Indivision ECS problem - Page 3

demolition · 09 June 2016, 12:54

And if it fails to boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time, perhaps configuring it to 62 Hz might make it boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time.

DopPie · 09 June 2016, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by amigoun

When it keeps 62Hz, and you have it set to 50Hz already, just run Config Tool and just quit until it comes with the right frequency. IECS reinitializes upon every program quit. Better and faster than switching Amiga off and on.

Its better but still not how it should be. These things should work. Its not like it is a corner case or something. From what I read in this thread there is some silly bug in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demolition

And if it fails to boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time, perhaps configuring it to 62 Hz might make it boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time.

DopPie · 11 June 2016, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by amigoun

When it keeps 62Hz, and you have it set to 50Hz already, just run Config Tool and just quit until it comes with the right frequency. IECS reinitializes upon every program quit. Better and faster than switching Amiga off and on.

I have to do this a lot until it is right. Sometimes up to 20 times. On some occasions the screen does not come back at all and I must powercycle the Amiga. Is this really an accepted bug? I think it is annoying as hell.

demolition · 11 June 2016, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DopPie

I have to do this a lot until it is right. Sometimes up to 20 times. On some occasions the screen does not come back at all and I must powercycle the Amiga. Is this really an accepted bug? I think it is annoying as hell.

Jens knows about the bug, but has ignored it for years unfortunately, so I don't expect it to ever be fixed. Which firmware are you using? I found that using the older 1.01 revision worked a bit better for me in this regard although it still exhibited the problem.

amigoun · 11 June 2016, 13:05

Isnt it because of Oliver who made the logic does not work for IC anymore? I think that is the reason the bug is not fixed for years.

johey · 03 August 2016, 22:35

I have not used my IV ECS for three years because of this frustrating shit of a bug. Jens really should cut down on his ignorance and deal with it. I will not touch any of his products again until he shows some kind of responsibility, and I have had to recommend potential customers to completely avoid his products.

TuKo · 27 September 2016, 08:35

Also affected by this bug.

Could someone sum up how to fix it ?

demolition · 27 September 2016, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuKo

Also affected by this bug.

Could someone sum up how to fix it ?

There is no fix afaik. I just live with it.

turrican9 · 29 September 2016, 21:48

I see one possible solution. If someone could reprogram the core so it defaults to the 50Hz 1:1 profile instead of the 62Hz 1:25 profile. People could then choose what of these cores they wanted. I'm sure the problem would be gone if 1:1 50Hz profile was made to default. Bug would probably be reverted then. So the 1:25 profile would behave the same the 1:1 does now. But it wouldn't matter for us who only wish to use the 1:1 profile anyway.

It is possible to tune the 1:25 profile down to 50Hz. But it will cause a bit of screen tearing and the size of the picture will be a bit smaller if one gonna keep the aspect ratio.

I may try to connect some extra grounding to my Indivision ECS this weekend. I have one in my A600 and have one spare which I will put in one of my A500s. I already tried it in my A500 with the grounding that comes with the indivision ECS. Same problem. But maybe I should try and connect some extra grounding. Just to see.

demolition · 29 September 2016, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican9

I see one possible solution. If someone could reprogram the core so it defaults to the 50Hz 1:1 profile instead of the 62Hz 1:25 profile. People could then choose what of these cores they wanted.

That could be, but the only one who could do that is Jens since it is practically impossible to reverse engineer the firmware for the FPGA. Even without encryption it is very hard to do and I expect he uses encryption on top as most do.

The 50/60 Hz thing is not the only setting that is random though, although it is the most common. I have also seen it start up without scan lines although I have them enabled. A reboot also sorted that, but it does not happen very often. If the 50/60 Hz thing could be sorted, then it would be 99% good.

I have connected an extra grounding wire to my Indy as well and it didn't seem to change anything. Even running completely without the grounding wire doesn't make it worse.

DopPie · 30 September 2016, 08:20

He just screwed up its timing to its eeprom probably. Since the device is selling why should he fix it. The splash screen is rather pretentious and annoying due to this. "Good hardware for good computers" should be "Tolerable hardware for great computers" or something. I just switched to 60Hz and let it be. Someday I hope to replace the indi with a better solution.

turrican9 · 30 September 2016, 15:55

yeah, this is really annoying. I have been using BenQ BL 702As connected directly to the RGB. Very smooth, but those scanlines from the Indivision ECS makes all the difference. So I want to have scanlines with smooth 50Hz.

This brings me to another question, will the SLG3000 scanline generator work between a RGB to VGA adapter and the screen? will the SLG3000 handle the RGB signal? If it could then this could be my solution. If not, are there any other scanline generators that would work? BenQ BL 702A connected directly to the RGB gives a very nice and smooth picture but it's missing scanlines. This is why I wanted to use the Indivision ECS at 50Hz. But this bug is so annoying.

Jope · 30 September 2016, 16:17

Afaik the slg expects line doubled 31kHz. Your benq performs the line doubling internally, so the slg can't get in between there.

turrican9 · 30 September 2016, 17:11

Thanks for the answer, Jope. So I know there is a jumper on the Indivision ECS. I think it's there if you use two Indivision Scandoublers connected together. So has anyone tried to move this jumper to the two other pins when using only one scandoubler? Maybe it will register it as secondary screen and maybe this could change something related to the bug? Not very likely, but who knows

turrican9 · 01 October 2016, 14:19

I read that if you put the SLG3000 in between a 15KHz signal and the screen it will still work, but the scanlines will be twice as thick VS 31KHz.

Also, I was looking at the RetroVGA scanline generator SLG for VGA connection MAME or Arcade Machine. I sent the seller a message asking if it would work on a 15KHz Amiga signal. He said he believed it would but hadn't tested it himself. So I took my chance and ordered two of these. They are rather cheap anyway.

The thing with the BenQ BL 702A screens is that they will have a slight blur at it's default sharpness level 1 when used on the RGB, but still a sharp and nice picture. This blur makes it so it will not be more pixelated VS the same screen connected to the Indivision Scandoubler with scanlines on. I did a side by side comparison. But I would still like scanlines.

Edit: The Indivision ECS has rather bad picture quality in 31KHz mode. At least on the BL 702A's. I get this Horizontal banding on both the Amiga 600 and 500. In 15KHz mode the Amiga 600 has a really nice picture but the Amiga 500 still has banding in this mode. I seem to remember this was not too bad on some other screens I tried. BL 702A's look really good when they are connected directly to RGB. These are not old Indivision ECS units. They were bought last year. So if I can get scanlines to work directly between the RGB and screen it would be perfect. If the Indivision ECS didn't have these problems then it would be an excellent product.

Edit2: I also have a 19 inch 1280x1024 LG LCD screen from 2004. I believe it's my first LCD ever. This one only work in 31KHz mode. However, this one does not have the banding when connected to the Indivision ECS and only have slight ghosting. That slight ghosting you will get will all Indivision ECS units as far as I know. This screen does not look right if I turn on the scanlines but looks very good without scanlines. Also, the stuttering at 62Hz is not as bad as with the BL 702A screens. BL 702A is of course butter smooth when connected directly to the RGB or when Indivision ECS is in 15KHz mode.

turrican9 · 08 December 2016, 17:07

So have anyone tried older Cores than 1.01? I know there are some older cores from googling. Like Core 1.0, core 0.99 etc.. etc... I want to try them to see if they have the same bug with regards to the 50Hz 1:1 profile reverting back to 62Hz

So where can I download these older cores? Cannot find them anywhere

Edit: Seen several people report that the bug is even worse if they update from Core 1.01 to Beta Core 1.10. Saved settings will reset much more often with Core 1.10. So this is part of the reason I'm looking for older cores than V1.01. Maybe older cores don't have this problem

turrican9 · 08 December 2016, 17:40

If no one knows where to download older Indi ECS cores than V1.01 can somone PM me email address to Jens so I can ask him where to get older cores

turrican9 · 14 August 2017, 22:57

anyone tried firmware version 1.15? It is new, but listed as june 3rd 2012. It has never been available for download before recently. http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_ECS

Info for the firmware release: pure update file, please flash with flash tool. This includes changes of V1.10, but uses lower power settings for the FPGA, which may improve performance with flaky power supplies.

funny thing is I PM'd Jens about this issue late last year I think it was. He told me he had planned some work on the Indi ECS somtime early 2017. This low power setting is interesting. I wonder if this could be some kind of fix for the 50Hz setting not being kept at coldboot.

Gonna try it tomorrow

turrican9 · 15 August 2017, 17:17

Sadly this firmware has the same problem where the 50Hz setting will randomly switch back to 62Hz mode.

system11 · 19 October 2017, 17:19

Glad I saw this thread, I was considering buying one and reliable 50hz is essential. Why isn't it just a jumper setting?

29 September 2016, 21:48	#49
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	I see one possible solution. If someone could reprogram the core so it defaults to the 50Hz 1:1 profile instead of the 62Hz 1:25 profile. People could then choose what of these cores they wanted. I'm sure the problem would be gone if 1:1 50Hz profile was made to default. Bug would probably be reverted then. So the 1:25 profile would behave the same the 1:1 does now. But it wouldn't matter for us who only wish to use the 1:1 profile anyway. It is possible to tune the 1:25 profile down to 50Hz. But it will cause a bit of screen tearing and the size of the picture will be a bit smaller if one gonna keep the aspect ratio. I may try to connect some extra grounding to my Indivision ECS this weekend. I have one in my A600 and have one spare which I will put in one of my A500s. I already tried it in my A500 with the grounding that comes with the indivision ECS. Same problem. But maybe I should try and connect some extra grounding. Just to see. Last edited by turrican9; 29 September 2016 at 22:45.

01 October 2016, 14:19	#55
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	I read that if you put the SLG3000 in between a 15KHz signal and the screen it will still work, but the scanlines will be twice as thick VS 31KHz. Also, I was looking at the RetroVGA scanline generator SLG for VGA connection MAME or Arcade Machine. I sent the seller a message asking if it would work on a 15KHz Amiga signal. He said he believed it would but hadn't tested it himself. So I took my chance and ordered two of these. They are rather cheap anyway. The thing with the BenQ BL 702A screens is that they will have a slight blur at it's default sharpness level 1 when used on the RGB, but still a sharp and nice picture. This blur makes it so it will not be more pixelated VS the same screen connected to the Indivision Scandoubler with scanlines on. I did a side by side comparison. But I would still like scanlines. Edit: The Indivision ECS has rather bad picture quality in 31KHz mode. At least on the BL 702A's. I get this Horizontal banding on both the Amiga 600 and 500. In 15KHz mode the Amiga 600 has a really nice picture but the Amiga 500 still has banding in this mode. I seem to remember this was not too bad on some other screens I tried. BL 702A's look really good when they are connected directly to RGB. These are not old Indivision ECS units. They were bought last year. So if I can get scanlines to work directly between the RGB and screen it would be perfect. If the Indivision ECS didn't have these problems then it would be an excellent product. Edit2: I also have a 19 inch 1280x1024 LG LCD screen from 2004. I believe it's my first LCD ever. This one only work in 31KHz mode. However, this one does not have the banding when connected to the Indivision ECS and only have slight ghosting. That slight ghosting you will get will all Indivision ECS units as far as I know. This screen does not look right if I turn on the scanlines but looks very good without scanlines. Also, the stuttering at 62Hz is not as bad as with the BL 702A screens. BL 702A is of course butter smooth when connected directly to the RGB or when Indivision ECS is in 15KHz mode. Last edited by turrican9; 01 October 2016 at 16:00.

08 December 2016, 17:07	#56
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	So have anyone tried older Cores than 1.01? I know there are some older cores from googling. Like Core 1.0, core 0.99 etc.. etc... I want to try them to see if they have the same bug with regards to the 50Hz 1:1 profile reverting back to 62Hz So where can I download these older cores? Cannot find them anywhere Edit: Seen several people report that the bug is even worse if they update from Core 1.01 to Beta Core 1.10. Saved settings will reset much more often with Core 1.10. So this is part of the reason I'm looking for older cores than V1.01. Maybe older cores don't have this problem Last edited by turrican9; 08 December 2016 at 17:18.

14 August 2017, 22:57	#58
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	anyone tried firmware version 1.15? It is new, but listed as june 3rd 2012. It has never been available for download before recently. http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_ECS Info for the firmware release: pure update file, please flash with flash tool. This includes changes of V1.10, but uses lower power settings for the FPGA, which may improve performance with flaky power supplies. funny thing is I PM'd Jens about this issue late last year I think it was. He told me he had planned some work on the Indi ECS somtime early 2017. This low power setting is interesting. I wonder if this could be some kind of fix for the 50Hz setting not being kept at coldboot. Gonna try it tomorrow Last edited by turrican9; 14 August 2017 at 23:07.

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09 June 2016, 12:54	#41
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 44 Posts: 4,190	And if it fails to boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time, perhaps configuring it to 62 Hz might make it boot to 50 Hz 90% of the time.

11 June 2016, 13:05	#45
amigoun Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Czech Rep Posts: 599	Isnt it because of Oliver who made the logic does not work for IC anymore? I think that is the reason the bug is not fixed for years.

03 August 2016, 22:35	#46
johey Registered User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Stockholm / Sweden Posts: 49	I have not used my IV ECS for three years because of this frustrating shit of a bug. Jens really should cut down on his ignorance and deal with it. I will not touch any of his products again until he shows some kind of responsibility, and I have had to recommend potential customers to completely avoid his products.

27 September 2016, 08:35	#47
TuKo Apollo Team Join Date: May 2014 Location: not far Posts: 381	Also affected by this bug. Could someone sum up how to fix it ?

30 September 2016, 08:20	#51
DopPie Zone Friend Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Den Hoorn, NL Age: 45 Posts: 259	He just screwed up its timing to its eeprom probably. Since the device is selling why should he fix it. The splash screen is rather pretentious and annoying due to this. "Good hardware for good computers" should be "Tolerable hardware for great computers" or something. I just switched to 60Hz and let it be. Someday I hope to replace the indi with a better solution.

30 September 2016, 15:55	#52
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	yeah, this is really annoying. I have been using BenQ BL 702As connected directly to the RGB. Very smooth, but those scanlines from the Indivision ECS makes all the difference. So I want to have scanlines with smooth 50Hz. This brings me to another question, will the SLG3000 scanline generator work between a RGB to VGA adapter and the screen? will the SLG3000 handle the RGB signal? If it could then this could be my solution. If not, are there any other scanline generators that would work? BenQ BL 702A connected directly to the RGB gives a very nice and smooth picture but it's missing scanlines. This is why I wanted to use the Indivision ECS at 50Hz. But this bug is so annoying.

30 September 2016, 16:17	#53
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,879	Afaik the slg expects line doubled 31kHz. Your benq performs the line doubling internally, so the slg can't get in between there.

30 September 2016, 17:11	#54
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	Thanks for the answer, Jope. So I know there is a jumper on the Indivision ECS. I think it's there if you use two Indivision Scandoublers connected together. So has anyone tried to move this jumper to the two other pins when using only one scandoubler? Maybe it will register it as secondary screen and maybe this could change something related to the bug? Not very likely, but who knows

08 December 2016, 17:40	#57
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	If no one knows where to download older Indi ECS cores than V1.01 can somone PM me email address to Jens so I can ask him where to get older cores

15 August 2017, 17:17	#59
turrican9 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Norway Age: 47 Posts: 893	Sadly this firmware has the same problem where the 50Hz setting will randomly switch back to 62Hz mode.

19 October 2017, 17:19	#60
system11 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: UK Posts: 82	Glad I saw this thread, I was considering buying one and reliable 50hz is essential. Why isn't it just a jumper setting?

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