My new WHDLoad site

[Hungry Horace]

@ Girv, if you or any other whdload slave-authors would like a bit of beta testing, i'll gladly volenteer to take on a few to test. If you think feedback before release is useful, then why not? it's the least that a few of us standard users could volenteer to do, as payback for the hardwork you guys put in. tbh, i wasnt even aware of the yahoo group until it was mentioned here, and i've been a registered whdload user for 8 (?) years now... from what i've read, i still dont think i'll be joining it in a hurry. i could see myself using KG's forum a fair bit tbh, especially if a few of the authors get onboard (no pun intended) there. As nice as the forum here is, the whole of EAB is somewhat crowded anyway!

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by girv

For the record, after I'd asked KG privately to see if such a thing was possible I'd intended to publically post the question of "would such a forum be useful?" ... but I didn't quite get around to it and the discussion seems to have started ahead of me

And FTR II: it wasn't just for me, it was to be for all patchers. I guess I didn't make that clear to KG in my message (sorry).

Anyway, If we can take a step back from the specific idea of a forum on KG's site, the question is really to do with the testing of new slaves before general release on the main WHDLoad page. I can't speak for the other slavers, but I find it difficult to get feedback during development. There is the [WHDLoad] Yahoo! group but I see little (if any) testing going on there or on the developer list. There is another, closed group but it seems a little dead these days.

So what to do?

Is there a need (or desire) to beta test slaves within a small group before general release or am I just torturing myself? If there is a need, is the usual WHDLoad group the best place? What about the EAB WHDLoad forum?

I just want to open the question up for discussion and see what shakes out

@mods: is this better moved to a new thread?

heh i'm a futurist then!

starting from the end of the thread: no i think it's better to leave the two parts of the thread together, because the question regards everybody interested in KG work/site and particularly those who registered in his/your board.

the nut of the problem is about the need of a testing before the slaves are released.
that scenario would need the following conditions: 1) all the slave writers support such a workflow; 2) there are betatesters.
about the first i say that that is unlikely because (without wanting to make counts in another people' pockets) the writer are already fatiguing following their own schedules, after all they volunteer in the project, so that a single slave / slave version could take several months for to be produced. to the second i say that the people involved in the board would be pretty much the same people downloading the installs: if not encompassing all of them, i think that the most of the people that downloaded the insalls in the old site were the people passing by eab (counting of course even the silent lurkers). this means that if the registration at the new board is not conditional to access to the finished installs, pretty much people will just download everything as usual, providing feedback as they would have before when something didn't work: fact is whdload users are not in the millions.
so, far from being against what you propose, i just say that it's an effort that maybe unproportional.

to resume my point about betatesting: all whdload users have already done betatesting and do currently betatesting. no matter where they have so far posted, sooner or later it gets to the writers. moreover, the monthly production of killergorilla installs and revisions, almost fagocitate the need of a betatest before the release.

but.
you are more in the whdload ambient than i could be, and you know more what are the needs of your part of the community. so if you noticed that parts of it are rusty (i don't say instead about the betatesting at the yahoo group, as i've already sayd betatesting it's not a point imho), then to have a congregating point where to discuss more actively whdload installs may be of your use. in that case tough you need to demonstrate other whdload writers, why that forum may be more useful than the one at yahoo and the one at EAB is. for instance, i know Codetapper, even being mod of the whdload section here, has often adressed users of tis board to yahoo or to whdload request module.
so the question is, would another forum be a not needed fragmentation? would have it more pros than the others?

[girv]

Thanks for the long and thoughtful reply.

I take your point about the patcher workload - is a slave worth a "restricted" beta test effort or does just testing it yourself then releasing it into the wild suffice for this situation? Perhaps this very public form of beta testing (release it and be damned!) actually is the best approach for whd slaves, but I guess the software engineer in me makes me hate releasing something as 1.0 that I know is really only 0.9

I don't agree 100% with your point about the WHDLoad audience, though. Yes, anyone who is using WHDLoad will be an Amiga die-hard (the majority will be happy with cracks for use in UAE) and will probably be willing to do some beta testing, but I think that there are a few who are more dedicated again who would be willing to spend time on more thorough testing of more games. Maybe I'm wrong!

But let me ask a slightly different question: let's say I think the workload is worth it (and I don't think it's that much extra really) and let's also say I find a group of volunteers willing to test slaves before release. What's the best place / format to run such a beta test effort? And if I build it, will anyone else come?

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by girv

But let me ask a slightly different question: let's say I think the workload is worth it (and I don't think it's that much extra really) and let's also say I find a group of volunteers willing to test slaves before release. What's the best place / format to run such a beta test effort? And if I build it, will anyone else come?

that's the difficult question!
i think the actual medium, be it forum, portal, blog or whatever's decision comes after deciding this: will you do it for your releases only or for all the whdload writers? in the first case, you could just go for a little blog-like page with comments or even a section of the forum on zetro/KG' domain, where you start a thread in a private area with the link to the beta, betatester people try it and post comments. in this case you could actual do whatever you would like to fit your area to your taste, as the centre of the question is you.
but in the case you have a bigger scope in mind, the real problem is to convince whdload writers, who already are active elsewhere, to select your platform as a privileged one, for not to spend energies inthousand of places, AND to flock all the betatesters already active elsewhere to this place for to have their questions answered in a betterly economic timeframe.
to do this you have to:
1) do a large publicity to your collegues, (actually discuss with them, win them to a better option if that's it)
2) make your mind (you + them) for a good medium; decide if there's need for a new medium or potentiate one of those already alive with an actual betatesting area.
3) make users known in all the canals available: whdload site, slaves readmes, yahoo site, EAB, others.

after all these considerations written down, i think that this can be in the first case of little use (don't take me wrong) for people and for you, but if it could help you as a tinkering table, do it!
in the second case, it would be very helpful to the users community, and i say so because whdload stuff is a little fragmented imho; but i guess almost impossible to do for the consuetude breaking needs for to accomplish it.
by all means, my suggestion is do a little pet blog or separate forum in KG board for your whdload releases only

[Paul]

Trust me to register and then find out the forum will be removed soon. DOH!

[killergorilla]

Yeah I must appologise for that to everyone who registered. At least I made a few quid selling all your email addresses

[Kristian95]

hehehehe

No need for apologies KG, I am sure we all appreciate the work you're doing and I can tell you I will patiently wait for the WHDloads to become available again

[killergorilla]

Update:

I have finished uploading all of the installs I've (re)made thus far. These are individual games singularly installed and they currently stand at exactly 1gb.

I have also finished around 8 of the letter packs and will be uploading tonight or tomorrow most likely.

[Marcuz]

wait a sec, letter packs contains the oldest installs or all the installs so far? and are they only updated to july?

[killergorilla]

These are new letter packs, they contain every whdload install for that letter.

[mrodfr]

hello,

and where It's possible to found ??? on the whdload forum ???
I'm registered and logically see on download but nothing

when clicking on news, It's for moderator only ???

[killergorilla]

There's nothing available yet, I didn't say there was

Just be patient sire.

[Tony Landais]

good news

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

These are new letter packs, they contain every whdload install for that letter.

let me rid you as a gorilla' flea: but when you'll update the stash, as you did monthly, then the letter packs gets obsolete least you'd delete the pack on the server and udload another one. it doesn't look really economic. and since alphabethic directories with single game lha archives would be too hectic to manage, i would say that the way you did before was the best: one downloads the new bunch and deletes the old version of the same game if updated.
the best would be however said alphabetic directories and a list/link to the updated games for direct download. of course, please ignore this post if the workload is unproportionate.

[killergorilla]

This is how I see it working.

I am creating brand new letter packs. #,A,B,C....Z

I'm sure you are with me so far

These packs will be available to all who are registered.

And as always I will then be creating monthly packs which will also be uploaded and available to all (who've registered).

I will also be hosting each game individually but I may have different permissions on these files (not sure yet). The site is after all for the packs, not for individual downloads.

I didn't mean to say that I'd upload the letter packs yet as it's likely they will change by the time I've finished creating all the installs.

What is everyone's opinion on having the games in individual letters inside the monthly archives?

for example:

WHDLOAD AUGUST 2007.zip/A/Assassin_v1.0.zip
WHDLOAD AUGUST 2007.zip/B/Blastar_v1.3.zip

Would people prefer the monthly packs in one dir or to have seperate dirs for each letter to help when unarchiving?

[killergorilla]

Oh and I'll need to upload the clrmamepro dats each month too

[Marcuz]

i'm for 1 dir only inside the packs, but that's because of my arrangement of the files, that goes as this:
i have the original zip files, yours and DeCreator's, safe in a storage area. i rename your monthly files with a number at the start of the file once i've unzipped it, so i know what i have/miss, like this:

Commodore Amiga WHDLoad Games July 2006 Update.zip
>
31 - Commodore Amiga WHDLoad Games July 2006 Update.zip

all the files, decreators and yours go unzipped in a huge directory, inside the installs are lha and zip files. each time i update, i check for new version in the directory. if there are new versions of games i'm interested to, i unzip the new ones in the actual alphabetic directory in my games hardisk for Winuae. then i delete the old versions.
i guess that if you would do alphabetic directories inside your zips, nothing would really change, just i would have to subdivide files. but as the huge directory where i do the check is just for that purpose, for me subdirs are unuseful.
of course that's just me.

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

What is everyone's opinion on having the games in individual letters inside the monthly archives?

for example:

WHDLOAD AUGUST 2007.zip/A/Assassin_v1.0.zip
WHDLOAD AUGUST 2007.zip/B/Blastar_v1.3.zip

Would people prefer the monthly packs in one dir or to have seperate dirs for each letter to help when unarchiving?

I'd prefer letter packs with monthly updates each month and come Xmas each year the letter packs are renewed (re-done) and the monthly updates start again.

[keropi]

@ Methanoid

[Antiriad]

I second Meth's suggestion.