Microbotics M1230XA problem, possibly faulty?

[TjLaZer]

@Akira,

How about just trying another 68030 chip to try and put this issue to rest? That is what I would do. Is your CPU socketed?

http://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewt...&view=previous

[ptyerman]

I also wonder if this has anything to do with timing issues? The ACA cards from Individual Computers and the old Apollo cards both have issues without timing fixes been done on the A1200, sometimes refusing to run at all until the fixes have been done.
Just a thought, but it seems a possibility this card also doesn't like some timing issues.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Did you try the NoAutoVec and NoMemReverse options in the WHDLoad config file as I stated 6 years ago? :-) I had to do this on my M1230XA, or else WHDLoad wouldn't work at all.

I was so exhausted with this issue after spending 3 days in a row testing this out that today i took a day off and didn't touch the 1200. I will try tomorrow.

The CPU IS socketed and I would definitely give it a try if I can know that it won't ruin the card. But as is said around, I suspect the card design is to blame rather than the processor. With that said, if I can find a cheap 030 I can test, I will, again, as long as I know I won't ruin the card completely by doing so.

I'm not sure about motherboard fixes, I think I have an OK motherboard, I'll check tomorrow again.

[TjLaZer]

It's not hard to remove the socketed CPU, I have removed a 68060 no problem before.

[Amiga1992]

I know it isn't hard, I just wonder if it is electrically/electronically safe to put in a CPU the board did not originally come with.

[8bitbubsy]

I've only seen M1230XA's with an XC68030/MC68030, I'm almost certain that the CPU you have is just a newer Freescale alternative that is compatible.
I would first try the WHDLoad config stuff, because I had to do that to get WHDLoad to work at all with M1230XA. Then I would consider changing the CPU.

[Amiga1992]

I tried the WHDLoad options and it seems to be performing the same way, main problem is BC Kid always dying with the same error. I will now test the other games see what's up.

A funny thing though: when I run Whichamiga, it says " 68030MMU not active". I thought 030s had MMUs? Why is it marked as "not active"?

[ptyerman]

The MMU will be inactive unless you install the MMU libraries under Workbench. The Blizzard cards are the same so it isn't anything to be concerned about.

[Amiga1992]

So if I don't install the libraries, it won't work with WHDLoad?
I don't have any libraries that came with the original software, are they generic?

Anyway, all games keep failing no matter how many options of the ones mentioned I enable in WHDLoad. Performance bettered with some of the cache ones, but it is still crashing every now and then with those Line 1111 Emulator errors.

[BarryB]

I replaced the original EC030/40Mhz in my M1230XA with a full 030/50Mhz and it made no noticeable difference to compatability with WHDLoad! Also, WHDLoad disables the MMU by default on an 030 that has one according to the docs so no need to worry about it being an MMU issue on an 030!!

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by ptyerman

I also wonder if this has anything to do with timing issues? The ACA cards from Individual Computers and the old Apollo cards both have issues without timing fixes been done on the A1200, sometimes refusing to run at all until the fixes have been done.
Just a thought, but it seems a possibility this card also doesn't like some timing issues.

I hinted at timing issues being a possible issue in another thread Akira posted to about this problem. The 1230XA is one of the earliest accelerators released for the A1200 and Microbotics went out of business in 1993, the same year the 1230XA was released.......so the board may have had problems that didn't get fixed due to Microbotics going bust (e.g. it doesn't auto-configure memory under KS3.0, so the bundled driver software may do something strange in allocating memory), or "developed" problems once C=/Escom started pumping out dodgy motherboard revisions (see HERE for more info.).

Throw software like WHDLoad into the mix and then factor in all the different slaves made to patch games by various authors, you can appreciate how awesome a task it must be for Bert to improve compatibility, never mind avoid breaking WHDLoad altogether at times! You just have to ask Jeff how hard it was managing code & coding new features, without introducing bugs into JST in the latter days of development!!

Originally Posted by Akira

I'm not sure about motherboard fixes, I think I have an OK motherboard, I'll check tomorrow again.

You really need to provide the revision of your motherboard along with the specs of your A1200 set-up (including what filing system you're using, WHDLoad version, and any network cards and TCP/IP software installed), in order to have some hope of getting to the bottom of all this. These are the type of details that are requested when making a WHDLoad bugreport through Mantis anyway.

Another idea I have is to send my card to Bert to see if he can fix the issues with it in WHDLoad. I feel like many of us have this card and it sucks that WHDLoad doens't work on it. It isn't a bad card really, it's only WHDLoad that gives issues with it.

You can always ask Bert, but sending him your card might be of limited value if he can't simulate your A1200 set-up closely enough (especially motherboard revision). Anyway, we should try and run through possible solutions here first before you ask Bert that, no?

[Amiga1992]

OK step by step, ooh baby

- M1230XA with
--- 64MB IBM RAM @ 70ns
--- 68882 FPU @ 50Mhz
- Motherboard revision is 1D.1. Here's a pic:

- I have no network setup at all and even activated the NoNetwork option in whdload.prefs
- My filesystem is now PFS3AIO,
- WHDload version 18.2 (23.12.2015)

[DrBong]

What versions of Kickstart and Workbench are you using? What about your jumper settings on the Microbotics board? Apparently they can cause problems if they're not set correctly:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25787

If you haven't got a manual to check them, you can download it from these sources:

http://amiga.resource.cx/search.pl?id=mbx1230
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.co...ct.aspx?id=139

EDIT: Oh, and here's yet another EAB thread concerning A1200 accelerators (M1230XA, Apollo etc.) and WHDLoad problems:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=48426

[ptyerman]

It would be interesting to compare results with this and with one of these cards on a A1200 that had all the timing fixes done. It's got to be something related that's causing these problems, nearly everything else has been tried.

[8bitbubsy]

I just got to think of something, Akira. Since your fast RAM is 70ns, you have to make sure that the M1230XA config tool is set to 70ns! This is important, it controls the RAM waitstates. Not sure if you did this already or not. You can find the config tool on the M1230XA install disk, and it will write the changes to the little *PROM chip on the accelerator. The changes aren't lost if you remove the realtime clock battery.
Also no need to install MMU libraries to get the M1230XA to work with WHDLoad.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by DrBong

What versions of Kickstart and Workbench are you using? What about your jumper settings on the Microbotics board? Apparently they can cause problems if they're not set correctly:

Kickstart 3.0, WB 3.0. Memory added by autoxa on bootup.

M1230XA jumper is set correctly (I did it when I added the FPU). CPU and FPU are the same speed so the single 50Mhz crystal is used. I think had these issues even before I got an FPU anyway.

RAM is configured correctly from SetXA (did it when I added RAM). As I said before, I tested the unit with no RAM and WHDLoad still failed.

Does my motherboard need timing fixes done? I thought 1D1 was a pretty solid one. If it does, let me know and I'll get to them.

[ReadOnlyCat]

I have a MX 1230 as well and recently brought it back from my parents' place so I should be able to have a look at that if I start working on WHDLoad.

This said, I am with Photon there. I ran plenty of weird stuff on the MX without issues for about 5 years so I really see no reason for the card to dislike WHDLoad.

[gurrag]

Did you guys ever find out a solution to this problem?

I experience the same problems with my M1230XA as
Akira does, and have tried a bunch of stuff including:

Kickstarts 3.0, 3.1, and a custom 3.9.
Workbench 3.1 and 3.9 (classicwb flavors)

different memory with properly set timings in the utility (64mb and 128mb, will try smaller sticks soon too)

also did the timing fix according to individual computer's wiki.

a bunch of settings in whdload, such as nomemreverse, noautovec, nocache
nommu, mmu.

System is rocksolid in everything else exept whdload, can sit in the DOOM mainmenu watching the built in demo roll by for hours.

System specs is:
A1200 revision 2B recapped by myself with all japanese capacitors.
M1230XA with a 50mhz 68030 and a 68882 33mhz. (2 crystals, have also tried a 33mhz 68030)
64mb ram.
Timing fix from http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/ACA1221#po..._modifications (as this seemed the most up to date)

[Zetr0]

@Thread

Those that are posting issues with their M1230 could they please post the following additional detail as I suspect this might be a timing issue on some and a software issue on others.

Could you post the following (if possible) -

1. Motherboard Revision
2. Motherboard fixes / upgrades (if any)
3. CPU Mask
4. CPU Frequency
5. Memory Size
6. Memory Type (EDO / FPM)
7. Memory Speed (the last digit on the memory SIMM ie. [-6] or [-7] = 60/70ns )
8. OS Version (i.e. Classic Workbench / Workbench 3.1 etc )
9. OS Date (date of its release - i.e. latest 3.1 Classic Workbench etc )
10. WHDLoad Version

With this it will make it easier to determine software / hardware issue.

[glenn]

Originally Posted by zipper

That's a Freescale product but no idea if it differs from a Motorola chip.
>>"SC" prefixes were used by Motorola, and then by Freescale Semiconductor, to mark custom order chips. Motorola and Freescale never published what the differences are between these chips and production "MC" chips. I suspect that SC414075RC50 is just a relabeled MC68030RC50B.

No it's probably not freescale, my MBX1230XA also have one of those weird marked CPU's and its way older than Freescale

I digged into this ~21 years ago and got the reply (from Motorola I think ?) that it was a 68030, but custom ordered.

Someone told me (but I'm not sure if it was a guess or a fact) that those originates from some telephone switch system. ..And probably microbotics got a batch of them cheap.

Originally Posted by Akira

WHDLoad isn't compatible with this card. If you read through this thread you will also see other people having done tests without RAM on it and yielding the same results.

I have used my MBX1230 with Whdload hundred+ of hours, maybe it isn't compatible with speedball 2 (I have no idea) but I have used many many loaders with my card in my A1200, just had to use the right switches.