Hyperion WIN - Control rights to AmigaOS - Page 3

Graham Humphrey · 22 October 2009, 16:01

Threads merged

Photon · 22 October 2009, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

Anyone but Bill!

Agh, don't say such things, I foresee t-shirts with slogans printed on them...

If you know me, you'll know what was "Amiga" ended with Commodore. If (from Jope's quote) it had been rights in order to develop an M68k kick/WB 3.2, now that would have at least interested me.

Another thing that would interest me would be if ownership of logo and name would go to someone that makes it a name that excites people and creates nice connotations (to young people that don't know it). That would be cool.

Not to be a miser, AmigaOS was innovative and is a very nice experience. But when you change all the software and hardware, how can it be the same thing? Here comes Bad Analogies Inc. again (uh oh) - if your lover changed sex and personality, how could you love er... him as you did, no matter how many face lifts and liposuctions?

Haha, ok I'm gonna bugger off now...

DDNI · 22 October 2009, 21:37

hmmm, bad analogies... Lets see.... you love your granny dont ya....? She's different to how she was 25 years ago too....

gilgamesh · 22 October 2009, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flink

In terms of conquering Amigans of old (even if it's difficult/improbable to convert non-Amigans), what do you think AmigaOS should have added?

GPLed source. Otherwise it does not stand a chance against the free *NIX systems.

I am happy that at least something happens. Though Amiga's story became weirder with every new owner in the past.

Flink · 22 October 2009, 23:20

Sorry, I should have known you guys wouldn't let something this big slip through...

I think if you boil it down (and I've said this before), the Amiga was a really nice machine, quite ahead of it's time in terms of graphics, sound and expandability. Then there was the operating system, a quick, nimble and efficient system, very expandable, very flexible, customizable almost without limits. Then there was the community. I mean, us. This great platform that was/is the Amiga attracts great people. Smart people, creative people, great gamers.

Amiga (Hardware). AmigaOS (Operating System). Us (Community). We're still here, aren't we? We have no "special" hardware anymore, and probably never will have. But the AmigaOS has evolved, for better or worse, as AmigaOS 4.1, and we're still here. And without us there never would be any Amiga, not as we know it! We had the biggest software repository on the freakin' planet (Aminet), and that shows just how creative and amazing we were!

Now, I still don't think the Amiga will suddenly jump on the mainstream desktop/laptop computing world, stealing market share from Windows, Mac or Linux. But I believe the Amiga can still be successful in a niche market. We were good at niche markets for quite a long time!

One niche market where I believe the Amiga can make a difference is in embedded systems. The OS is small(ish), efficient and stylish enough. It still needs a couple of things (Java, touch support), but it should be easy enough to drive that way. Give the hardware RS232, RS485, I2C, SMB, GPIO, PWM, and give people APIs to control that cleanly on the AmigaOS. Then market the system for the embedded world.

Also, if Hyperion has vision, they will realize that their number one target for the desktop/laptop market is us. We Amigans. We that were there, supporting the platform when everyone else was jumping ship. Many of us would gladly be early adopters, should a clear Amiga system be sold. I know I would.

We have the people, the talent. We still have the OS. The hardware is not very difficult to arrange in these days of globalization. I don't see why we can't have a successful system (and we don't need 2% market share to be successful).

Ok, this is getting long... am I dreaming too much, or is there any sense in all I've written above?

P.S.: Like others said, even if AmigaOS belongs to Hyperion, do they have the rights to make a partnership with (say) ACube and sell a machine marketed directly as an Amiga? I wish they had...

--
Flink
http://flink.formula9.net

Photon · 22 October 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

hmmm, bad analogies... Lets see.... you love your granny dont ya....? She's different to how she was 25 years ago too....

Actually, I had two...

"I loved my grannies! They both had a charming personality, they were modest but nice all the time. You always felt good after a visit; even if they only had old style sugary candy, it was candy. They were quiet, grey and wrinkled and didn't care for the latest DVD movies or 3D games, but their tea and smalltalk was relaxing and when the visit was over I felt I had visited a good old friend."

grannies=Commodore Amigas
candy=games
wrinkles=plastic ventilation grille
tea=pixels
smalltalk=assembler

It's YOU who neglect your grandmas and only spend time with young models hoping their prominent features will soon be in everybody's hands! You... you PIMP!!

*bitter look of accusation and waving of index finger*

Haha

(Phew... that was too much work... giving birth to quintuplets would be less painful... no more please!

)

eLowar · 22 October 2009, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

smalltalk=assembler

That is wrong in so many ways.

NovaCoder · 23 October 2009, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flink

Have you guys seen the latest news on Hyperion having full ownership of the AmigaOS? What do you think?

* Are we going to see more hardware running AmigaOS in the short run?
* What about old G3 and G4 Macs? Do you think it is worth the time to port to this (obsolete) platform?

That's a tough question. We know that OS4 was ported over to the MacMini ages ago and it was only unreleased because of the legal BS. The trouble is that ACube is the supplier of OS4 hardware and would not be a happy bunny if you could also run OS4 on a Mac (eg nobody would buy any more SAM's and imagine how bad all those recent SAM owners would feel).

So although it would be an easy option for them, it's not that simple. They also may not want to go to the trouble of porting to hardware you can't buy new (which is not exactly forward looking IMHO).

Then again with Morph going that way, Hyperion might feel some pressure to follow suit.

I think the best OS4 supporters can hope for in the near future is some steady (and much needed) OS4 enhancements along with some more powerful SAM HW (eg the 460). Longerterm there is no reason that OS4 could not end up on x86.

exoticaga · 23 October 2009, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to....

Granted - Legal rights of use.
Perpetual - Until such time, Legal rights of use are withdrawn.

chiark · 23 October 2009, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by eLowar

That is wrong in so many ways.

Is it clever or sad to admit that I thought *exactly* the same?

tero · 15 November 2009, 02:42

We know it would come...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/a...p?storyid=5151

FOL · 15 November 2009, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tero

We know it would come...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/a...p?storyid=5151

I was wondering, when they were going to remove it,

.

Lets hope the Amiga can finally move forward.

Galahad/FLT · 15 November 2009, 14:28

I just don't see the point anymore. When Amiga was first sold to ESCOM, I truely thought that things might pick up, and then it was passed on again and again.

I have no hopes for Amiga anymore, not as a future wonder machine, it will simply never happen again.

The Amiga 1000/500 were products of their time, with no competition for a long time, those times have passed with dedicated graphic processor manufacturers trying to outdo the next release.

IF, and its a big IF, Amiga came back as a completely new innovative and powerful machine, it would be quickly usurped within a matter of months.

The only future for the Amiga in any form is in embedded systems where WindowsCE is simply too bloated for the simple tasks asked of it.

The only other future for Amiga is to remember the machine as it was, celebrate its strengths and realise theres a world out there.

I use a moderately powerful laptop, and Amiga fan as I am, i'm simply not going to replace it with anything 'new' Amiga at all ever.

i'll enjoy my memories of years gone by, Amiga Inc and Hyperion and anyone else who thinks the Amiga has a future? Such short sighted madness.

Xytec · 15 November 2009, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

Here comes Bad Analogies Inc. again (uh oh) - if your lover changed sex and personality, how could you love er... him as you did, no matter how many face lifts and liposuctions?

Haha, ok I'm gonna bugger off now...

Maybe you'd be the owner of an Apple?

Photon · 15 November 2009, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I have no hopes for Amiga anymore, not as a future wonder machine, it will simply never happen again.

Certainly not as competition to anything modern. Non-game machines like the Mac (or PC with Linux) do the stuff their users want well and fast. Game machines like the PC are also powerful running state of the art games, possibly beaten by the odd PS3 game. All of these come in laptop variant of which some are only slightly less powerful.

So ofc there's no hope in the wonder machine (that's (c) me btw, see the demo ScrewBalls

).

What about what Amiga users needs? Well, there's certainly nothing impossible about satisfying them. They'd be different from each individual, but it's safe to assume they want to play the classic games for a good old time, and use their Workbench at good speed and surf, chat, play music, use apps etc.

This can be done already (possibly with the exception of browser compatibility with modern sites), with say an A1200 like the one in my sig.

What I *could* see as a successful new platform would be such a machine in laptop form, if the "FPGA" has a chipset and 68060 that is fast and compatible enough. I think going to another non-Motorola-Amiga platform would make it a "faster non-Amiga and slower non-PC", basically.

Having some extra screen modes but retaining AGA/OCS support for demos/games would be fine tho, Indivision already has some.

Hm... just realized it pretty much sounds like I'm describing what Jens Schönfeld is doing. Well, I can see an A1200 mobo replacement being licensed for, and people buying, a Pandora-like laptop. But running AmigaOS, demos and games natively in style. If the "booting from harddisk and attaching equipment" support is there, it could be a "continuance" of where the A4000T ran out of oomph, a base platform to start afresh from, if it's good enough.

TCD · 15 November 2009, 20:45

Que? I'm sure you had something in mind when you wrote that, but I can't figure it out

I think Galahad was talking about the 'mainstream' market and I think (apologies in advance if I got that wrong) you're talking about another audience. Point is which HW Hyperion will target with OS 4.2 now and how that will change the current situation.

Paul_s · 16 November 2009, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I just don't see the point anymore. When Amiga was first sold to ESCOM, I truely thought that things might pick up, and then it was passed on again and again.

I have no hopes for Amiga anymore, not as a future wonder machine, it will simply never happen again.

The Amiga 1000/500 were products of their time, with no competition for a long time, those times have passed with dedicated graphic processor manufacturers trying to outdo the next release.

IF, and its a big IF, Amiga came back as a completely new innovative and powerful machine, it would be quickly usurped within a matter of months.

The only future for the Amiga in any form is in embedded systems where WindowsCE is simply too bloated for the simple tasks asked of it.

The only other future for Amiga is to remember the machine as it was, celebrate its strengths and realise theres a world out there.

I use a moderately powerful laptop, and Amiga fan as I am, i'm simply not going to replace it with anything 'new' Amiga at all ever.

i'll enjoy my memories of years gone by, Amiga Inc and Hyperion and anyone else who thinks the Amiga has a future? Such short sighted madness.

ditto. The cuckoo flew the nest for me in 1996'ish when I cancelled my subscription to Amiga Format. I gave up hope of meeting a woman when Amiga Power closed its doors. The best magazine ever made imo

If Hyperion want folk to buy OS4 then they are seriously going to have to transplant it onto x86 based platforms as the SAM stuff is over the top. Why they don't do this is beyond me because;

a) They would be in the same market as W7, Linux etc and could make a small fortune.
b) There is no chance of any real Amiga hardware ever being made again - even if there was it wouldn't be the same would it?
c) If OS4 was made for x86 then we could throw Win (OS4

) UAE onto it which would be orgasmic!
d) Superfrog is still the best game

gilgamesh · 16 November 2009, 19:46

Of course there could be new old Amiga hardware. Somebody send Jeri Ellsworth an email, please.

The real Amiga is called UAE these days, imo. OS4 is interesting, but that's not enough when there is Linux, BSD, etc. around. These are interesting and free (as in speech, or beer, or what you want).

If hyperion released at least the kernel sources for free, then porting would just happen. Amiga OS could have a future as a lean and mean desktop system.

But if things stay as they are, then Amiga OS is only a quite expensive toy for die hard fans.

TCD · 16 November 2009, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

The real Amiga is called UAE these days, imo.

You know that on most Amiga forums that statement is like asking for the lynch mob

prowler · 16 November 2009, 20:08

Lucky for gilgamesh that we're a little more open-minded here on EAB, eh TCD?

22 October 2009, 23:20	#45
Flink Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vale de Cambra, Portugal Posts: 38	Sorry, I should have known you guys wouldn't let something this big slip through... I think if you boil it down (and I've said this before), the Amiga was a really nice machine, quite ahead of it's time in terms of graphics, sound and expandability. Then there was the operating system, a quick, nimble and efficient system, very expandable, very flexible, customizable almost without limits. Then there was the community. I mean, us. This great platform that was/is the Amiga attracts great people. Smart people, creative people, great gamers. Amiga (Hardware). AmigaOS (Operating System). Us (Community). We're still here, aren't we? We have no "special" hardware anymore, and probably never will have. But the AmigaOS has evolved, for better or worse, as AmigaOS 4.1, and we're still here. And without us there never would be any Amiga, not as we know it! We had the biggest software repository on the freakin' planet (Aminet), and that shows just how creative and amazing we were! Now, I still don't think the Amiga will suddenly jump on the mainstream desktop/laptop computing world, stealing market share from Windows, Mac or Linux. But I believe the Amiga can still be successful in a niche market. We were good at niche markets for quite a long time! One niche market where I believe the Amiga can make a difference is in embedded systems. The OS is small(ish), efficient and stylish enough. It still needs a couple of things (Java, touch support), but it should be easy enough to drive that way. Give the hardware RS232, RS485, I2C, SMB, GPIO, PWM, and give people APIs to control that cleanly on the AmigaOS. Then market the system for the embedded world. Also, if Hyperion has vision, they will realize that their number one target for the desktop/laptop market is us. We Amigans. We that were there, supporting the platform when everyone else was jumping ship. Many of us would gladly be early adopters, should a clear Amiga system be sold. I know I would. We have the people, the talent. We still have the OS. The hardware is not very difficult to arrange in these days of globalization. I don't see why we can't have a successful system (and we don't need 2% market share to be successful). Ok, this is getting long... am I dreaming too much, or is there any sense in all I've written above? P.S.: Like others said, even if AmigaOS belongs to Hyperion, do they have the rights to make a partnership with (say) ACube and sell a machine marketed directly as an Amiga? I wish they had... -- Flink http://flink.formula9.net Last edited by Flink; 22 October 2009 at 23:23. Reason: Post Scriptum

15 November 2009, 02:42	#51
tero Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: M'Gladbach Age: 46 Posts: 621	a.inc cleans up We know it would come... http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/a...p?storyid=5151

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22 October 2009, 16:01	#41
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	Threads merged

22 October 2009, 21:37	#43
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,433	hmmm, bad analogies... Lets see.... you love your granny dont ya....? She's different to how she was 25 years ago too....

15 November 2009, 14:28	#53
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 9,014	I just don't see the point anymore. When Amiga was first sold to ESCOM, I truely thought that things might pick up, and then it was passed on again and again. I have no hopes for Amiga anymore, not as a future wonder machine, it will simply never happen again. The Amiga 1000/500 were products of their time, with no competition for a long time, those times have passed with dedicated graphic processor manufacturers trying to outdo the next release. IF, and its a big IF, Amiga came back as a completely new innovative and powerful machine, it would be quickly usurped within a matter of months. The only future for the Amiga in any form is in embedded systems where WindowsCE is simply too bloated for the simple tasks asked of it. The only other future for Amiga is to remember the machine as it was, celebrate its strengths and realise theres a world out there. I use a moderately powerful laptop, and Amiga fan as I am, i'm simply not going to replace it with anything 'new' Amiga at all ever. i'll enjoy my memories of years gone by, Amiga Inc and Hyperion and anyone else who thinks the Amiga has a future? Such short sighted madness.

15 November 2009, 20:45	#56
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,837	Que? I'm sure you had something in mind when you wrote that, but I can't figure it out I think Galahad was talking about the 'mainstream' market and I think (apologies in advance if I got that wrong) you're talking about another audience. Point is which HW Hyperion will target with OS 4.2 now and how that will change the current situation.

16 November 2009, 19:46	#58
gilgamesh Linux snob Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Monkey Island Posts: 997	Of course there could be new old Amiga hardware. Somebody send Jeri Ellsworth an email, please. The real Amiga is called UAE these days, imo. OS4 is interesting, but that's not enough when there is Linux, BSD, etc. around. These are interesting and free (as in speech, or beer, or what you want). If hyperion released at least the kernel sources for free, then porting would just happen. Amiga OS could have a future as a lean and mean desktop system. But if things stay as they are, then Amiga OS is only a quite expensive toy for die hard fans.

16 November 2009, 20:08	#60
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Lucky for gilgamesh that we're a little more open-minded here on EAB, eh TCD?

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