x1200 if needed be with fully detailed polygonal meshes. Even many of those effects are needed most by low resolutions like 1024x768 or 800x600.

killergorilla · 29 March 2007, 19:09

I hate the sound of the floppy drive. I wanted to stop it.

In ten years time I really can't see people turning on the hoover when they play xbox 360 emulation.

The noise of the console/computer is an unwanted side effect, it's not part of emulation.

Dizzy · 29 March 2007, 19:15

I think they should incorparate the waiting time from thr C64 cassette games
Load scanlines,8,1 return
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
wait
Scanlines ready
Run return

Ultron · 29 March 2007, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by killergorilla

I hate the sound of the floppy drive. I wanted to stop it.

In ten years time I really can't see people turning on the hoover when they play xbox 360 emulation.

The noise of the console/computer is an unwanted side effect, it's not part of emulation.

Turn it off sunshine!

The floppy noise is as classic as the Spectrums loading colour bands and noises

When you hear that copylock track comin' you be dancin' like Karl Rove's rap posse

Ultron · 29 March 2007, 21:09

Just keepin' it real

SilentBob · 29 March 2007, 21:23

I associate scanlines with monitors that can only operate in standard 15 kHz mode and flicker like hell in interlace mode. (Like my former 1084).

So... I hate scanlines. I need to get my hands on a good quality scandoubler again. (last I had was shit).

View Poll Results: Scanlines or NO scanlines?
Yes, I prefer scanlines.	81	29.14%
No, I don't like scanlines.	173	62.23%
I don't care which one. Any would do fine for me.	24	8.63%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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29 March 2007, 17:03	#161
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 742	Those who use scanlines, say that it looks like they remember it from the good ol' days , i.e. when they played Amiga with 14'' 1084s monitors or a tv. And scanlines don't archieve this look. You can just archieve the original look with a TV/arcade-/amiga monitor or get close to it with Triad filters. Scanlines are crap . I never said I want to use a 20year old TV. That's because I don't need to. I remember correctly how the picture looked back then. That was just thought of as help for the blindfolded .

29 March 2007, 17:05	#162
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	I remember watching Disney's Aladdin on some shitty old VHS I'd watched fifty times. Doesn't mean I want to run my DVD player through a snow storm to achieve the same look.

29 March 2007, 17:10	#163
Konrad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Age: 43 Posts: 742	:. You know that's not the original look but is caused of your heavy abuse of the poor old VHS. Why did you watch the movie so often anyway ? EDIT: And hey, don't point with your finger at me. I'm not using any filters. I'm not you enemy, I'm with you .

29 March 2007, 17:14	#164
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	Because Robin Williams is comedy magic. VHS was never DVD quality even the first time you played it. Why detract from your picture now to reduce it's quality again? Anyway this is getting boring. /me goes to watch Aladdin

29 March 2007, 17:38	#166
Ironclaw Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: ... Age: 46 Posts: 3,313	Arghhh ! No, I'm not crazy drawing all those lines: Image

29 March 2007, 18:04	#167
Legerdemain Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Skåne / Sweden Posts: 259	I prefer BOTH. While playing old Amiga games on the TV they can sometimes look like they are being played in higher resolution than when using a scandoubler -> VGA solution (or whatever the like). Also, to me scanlines makes the lack of colours on OCS/ECS games sometimes become less apparent than when running them without scanlines (which also is one of the reasons I never really noticed how much less colours Monkey Island on the Amiga had to offer compared to any other 265-colour version of Monkey Island). Without scanlines, it just looks less colourful (but the screen becomes 'brighter', yes). Though, I do like the crispness of the non scanline picture... it adds a certain feel, no matter how much more low-res and less colourful the picture might seem. Also, it makes it more interesting to compare a non-scanlined picture of an Amiga game with, for example, pictures of the DOS-equivalent. In the end... I prefer both... but it completely depends on my mood. I will NEVER accept the point of view that scanlines never ever have anything good to offer... but, yes, while running the Amiga on anything but an ordinary television I do not often use scanlines... because as it already has been pointed out, there are other filters which emulates the TV-feel way much better.

29 March 2007, 18:54	#172
Anubis Retro Gamer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Underworld Age: 51 Posts: 4,069	So the sound of floppy drive is not enough?? Next thing you'll ask Toni to implement frequent

29 March 2007, 19:09	#176
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	I hate the sound of the floppy drive. I wanted to stop it. In ten years time I really can't see people turning on the hoover when they play xbox 360 emulation. The noise of the console/computer is an unwanted side effect, it's not part of emulation.

29 March 2007, 19:15	#177
Dizzy Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,395	I think they should incorparate the waiting time from thr C64 cassette games Load scanlines,8,1 return wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait Scanlines ready Run return

29 March 2007, 21:09	#179
Ultron Something Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amigaland, Nostalgia Age: 48 Posts: 757	Just keepin' it real

29 March 2007, 21:23	#180
SilentBob Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Norway Age: 49 Posts: 246	I associate scanlines with monitors that can only operate in standard 15 kHz mode and flicker like hell in interlace mode. (Like my former 1084). So... I hate scanlines. I need to get my hands on a good quality scandoubler again. (last I had was shit).

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