New Atari ST conversion coming to Amiga

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by meynaf

I can help, but only those who want my help.



For this you need to convert all graphics routines, ST screen conversion can't be fast enough.

Btw I have no personal feeling against you or anyone else here, despite what some people think. But I can't work on that port as long as your project is running, and i've been asked to do that game (among others). As you have cleared things up here, fine with me.

You are incorrect i think. Screensize for this game is a lot smaller than more modern ST games, i have a much smaller screen to convert in realtime. Its also not a fast action game, so that helps a lot

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

You are incorrect i think. Screensize for this game is a lot smaller than more modern ST games, i have a much smaller screen to convert in realtime. Its also not a fast action game, so that helps a lot

It may help, but unsure it will be enough. ST games only use the cpu (very few STE games used the blitter) and it may or may not be busy with other things.

My experience with Gauntlet has shown that a 68000 seems to be able to do one frame out of three but the game is slow.
Updating only part of the screen requires to know what part to update, and it's not easy.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by meynaf

It may help, but unsure it will be enough. ST games only use the cpu (very few STE games used the blitter) and it may or may not be busy with other things.

My experience with Gauntlet has shown that a 68000 seems to be able to do one frame out of three but the game is slow.
Updating only part of the screen requires to know what part to update, and it's not easy.

I appreciate that, but for sure, Gauntlet is drawing a hell of a lot more onscreen than this game. Gauntlet is a high action game, this one isn't, this game doesn't run in a frame, therefore it 'shouldnt' look much different on 68000, but this is an aspirational goal, its my intention to do it, doesn't mean I will succeed

[hattig]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Sure you don't like this. But who pretended he was doing a game port and didn't do it ? Perhaps you will ask this thread to be closed, like the other ?

Wow. What's wrong with you?

Originally Posted by meynaf

In addition, perhaps "pushing" Galahad this way, could help him find the motivation, who knows.

If it's just about slow screen update, or control problem, i know these and can help. They're not the tough part for me.

I truly hope that you don't manage people in your day job. Why would anyone want help from someone like you? You're a total demotivator.

Now it seems that you are an expert on porting ST games to the Amiga, so maybe a good thing to do would be to document these things on an Amiga coding wiki somewhere.

As for the graphics rendering issues, surely it is possible to replace the Atari graphics routines with Amiga graphics routines? Find the software blitting routines in the ST codebase, and patch them to call your own blitting routines that make use of the Amiga hardware - even up to the point of having the graphics stored in an Amiga optimised format rather than an ST optimised format.

As for the music, maybe the best option is to redo it as an Amiga .mod and integrate a mod player into the game code, and patch the game music player. Leave a channel free for sound effects.

Maybe this sounds complex, but people have ported 8-bit games between systems with the same CPU in this fashion, just keeping the core game engine intact.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by hattig

I truly hope that you don't manage people in your day job. Why would anyone want help from someone like you? You're a total de-motivator.

I think Maynef is trying to bate Galahad into either releasing a preview or starting coding this project again.

As long as Galahad doesn't see it as offensive I think you'd be amazed how well "I bet you can't do XXXX!" will motivate some coders

I for one would like to see it go forward. I loved this game on my Spectrum. If not I can always dig out my Atari.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Do you really want that :
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=9755
to happen again ?

He promised that port and never did it. Was the port too difficult ? Well, i know if it was or not, as I did it.

Dude, you have some problem.
"I don't care" is the answer to your question.

There are people doing stuff with the Amiga (like you) on their spare time and out of pure love for the platform. I would love stuff to get released but at the same time I have no right to bitch at any of them for never releasing it, cancelling it or just simply losing interest in said projects. That would be extremely hypocritical and also totally unfair and rude.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by hattig

Wow. What's wrong with you?

Have you not understood what I explained ?

Originally Posted by hattig

I truly hope that you don't manage people in your day job. Why would anyone want help from someone like you? You're a total demotivator.

Personal attacks will lead you nowhere.

Originally Posted by hattig

Now it seems that you are an expert on porting ST games to the Amiga, so maybe a good thing to do would be to document these things on an Amiga coding wiki somewhere.

There is nothing specific to document. Every game is a special case. The best doc you can have, is an Atari ST programming book.

Originally Posted by hattig

As for the graphics rendering issues, surely it is possible to replace the Atari graphics routines with Amiga graphics routines? Find the software blitting routines in the ST codebase, and patch them to call your own blitting routines that make use of the Amiga hardware - even up to the point of having the graphics stored in an Amiga optimised format rather than an ST optimised format.

It really depends a lot on the game. Some graphics routines on the ST really are very complicated.

Originally Posted by hattig

As for the music, maybe the best option is to redo it as an Amiga .mod and integrate a mod player into the game code, and patch the game music player. Leave a channel free for sound effects.

Doing this requires to be a musician. Else you can just use chip emulation. Btw I'm still waiting for someone to convert HOMM2's midi files to mod, as i can't do that myself.

Originally Posted by hattig

Maybe this sounds complex, but people have ported 8-bit games between systems with the same CPU in this fashion, just keeping the core game engine intact.

This sounds more complex than it actually is, right.

Originally Posted by alexh

As long as Galahad doesn't see it as offensive I think you'd be amazed how well "I bet you can't do XXXX!" will motivate some coders

Exactly. This works on many of them.

Originally Posted by Akira

Dude, you have some problem.
"I don't care" is the answer to your question.

Why do you come back to add more ? I explained myself here. Perhaps YOU have something personal against me ? Or maybe you just want to troll ? If not, everything has been said already. No, i have no problem, unless you add more.

Originally Posted by Akira

There are people doing stuff with the Amiga (like you) on their spare time and out of pure love for the platform. I would love stuff to get released but at the same time I have no right to bitch at any of them for never releasing it, cancelling it or just simply losing interest in said projects. That would be extremely hypocritical and also totally unfair and rude.

I just wanted to warn people who 100% believe that the game WILL be done, as I personnally believe it will not. It may or may not be done, but too high an expectation leads to deceived people. It was not meant as an attack against Galahad, and I think he has perfectly understood that. Now it's your time to do so.

Btw you can write "i believe you will not do it" in any of my project threads, i won't care. Believe what you want, no problem. So please stop blaming me on just writing my opinion here.

[hansel75]

Your flogging a dead horse Meynaf and adding nothing constructive to this thread apart from arguments, just leave it be mate!

[BippyM]

hansel75 drop it please. Meynaf the issue isn't wjat you meant, it's what you was saying, and how you was saying it..

Now guys this has been resolved. Everyone let it go please or I will start deleting posts and issuing warnings!

[turrican3]

relax everybody,
goodluck for your work Galahad.
And if you can help meynaf, it's great too.

ps: perhaps one day a genesis game conversion !!!!! great challenge for sure

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by turrican3

And if you can help meynaf, it's great too.

Maybe. But there are many other similar projects. I'm not sure several people can be more efficient than one when it's only about code, so for now i'll look if game Oids can be done (apparently several people want this one). Anyone, PM me if you have a link to an uncracked version in .ST (not .STX) format...

Originally Posted by turrican3

ps: perhaps one day a genesis game conversion !!!!! great challenge for sure

Great challenge indeed. These games aren't simple executables with relocs inside, and both the screen format and the FM synth chip really don't help !

[papa_november]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Oids is trickier simply because it was written in Forth I think, which will likely make the code a little obfuscated, and I think its very TOS system reliant.

The original author of OIDS is still around - do you think he would be willing to help you?

And to be honest, with Super Sprint it's a better idea to try and port the arcade version directly. The AI would be better, the music would be better and the graphics would certainly be better. It'd need AGA though. And it'd be a lot harder given the oddball DEC CPU it used.

[fryguy]

Originally Posted by papa_november

The original author of OIDS is still around - do you think he would be willing to help you?

And to be honest, with Super Sprint it's a better idea to try and port the arcade version directly. The AI would be better, the music would be better and the graphics would certainly be better. It'd need AGA though. And it'd be a lot harder given the oddball DEC CPU it used.

Super Sprint is already ported by Meynaf though.

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by fryguy

Super Sprint is already ported by Meynaf though.

And porting a game from another cpu is a totally different story...

[spajdr]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe. But there are many other similar projects. I'm not sure several people can be more efficient than one when it's only about code, so for now i'll look if game Oids can be done (apparently several people want this one). Anyone, PM me if you have a link to an uncracked version in .ST (not .STX) format...

But most people wants International Karate to be ported, with Oids and Starquake taking second spot
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=67425

[tomcat666]

Starquake might be very simple to port too... since it is a turn-screen adventure with not much going in But one hellua game.... always wanted to play that on the Miggy.

[Riempie]

Funny. Starquake was the first game that came to my mind. I have the game on my Atari ST 520 (which I haven't turned on for 10 years). I liked the game although is't a bit difficult to play. I have the original (from a compilation pack of 20 ST-games).

Crack'ed also was a nice simple game.

[s2325]

Originally Posted by Mequa

Hah!

I'm wondering if a port of Robotron: 2084 would be feasible? It would be nice to have a native Amiga port of the game which inspired Llamatron.

someone made Lamertron for Amiga [ Show youtube player ]

[Galahad/FLT]

Thread necromancy ahoy!

Well, now that Putty Squad and other shit is out the way, I thought i'd return to this one.

I now have it running independant of WHDLoad

At the moment it requires any 1meg Amiga minimum, I know the original Atari ST release was 512k, but because of the way this game is being converted, I simply don't have the available memory in 512k to fit all game data, Atari ST screen and Amiga screen with copperlist and all the other Amiga stuff.

Its not much of a problem considering most Amiga owners had 1meg in any case, so its not really a problem.

So, I was worried that the game would be too slow, well actually, running in WinUAE in an A500 setup with exact timing, i've compared it to a video of the Atari ST version running on YouTube, and it doesn't look discernably slower at all, which frankly amazes me.

Also the ingame screen is smaller than 320x200, so I will be able to optimize my screen conversion routine to be quicker because it will have less data to convert, but that can wait for the moment.

I can now use joystick and move around the map and its going as expected. Theres a crash that occurs if I leave the game to sit there, but I think thats simply a memory overlap problem that will be cured in due course.

The music in the game is shit, but, if anyone feels like doing a small 4 channel Protracker module, that would be good.

The game originally stored all the graphics in lower chip mem, well i've transferred that all to fast memory/extra memory so that I had enough room in chip ram for the Amiga screen. I also still have over 100k free, but would obviously like something smaller incase of problems, as i'm running out of memory below the game area for my code to do joysticks, keyboards and all that fun stuff, so if anyone feels like being useful, that would be great to get something running

[Galahad/FLT]

Ingame keyboard and joystick all working.

Now all ingame menus work, even the German selection on the title page.

Fire button now does something, all keyboard presses work as they should.

You can now pick up stuff and give it to characters and move around the sub menus as well.

Walking around the map hasn't produced any problems so far, other than its a bigger game than I realised!