OS4 compatible UAE expansion development status - Page 7

Aegis · 26 January 2016, 14:09

I suspected you'd say as much (I haven't been on EAB long but I've been around the Amiga scene well, since it began).

I sympathize with the frustration - this community (and the companies that service it) has always been its own worst enemy and the lack of cooperation and shared goals between the two has frequently been its undoing.

I'm not suggesting you stick you head above the parapets over at the Hyperion forums only to have the anti-emulation crowd take pot-shots at you but if you can build a useful dialogue with the AOS4 devs then UAE in all its forms can only benefit from that.

Still, it's not for me to suggest what you should or shouldn't do and I'm very grateful for all the work you've done keeping the Amiga dream alive - I'll get back to finding new bugs now

Korodny · 26 January 2016, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Because rumours say it has been done ages ago but it is kept disabled because of reasons.

It's not rumours, Costel Mincea (Hyperion director) stated as much in a Q&A during a German user meeting:

It's implemented, they have an internal build where it works - but it only makes sense for emulator users (Z3 RAM is way too slow on a real Amiga) - and "it's Hyperion's policy not to implement features that would only benefit emulator users". While that sounds like a solid "no", he then goes on the explain that "it has not been decided yet if this feature will be released".

That's from last autumn.

Quote:

I am not so sure about that. Yes, developers probably are happy to answer guestions but probably half of answers will be "NDA required"

Haha, well - that's Hyperion for you. Not sure that makes you feel better, but *that*, at least, is not emulator related

You need to pick the right pepole if you need to discuss technical details and don't care about politics. Olaf Barthel is usually a good choice.

If I had to guess, their strange attitude towards the biggest customer base (emulator users) for 4.1FE is probably caused by legal bullshit. I'm guessing their contracts with developers (most of them former developers, due to financial/legal bullshit) limit them to the PPC architecture, and openly supporting UAE could be seen as an attempt to get around that limitation.

Aegis · 26 January 2016, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korodny

If I had to guess, their strange attitude towards the biggest customer base (emulator users) for 4.1FE is probably caused by legal bullshit. I'm guessing their contracts with developers (most of them former developers, due to financial/legal bullshit) limit them to the PPC architecture, and openly supporting UAE could be seen as an attempt to get around that limitation.

I'm not going to comment further on this since we're going way off-topic but since Hyperion's shown a clear interest in making money from UAE users by selling the Classic .ISO alongside Amiga Forever 2016 at amigaforever.com, I'd see that as a pretty big show of support for emulation.

I'll write to Mike at Cloanto to see if he can bring it up with them but for now - back to testing

Toni Wilen · 27 January 2016, 12:10

Can anyone still duplicate odd OS4 hangs? (using latest version, was updated yesterday) Everything pauses, including mouse pointer, usually only only for few seconds, sometimes much longer and then everything starts working normally again.

Emulator still runs normally, GUI can be opened during the freeze etc..

Aegis · 27 January 2016, 12:18

I thought it was just me - I've been hitting the tab key (for no particular reason) and it seems to start working again

Toni Wilen · 27 January 2016, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegis

I thought it was just me - I've been hitting the tab key (for no particular reason) and it seems to start working again

Do you mean it still happens with 26.1.2016 or newer os4uae version?

Aegis · 27 January 2016, 13:16

Hmm... seems I'm behind (2016.01.25) - I'll test the latest version.

Were you able to confirm my issue with the screenmodes/stuck pointer/pointer missing from WinUAE btw?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegis

You can do it with DOpus 4 included with AmigaOS 4.1

1) I'm running full-window, 16-bit @ 1440x1080
2) Open DOpus, right-click/Project/Configure
3) Select Screen/Screenmode
4) I select 720x540 (half current res) 16-bit - Ok/Use
5) When the screenmode changes my pointer is frozen until I click
6) When I quit DOpus, pointer is frozen again until I click
7) Now if I hit F12, there's no mouse pointer for WinUAE's panel - I have tab through it.

Toni Wilen · 27 January 2016, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegis

Were you able to confirm my issue with the screenmodes/stuck pointer/pointer missing from WinUAE btw?

Too boring task, later..

ccapublic · 27 January 2016, 14:02

Quote:

Lastly, I'd suggest that any readers that are interested in better AOS4 support in WinUAE:

1) make a donation to Toni

2) buy a copy of AOS4FE (if you haven't already)
3) get on the Hyperion forums and state your interest in Z3 support

There's absolutely NO WAY for me to proceed this way. For sure Toni will soon get a donation, but I won't buy 4.1 FE from hyperion before they clearly communicate their position (or simply react by releasing an emulator friendly version) about the growing potential of emulator users.

By the way I suppose the current limitations are only due to the fact emulator emulates a classic. Would it emulate a pegasos, A-one... there would be no such limitations correct ?

Aegis · 27 January 2016, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Too boring task, later..

Hahaha! Fair enough :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccapublic

There's absolutely NO WAY for me to proceed this way. For sure Toni will soon get a donation, but I won't buy 4.1 FE from hyperion before they clearly communicate their position (or simply react by releasing an emulator friendly version) about the growing potential of emulator users.

Hyperion haven't said anything about the future development of AmigaOS (for any platform) since the 30th Anniversary - they're not the most talkative of developers

irrespective, in my opinion, if you're not a customer then you can't really expect them to make any changes that'll benefit you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccapublic

By the way I suppose the current limitations are only due to the fact emulator emulates a classic. Would it emulate a pegasos, A-one... there would be no such limitations correct ?

This was answered in your other thread - yes, the possibility exists to emulate other AmigaOS-compatible platforms but that's not something Toni's interested in doing. Besides, they wouldn't run any faster than WinUAE already does.

ccapublic · 27 January 2016, 14:37

Quote:

if you're not a customer then you can't really expect them to make any changes that'll benefit you

One could interpret it the other way round : I'll become a customer when you provide a reasonably good support for emulation. And I'll never be buying a non emulable version because I can not spend 1k€ for an obsolete hw.

Quote:

that's not something Toni's interested in doing. Besides, they wouldn't run any faster than WinUAE already does.]

Considering Toni's skills I think a winuae supporting non classic hw would run better than any other emulator. But I know he's not interested (for now) and BTW I was not asking for it !

amigafreak68k · 27 January 2016, 14:53

BtT please

Aegis · 27 January 2016, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by amigafreak68k

BtT please

Quite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Do you mean it still happens with 26.1.2016 or newer os4uae version?

Haven't had any more lockups with 26.1.2016

Spoke too soon - still getting the same kinda lockups (unexpected freezes remedied by hitting a key) - they seem less frequent but that could just be a random thing..?

Toni Wilen · 30 January 2016, 13:25

Update:

- some more stability improvements
- uaenet.device supported. (At least OS4 AmiUpdate seems to work with it)

Aegis · 30 January 2016, 16:00

Very nice - uaenet.device is working well in OWB (judging by this post

)

Still getting those random lockups though

Is NOBLITTER still recommended btw?

*Edit* actually I've just noticed than turning NOBLITTER off causes drawing errors on this build.

False alarm, that's something else - WarpDT's transparency handling is busted (messes with the OS4 GUI).

roomeo · 30 January 2016, 17:25

without investigating anything myself. I replace the exe of this beta with the last beta.
The startup process never get to the reboot from 68k side.

Toni Wilen · 30 January 2016, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by roomeo

without investigating anything myself. I replace the exe of this beta with the last beta.
The startup process never get to the reboot from 68k side.

"If you post about any problem: log and winuaelog.txt MUST BE included. Log illegal memory accesses in Misc panel must be checked."

Snake79 · 30 January 2016, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by roomeo

The startup process never get to the reboot from 68k side.

Hi there. I'm having the same problem. OS4.1FE doesn't load. Debug attached.
PS. previous beta was working fine.

Toni Wilen · 30 January 2016, 19:12

Does it work if you disable JIT? (JIT on or off makes no difference with OS4 emulation)

Snake79 · 30 January 2016, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Does it work if you disable JIT? (JIT on or off makes no difference with OS4 emulation)

Yes, after turning off JIT, everything is working again. Thanks.

30 January 2016, 16:00	#135
Aegis Gentleman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: The Fortesque Mansion Posts: 254	Very nice - uaenet.device is working well in OWB (judging by this post ) Still getting those random lockups though Is NOBLITTER still recommended btw? Edit actually I've just noticed than turning NOBLITTER off causes drawing errors on this build. False alarm, that's something else - WarpDT's transparency handling is busted (messes with the OS4 GUI). Last edited by Aegis; 30 January 2016 at 17:41.

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26 January 2016, 14:09	#121
Aegis Gentleman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: The Fortesque Mansion Posts: 254	I suspected you'd say as much (I haven't been on EAB long but I've been around the Amiga scene well, since it began). I sympathize with the frustration - this community (and the companies that service it) has always been its own worst enemy and the lack of cooperation and shared goals between the two has frequently been its undoing. I'm not suggesting you stick you head above the parapets over at the Hyperion forums only to have the anti-emulation crowd take pot-shots at you but if you can build a useful dialogue with the AOS4 devs then UAE in all its forms can only benefit from that. Still, it's not for me to suggest what you should or shouldn't do and I'm very grateful for all the work you've done keeping the Amiga dream alive - I'll get back to finding new bugs now

27 January 2016, 12:10	#124
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Can anyone still duplicate odd OS4 hangs? (using latest version, was updated yesterday) Everything pauses, including mouse pointer, usually only only for few seconds, sometimes much longer and then everything starts working normally again. Emulator still runs normally, GUI can be opened during the freeze etc..

27 January 2016, 12:18	#125
Aegis Gentleman Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: The Fortesque Mansion Posts: 254	I thought it was just me - I've been hitting the tab key (for no particular reason) and it seems to start working again

27 January 2016, 14:53	#132
amigafreak68k Registered User Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Engelsdorf / Germany Posts: 468	BtT please

30 January 2016, 13:25	#134
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Update: - some more stability improvements - uaenet.device supported. (At least OS4 AmiUpdate seems to work with it)

30 January 2016, 17:25	#136
roomeo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Telemark Posts: 207	without investigating anything myself. I replace the exe of this beta with the last beta. The startup process never get to the reboot from 68k side.

30 January 2016, 19:12	#139
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Does it work if you disable JIT? (JIT on or off makes no difference with OS4 emulation)

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