An idea for continued games development... using Amiga

[Exit]

but on these other platforms you will be one in a thousand other games..how do you suppose to stand out of the crowd?

[IFW]

I remember iOS devices used to have a policy of not accepting software running on VMs or middleware - as long as it was spotted I guess...
You are better off checking the relevant TRCs or whatever Apple have... obviously a non-issue for Android, I guess you'd want to mix a few lines of startup code with NDK on that platform.
You could also consider working on Minis for Sony platforms, those could work on both PSP and PS3 with the same file going through a simple QA.

[demoniac]

There would be 2 layers of potential issues. Say the Amiga side is working 100%, you will have to make sure the emulator doesn't have any compatibility issues on different mobile OSes. You might have performance problems as well. Also you have to determine who is controlling the emulator. Are you going to use whatever is available or have use only specific emulator version to run your code? If the emulator is updated, will it screw up your game?

[Zetr0]

@Big G,

over the last week I have been installing my laptop with all manner of Amiga Software languages and an Android Dev suit =D

Been playing around with amiga-game development for the last couple of years.

lol - its only been ....15/16 years since I last coded a project on the Amiga...

It would be an honour to work with you on a project, all I ask is we split work and remuneration fairly and that android (uae) be the initial target platform. Ipoo'd and other VM stations later.

And if we can - it would be awesome to release a version for the Amiga Community Free =D

I have some ideas and I would be more than happy to share them with you =D

[demoniac]

I forgot to mention that you'll have to worry about compatibility whenever mobile phone OS is upgraded.

[BippyM]

Captive and EOB/DM type games would work extremely well on a touch screen device.

Imagine pressing the arrows on screen for movement. Much quicker than a mouse!!

[Zetr0]

I think simple interface games should work well with touchscreen tech.

things like RTS, turn based stratagems, RPG's and Dungeon crawlers should translate well, also with 2D/2.5D driving games should be usable enough - as long as its either side of the action screen to turn left/right - slide-screen for turning is never implemented well - infact I think slide-touch-screen for turning is flawed idea at best..

However, perhaps the hardest interface for touch screen to replicate well would be platform games.

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by bippym

Captive and EOB/DM type games would work extremely well on a touch screen device.

Imagine pressing the arrows on screen for movement. Much quicker than a mouse!!

OT: There are a few Amiga DM-ish games (at least two) which allow you to use the numpad for moving (besides clicking on arrows with the mouse):
Crystal Dragon
Legions of Dawn

[TCD]

Are you sure that EOB and DM themselves don't support the numpad? I think that at least EOB does (would have to check it again though).

Edit : Just tried EOB and it does support movement with the numpad

[lilalurl]

You may be right. I'll give a quick try after this post.

I don't remember if I had noted those two games for being able to use the keyboard/numpad or for being able to use them for strafing (although from my comment in the Crystal Dragon thread I guess it was the former).

Edit: Just saw your edit, thanks for saving some time

[TCD]

Just to save yourself even more time : DM (v3.60 at least) also supports the almighty numpad

I think (you better don't quote me on this one), that pretty much every pseudo-3D dungeon crawler supports the numpad for movement. The 'Dungeons of Avalon' series does as well.

That much for the 'ultimate dungeon crawler control method' stuff

[Vairn]

Black crypt does, as well.

[BippyM]

the numpad (nor any keys) would be as well mapped to the touchscreen as just pressing the button on screen. Oh and Captive does.. But I already knew that

[Exit]

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1&note=29779

maybe develop for natami?

[killergorilla]

Originally Posted by Exit

http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1&note=29779

maybe develop for natami?

Galahad actually wants to make money from this

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Exit

but on these other platforms you will be one in a thousand other games..how do you suppose to stand out of the crowd?

Maybe so, but it is also a market that is prepared to PAY for games, where precious few on the Amiga would.

Originally Posted by demoniac

There would be 2 layers of potential issues. Say the Amiga side is working 100%, you will have to make sure the emulator doesn't have any compatibility issues on different mobile OSes. You might have performance problems as well. Also you have to determine who is controlling the emulator. Are you going to use whatever is available or have use only specific emulator version to run your code? If the emulator is updated, will it screw up your game?

Not so. If you cater for the basic Android setup, it should work on all Android capable machines without problems, if there are issues, then thats solely down to people not following proper Android implementations on their respective devices.

The plan would be to work with someone who does the emulator, so that as time goes by, better versions of the emulator are implemented.

The fact is, this isn't really a problem. If there is found to be a problem with doing something within the emulator, and it doesn't emulate 100% what I expect, then either a discussion with the author of the emulator needs to be had to fix it, or simply do it a different way to get the results I expect.

Either way, I would expect most effects and the like to work well within an emulated environment, because I want it all working smoothly with no slowdowns, so if a particular effect is too taxing for the most basic Android capable machine, then that effect would be optimised or changed for something less taxing.

Originally Posted by demoniac

I forgot to mention that you'll have to worry about compatibility whenever mobile phone OS is upgraded.

No I won't. So long as the emulator caters for the base standard of Android, there is no reason to assume that the Emulator core would fail on subsequent updates of the OS, and if it did, then it would be down to the author of the core to fix the problem, so that a free patch could be offered for existing users of the game.

Originally Posted by Vairn

@Galahad: It wouldn't be hard to give you an emulator, which does what you require, mine has no real GUI ATM anyway, all It needs is a cfg file.

I also wonder if you can put copy protection in it which makes it require the emulator, so if someone does rip it, it wont work

I think it is a brilliant idea too.

You've/You're doing a version? If so, we need to speak mate.

A level of copy protection would actually be very easy, implementing a WHDLoad style keyfile needed to unlock the game beyond demo features.

Any would be crackers would have to know 68000 ASM to be able to crack it, and would need to know the same if they intended to build a keygen for the games.

Obviously someone skilled enough as an Amiga programmer could break the protection, but whether or not they'd actually want to is another matter, it wouldn't be immediately obvious to anyone it was actually 68000 ASM and not JAVA or ARM.

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Big G,

over the last week I have been installing my laptop with all manner of Amiga Software languages and an Android Dev suit =D

Been playing around with amiga-game development for the last couple of years.

lol - its only been ....15/16 years since I last coded a project on the Amiga...

It would be an honour to work with you on a project, all I ask is we split work and remuneration fairly and that android (uae) be the initial target platform. Ipoo'd and other VM stations later.

And if we can - it would be awesome to release a version for the Amiga Community Free =D

I have some ideas and I would be more than happy to share them with you =D

Well, I would be happy with the involvement of others, I can't do it all on my own, and am happy to share the proceeds with others involved.

This isn't actually about the money for me, as i'm actually doing alright with my present business, but obviously money has to be a factor to make something like this work, and would be a welcome bonus should it be successful.

My overriding concern is to actually see this idea through to its logical conclusion, as without bigging myself up too much, I think its a bloody good idea and theres no reason why it can't work.

I do know that the restrictions on what you can or can't do on Android are less as they obviously want to give Ipad/Iphone a kicking.

[Zetr0]

One of the beauties here is that we needn't be restricted to ECS/AGA

with the static implementation of the emulation environment, we could use a 4MB RTG - thus more colours - greater screen res - faster graphics.

Essentially the emulation wont be dogged down by the process overhead of the ECS/AGA graphics chip set =)

yeah... so we could make Doom Clones for dungeon crawlers lol =)

[Vairn]

@Zetro, Doom clones for dungeon crawlers aren't as good as the old Square by square ones. imho. 3d bah.
I have a RTG emulation implementation started, needs more testing though.

I am trying to do something a little more then the other emu. Unfortunately it isn't as optimised. but to support all Iphones, I can't use assembly cause all iphones before the 3gs are arm6, vs arm7. so I would need to optimise both.
ATM if your on a 3gs/3g/2g or earlier Iphone touch, it uses a different CPU core, while the iphone 4, ipod touch 4, and ipad get a more compatible but slower (atm) CPU which can do 020+, and AGA. (WIP)

With time I could get people direct access to openGL on the phone too. or atleast a memory location where they just write the pixels directly etc, an "accelerometer.device", these are all insane Idea's that float around my mind. hehe.

@Galahad, True, I can implement whatever I want into where the rom is, so certain memory addresses can return a response, where a real amiga wont do anything. Keyfile is the rom etc.

There are other non real amiga things we should be able to do too.

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by Vairn

@Zetro, Doom clones for dungeon crawlers aren't as good as the old Square by square ones. imho. 3d bah.

Oh I agree - just look at Eye of the Beholder 3 - its a great story but it feels wrong.

To be fair the chunky buffer display being used as a DooM type game would be "because we could" =)

personally I think a 2D chunky buffer with Scaling would be a HUGE boon for Amiga game development - the beauty of running a transparent inline emulation environment is that we can have

1. a target machine for all development
2. the ability to take it up a notch if and so needed
3. copyright protection would be best if encapsulated with the emulator

So the game will only work with that transparent emulator - or an encoded ROM file?

However, one should be mature enough to understand that a illegitimate copy is not a loss in sale - as the person was never going to buy it in the first place. so I do hope that this area doesn't hold up production.

[Vairn]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

However, one should be mature enough to understand that a illegitimate copy is not a loss in sale - as the person was never going to buy it in the first place. so I do hope that this area doesn't hold up production.

indeedy, I agree 100%.