in which way the amiga beat the megadrive

[TCD]

Originally Posted by frikilokooo

Skeleton Krew in Amiga version has awesome music! I wonder how is Megadrive version music...

It's completly different (no cool hiphop beats ). I could upload the MD rom to the zone for you if you want to check it out.

[Nebulon]

Having played a ton of games on both the Amiga and MD, I'll throw my two-cents worth in. I'll stick to the Amiga 500 for my write-up.

Yes, the Amiga can do 64-color games without Copper effects (that's what EHB mode is for).

And the 4-channels of the audio on the Amiga can be split into 8 with some CPU use; utilizing less CPU power then you might think).

Although they both have the same CPU with the MD clocked slightly faster, the Amiga has an insane number of DMA channels (25) and a sophisticated bus layout. The GPU (Agnus) can work on tasks without any RAM contention or CPU intervention since, at gaming resolution, the CPU and Blitter's RAM access is cycle interleaved; the Amiga custom chips can access RAM during the 68000's second cycle. This makes a huge difference to performance.

Polygons - Whereas the MD has to rely 100% on the CPU to handle polygons, the Amiga's Agnus chip can take care of both the line draw and solid fill for polygons. That much more CPU power available for other tasks.

The OCS blitter shifts areas of 5000x5000 pixels in all directions at the sub-pixel level.

The Paula sound chip is far from a simple sampling chip. It's a 4-channel state-machine with its own DMA that can auto-loop four simultaneous samples without CPU intervention. And yes, despite the nay-sayers, it does in fact support FM, AM, and wavetable synthesis (see the Byte article from 1985 and the Amiga Hardware Reference Manual). As someone else mentioned, the four channels can be summed to two in order to up the resolution to 14-bit (12-bit nominal).

The Amiga doesn't just use the HAM graphics mode to display still pictures with 4096 simultaneous colors; it can use that same mode for animations and game-play (e.g. Labyrinth of Time).

The 8 sprite generators in the Amiga are re-usable (that's 8 sprites per line with infinite height allowed). Since the Amiga is the last of the Atari 2600's lineage, racing-the-beam programming techniques are supported. See the sprites-as-background technique used for Leander. Blitter objects and CPU software sprites were still available for use since all three can be used at the same time.

Maximum resolution on an Amiga 500 is PAL overscan at 704x576.

In short, both machines are great. However, the Amiga is the more flexible of the two. And in the right hands, it can meet or exceed the Megadrive in most aspects. The reason so many games on the Amiga look like crap is because the typical developer just didn't have the financial incentive to program specifically for the Amiga hardware at an adept level. The platform with the most users generally dictates the output. Hence why Gods was a 16-color port of an ST game and didn't use the 32-color (or 64-color EHB) mode(s) that the Amiga offered. Same for many other ports to the Amiga.

Better examples of older chipset applied to Amiga games include: Fly Harder, Universe, Odyssey, Lionheart, Pinball Dreams, Hybris, Assassin Special Edition, Parasol Stars, Robocod, and Hired Guns (the last one's for the guy asking what to do with the extra RAM).

P.S. For people wanting a motion HAM demo, check out HAMazing. Everything I've mentioned is either on YouTube or Archive.org.

[Seiya]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

The Paula sound IS BETTER. Amount of sound channels is irrelevant, the Amiga more than makes up for this with sampled sounds as opposed to the 'bleep bleep' artificial sounding nature of the Megadrive.

I answer now because i saw this topic now.
Paula play instruments amost like real instruments, but small samples that one time finished restart all over.
Megadrive has less quality than Amiga, but musics are more complete, dinamic, no limited by sample of few minutes.

Turrican 3 and Out Run are the perfect example to listen to the difference (not quality, but how the musics are played)

Many Amigans listen to only the quality of single instruments played by Paula, but many music has no soul, are sample played to have a music accompaniment, but there is no a link with the game.
If you play an action game musics must help you to play better, to give the rithm. Many Amiga games cannot have help from music because are merely instruments played in very small samples.
I listen to Mega Drive music and in the same music many arrangment that need to create a very long music, dinamic that enhance the gameplay.

[lmimmfn]

Is it just me or does Nebulon's post read like a ChatGTP output?
Sorry Nebulon, apart from the end of your comment it looks completely generated.

[Trunchis]

Originally Posted by Seiya

I answer now because i saw this topic now.
Paula play instruments amost like real instruments, but small samples that one time finished restart all over.
Megadrive has less quality than Amiga, but musics are more complete, dinamic, no limited by sample of few minutes.

Turrican 3 and Out Run are the perfect example to listen to the difference (not quality, but how the musics are played)

Many Amigans listen to only the quality of single instruments played by Paula, but many music has no soul, are sample played to have a music accompaniment, but there is no a link with the game.
If you play an action game musics must help you to play better, to give the rithm. Many Amiga games cannot have help from music because are merely instruments played in very small samples.
I listen to Mega Drive music and in the same music many arrangment that need to create a very long music, dinamic that enhance the gameplay.

There's plenty of good Amiga music and Mega Drive music. There's also loads of awful tunes on both platforms. They have vastly different hardware with different strengths and shortcomings and, ultimately, it's up to the composers to make the most out of the hardware. You can find many examples of Amiga tunes that sound better than the Mega Drive equivalents and vice versa. FYI, Turrican 3 is a port of Mega Turrican, which was the original version and plays to the strengths of the Mega Drive hardware.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Is it just me or does Nebulon's post read like a ChatGTP output?
Sorry Nebulon, apart from the end of your comment it looks completely generated.

Not to me it doesn't. ChatGPT's style is generally more like an encyclopedia, and it wouldn't overstate the Amiga's hardware capabilities with as much zeal and inaccurate technical detail.

ChatGPT would probably throw in some negative stuff too, because it has no understanding of what it regurgitates and there is a lot of negativity out there concerning the Amiga.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Seiya

Megadrive has less quality than Amiga, but musics are more complete, dinamic, no limited by sample of few minutes.

Problem with Mega Drive music is it's hard to avoid sounding like a cheap synth keyboard (since that's what its sound chip was designed for). What's worse is a lot of composers think that music is good.

Synth sound is appropriate for the Mega Drive because it uses less ROM space, which is much more expensive than disk space on the Amiga.

Problem with the Amiga is you only have 4 channels and the samples take up precious Chip RAM. To get good polyphony you need a separate sample for each chord. Upside is you can get any sound you want, with much more realistic samples. But doing it well is hard work and requires a different mindset.

Music should be context related and help the player. For example in The Faery Tale Adventure a different tune plays to set the mood during the day and at night, when being attacked, and inside buildings. Silkworm has an excellent tune on the title screen - but none in game (because why would you want it?). However the shooting and explosion sounds are awesome and very rewarding. The player makes the music while they play!

[Nebulon]

Originally Posted by Seiya

Many Amiga games cannot have help from music because are merely instruments played in very small samples.
I listen to Mega Drive music and in the same music many arrangment that need to create a very long music, dinamic that enhance the gameplay.

Sample length has nothing to do with sequence length. You can make the song sequence as long as you like on the Amiga. If you wanted to write an hour-long song that goes through forty different movements to go with a game you could certainly do that.

Whether or not a piece of music has character or 'soul' is up to the composer.

The following are all Amiga music played through the Paula chip. Seriously, if none of this moves you at all then I really don't know what to say:

[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/oth...%20(Amiga).mp3
http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/oth...%20(AMIGA).mp3
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]

You don't just have to play identifiable sampled instruments through Paula. You have the option to generate any single-cycle waveform from the classic sine, saw, square, and triangle, right through to custom sawtooth waves. Paula will then auto-loop them for you and offer the option to modulate one with another (frequency mod and amplitude mod). Subtractive and wavetable (including shifting wavetables) at your fingertips.
http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/amiga-articles.html
https://archive.org/details/amiga-ha...al-3rd-edition

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by TCD

It's completly different (no cool hiphop beats ). I could upload the MD rom to the zone for you if you want to check it out.

I wonder if 2023 TCD would still commit to a not-so-legal activity like that

[TCD]

Originally Posted by gimbal

I wonder if 2023 TCD would still commit to a not-so-legal activity like that

I'd probably just post a link now

[Seiya]

Originally Posted by Nebulon

The following are all Amiga music played through the Paula chip. Seriously, if none of this moves you at all then I really don't know what to say:

i agree with you that many games on Amiga has very fantastic audio (tunes, arrangement, samples, instruments), but in general in some more known games or where there is more expection Amiga are not exploited very well.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by Seiya

Many Amigans listen to only the quality of single instruments played by Paula, but many music has no soul, are sample played to have a music accompaniment, but there is no a link with the game.

I know that De gustibus non est disputandum but that's probably one of the worst comment I've ever read here with the intend of trashing the Amiga.

[Aulapatchuc]

Originally Posted by Seiya

i agree with you that many games on Amiga has very fantastic audio (tunes, arrangement, samples, instruments), but in general in some more known games or where there is more expection Amiga are not exploited very well.

JC! Are you serious when you post something like this? Do you really listen to proper Amiga music? Have you played the hundreds or thousands of games with great music, the thousands of demos with great music, the thousands of MODS that are out there and have been compiled, of music made on an Amiga that uses solely the Paula sound chip?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Seiya

i agree with you that many games on Amiga has very fantastic audio (tunes, arrangement, samples, instruments), but in general in some more known games or where there is more expection Amiga are not exploited very well.

If you are talking solely about arcade games I could imagine where that statement comes from, but in general that is a very 'interesting' opinion

[sokolovic]

Go back in 1993 and then compare this tune :
[ Show youtube player ]

with the Amiga one and tell me that the Amiga version have no soul in comparaison.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Seiya

i agree with you that many games on Amiga has very fantastic audio (tunes, arrangement, samples, instruments), but in general in some more known games or where there is more expection Amiga are not exploited very well.

In general, it is kindness to the reader to provide an example. Right now you're essentially expecting people to read your mind.

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by lmimmfn

Is it just me or does Nebulon's post read like a ChatGTP output?
Sorry Nebulon, apart from the end of your comment it looks completely generated.

So I used my favourite chatbot to get it's input on this whole thing.





I think it gets the ridiculousness just right.

[TCD]

Now that's an interesting chatbot

[saimon69]

The ways people compose for a FM chip and a sample based one are a bit different, and the RAM available count: in a FM chip six channels like megadrive/genesis you can use chords to enhance things and do music in a more traditional way; with four channel sampled using a chord means create a sample, more chords = more samples = more RAM and in a way the palette is more limited; if you feel more chords add more soul then in a way you are right because in example i use two samples for chords, min and max - that keep out a considerable palette of other chords due either to RAM or my own lack of musical knowledge.

Add that also the approach is different: FM chip music is a FINAL product: a composer prepared on piano or midi first and then adapted to the machine, while most amiga tracker composers - included me - work "on the fly" making things on the go, that is limiting too depending on time scale and will to work on a piece for a discrete amount of time.

Is not that Amiga music does not have a soul, it just does not match yours!

[gimbal]

Interesting? It said "neither the Amiga or the Megadrive are good systems". Cancel that bastard!