Rastan port for A500 1MB (demo available)

[TCD]

Originally Posted by saimon69

By the way, i did look at the best of the bunch of ports, the Apple IIgs version; no parallax,ok, but the background in the latter levels brings some confusion

I'm not very familiar with the original, but do you mean the red background towards the end?

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by TCD

I'm not very familiar with the original, but do you mean the red background towards the end?

There are definitely bits, like the all blue level 4B in that video that are very much "Wait. You can stand on that?" And that's watching on a sharp modern display, I can only imagine it would've been a bit more difficult back in the day on a blurry CRT. Although some bits like the rocks emerging from the fire just look like they'd be awful to see regardless. The arcade equivalent definitely has a lot more contrast which helps to distinguish things (although still has all the horrible drop down off a platform and hope for the best gameplay "features")

[Bren McGuire]

i agree and i dont like escalation i apologize is just that i am being misinterpreted and i get frustrated especially when told a bunch of stuff i already know but is not related to the matter. it always feels like any amiga development is not to be criticised or people lose their mind my critique comes from wanting this to look the best ever and seeing such wonderful character sprites i know the developer can probably work more on the backgrounds and make them look better

people are basically just saying "limitations" without even thinking and making things stop there. if all Amiga developers had that mentality we would have never seen amazing breakthrough games like we have

Originally Posted by Tsak

Look, I think this has escalated for no good reason.

[mcgeezer]

I've given this one a go and it's very good!

Just be aware that if you bump it to 32 colours then you'll lose 25% CPU.

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

I've given this one a go and it's very good!

Just be aware that if you bump it to 32 colours then you'll lose 25% CPU.

Which is why an 1200/CD32 conversion would help a lot

[basementApe]

Thanks for the comments and feedback everybody I'm kind of overwhelmed by the massive positive response and don't really know what to say, except I really appreciate it and I'm glad you all like it


@Bren:
I agree with you that the level 1-1 tiles in the alpha are a bit lifeless and dull, and I appreciate the feedback. It's not because I'm slacking tho Tsak is 100% right about the things he pointed out. Also when it comes to doing tiled backgrounds and using Scorpion for that matter, I'm kind of learning as I go. In fact I feel I didn't really hit the groove on the tile stuff until I got to the castle/temple portion. The thing to remember is that this is *not* finished. Everything you see now might change as I make more progress, and parts of it probably will. I get things up and running, bugfix, flesh out, do something else, come back and iterate as I figure out how to do things better etc. It's not a linear process.


@Cris1997XX:
I've been partial to the OCS look ever since I saw how Chaos Engine AGA looked compared to the OCS version. Personal opinion: A full 256 color palette is way more than most pixel art ever needs and can easily hurt the art more than it helps. Here are some advantages I think working with limited colors give you:

- More visual clarity.
- A more cohesive look.
- Cleaner results.
- Easier color swaps and color management in general.

If you take a trip to pixeljoint.com and look around you'll see that many pixel artists there use very few colors, and it's because it forces them to make better choices with their artwork basically. The stricter the limits, the more conscious you have to be about where you place every single pixel and why.

Going back to Chaos Engine, sure the AGA version looks good and is obviously more colorful. But imo the OCS version is the one that really shines. The gfx are just a little bit less generic-looking and a little bit more cohesive and interesting to look at.


--

In other news I got an update coming very soon that'll have:

- Updated and improved level 1-1 music by Tsak.
- Fixes for most of the bugs people came across in 0.20.
- Couple of gameplay tweaks.
- Upgraded level 1-1 visuals.

Here's a preview:
https://vimeo.com/844527467?share=copy

[viddi]

Great update! Love the copper, too.

Is it possible or do you like to include a STATIC layer in the background?
Could add some depth without too much perfomance issues, I guess?!

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by basementApe

@Cris1997XX:
I've been partial to the OCS look ever since I saw how Chaos Engine AGA looked compared to the OCS version. Personal opinion: A full 256 color palette is way more than most pixel art ever needs and can easily hurt the art more than it helps. Here are some advantages I think working with limited colors give you:

- More visual clarity.
- A more cohesive look.
- Cleaner results.
- Easier color swaps and color management in general.

If you take a trip to pixeljoint.com and look around you'll see that many pixel artists there use very few colors, and it's because it forces them to make better choices with their artwork basically. The stricter the limits, the more conscious you have to be about where you place every single pixel and why.

Going back to Chaos Engine, sure the AGA version looks good and is obviously more colorful. But imo the OCS version is the one that really shines. The gfx are just a little bit less generic-looking and a little bit more cohesive and interesting to look at.

I wasn't implying 256 colors outright. Heck, that is too much even for most Amiga games. I mostly meant higher quality music, less loading, parallax scrolling with the sprites, etc. Still, I can understand where you're coming from

[Bren McGuire]

see that's the spirit mate i am glad you responded and I didn't mean to imply you were being lazy more like you couldn't be bothered. now knowing that you agree with me i am sure that will be solved at some point as i said repeatedly it is clear that you have a lot of talent and can figure this out

i'm the first one to admit when i fuck up and i will now say that the copper banding on the sky has helped this A LOT am looking forward to see what you do with the floor now!

i noticed a bug when you press fire to attack if you press the opposite direction your character is facing our hero develops a case of " broken spine" hope this report helps you fix it

Originally Posted by basementApe

@Bren:
I agree with you that the level 1-1 tiles in the alpha are a bit lifeless and dull, and I appreciate the feedback. It's not because I'm slacking tho Tsak is 100% right about the things he pointed out. Also when it comes to doing tiled backgrounds and using Scorpion for that matter, I'm kind of learning as I go. In fact I feel I didn't really hit the groove on the tile stuff until I got to the castle/temple portion. The thing to remember is that this is *not* finished. Everything you see now might change as I make more progress, and parts of it probably will. I get things up and running, bugfix, flesh out, do something else, come back and iterate as I figure out how to do things better etc. It's not a linear process.

[basementApe]

Originally Posted by viddi

Great update! Love the copper, too.

Is it possible or do you like to include a STATIC layer in the background?
Could add some depth without too much perfomance issues, I guess?!

Humm maybe the mountain range? I'll have to test that.

@Cris1997XX:
Right, makes sense. I'll release a HD version so that'll help with loading times at least.

@Bren:
Lol yup, already fixed that one

[Mixel]

Originally Posted by basementApe

Humm maybe the mountain range? I'll have to test that.

That would be pretty easy in AGA but with OCS would require a background made of 32px repeating columns.. and uses up a ton of chip ram.. And would knock out 3 more colours from your main palette.

[basementApe]

Oops yeah maybe not then.

It's been a while since I had an A1200 kicking about. Well a physical A500 too for that matter. The sound chip on A1200 and up uses some kind of emulation to support 8 channels is that right?

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Mixel

That would be pretty easy in AGA but with OCS would require a background made of 32px repeating columns.. and uses up a ton of chip ram.. And would knock out 3 more colours from your main palette.

He's using a 16 color palette so colors 16-31 are unused. It's definitely worth looking into basically. Cause paired with copper changes you can do a lot of cool stuff. In general using sprites (other than the backs) is also very recommended.
I'd personally go for a sprite based main character in this case f.e. Cause not only this can free colors (probably) but also give a boost to performance.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by basementApe

Oops yeah maybe not then.

It's been a while since I had an A1200 kicking about. Well a physical A500 too for that matter. The sound chip on A1200 and up uses some kind of emulation to support 8 channels is that right?

A1200 sound chip = A500 sound chip. You just have more cpu for real-time mixing, but it's rarely used.

Making a AGA version is probably less frustrating as you can overcome a lot of limitations.

For instance sprites can be 64 pixels wide, and still 3 colors but with individual palette. I combined 2 sprites to get 6 colors 64 bit wide sprites.

I like the way you're handling this. Please do all the levels & enemies as soon as possible, and focus on the details later. Do you have a tiled map of the original? do you have coordinates of enemies/bonuses? to my experience, placing all items by hand is time consuming. I did that a long time ago for my Java remake of Gods on all 4 levels, and I'm never doing it again.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by basementApe

The sound chip on A1200 and up uses some kind of emulation to support 8 channels is that right?

No, in theory it can be done by mixing channels on the fly but that takes quite some processing time. So it's hardly ever used for in-game stuff.

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by Tsak

No, in theory it can be done by mixing channels on the fly but that takes quite some processing time. So it's hardly ever used for in-game stuff.

If you're using an optimized enough tracker, you can easily mix four software channels and run game code at the same time. That's almost a non-problem with the Amiga 1200

[Mixel]

Originally Posted by Tsak

He's using a 16 color palette so colors 16-31 are unused. It's definitely worth looking into basically. Cause paired with copper changes you can do a lot of cool stuff. In general using sprites (other than the backs) is also very recommended.
I'd personally go for a sprite based main character in this case f.e. Cause not only this can free colors (probably) but also give a boost to performance.

I assumed he’s using sprites a lot already.. presumably autosprite? That’s why I thought he needs 2x copies of the main palette. It really does use up so much chip though anyway, and he’s cutting it so close.. I’d almost consider parallax an ECS only feature on large projects because using it and fitting all the other stuff into 512kb chip just doesn’t sound feasible?

[basementApe]

Originally Posted by Mixel

I assumed he’s using sprites a lot already.. presumably autosprite? That’s why I thought he needs 2x copies of the main palette. It really does use up so much chip though anyway, and he’s cutting it so close.. I’d almost consider parallax an ECS only feature on large projects because using it and fitting all the other stuff into 512kb chip just doesn’t sound feasible?

That's right. I'm pretty much at max capacity with chip ram already. I'm guessing I'd have to cut a monster or two to make room. I did a bit of testing yesterday using bobs for the player instead of sprites, and it's mostly okay? But when it does slow down, it's just enough to make the game feel too sluggish. So, I'll have to leave that for an eventual AGA version. Or if I get sick of the project by then, just let someone else have a crack at it.

[basementApe]

Originally Posted by jotd

A1200 sound chip = A500 sound chip. You just have more cpu for real-time mixing, but it's rarely used.

Making a AGA version is probably less frustrating as you can overcome a lot of limitations.

For instance sprites can be 64 pixels wide, and still 3 colors but with individual palette. I combined 2 sprites to get 6 colors 64 bit wide sprites.

I like the way you're handling this. Please do all the levels & enemies as soon as possible, and focus on the details later. Do you have a tiled map of the original? do you have coordinates of enemies/bonuses? to my experience, placing all items by hand is time consuming. I did that a long time ago for my Java remake of Gods on all 4 levels, and I'm never doing it again.

I might sound like a weirdo saying this, but those limitations are a big part of the fun for me

I have a pretty good blueprint yeah, including maps of the original levels with pickups. Enemies spawn in constantly in the arcade version and there seems to be some markers in place to make certain types of enemies more likely to spawn at specific places. But apart from the odd weapon pickup, it's mostly semi-random in the arcade.

Ooh.. remake of Gods you say? I'll have to check that out

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Mixel

I assumed he’s using sprites a lot already.. presumably autosprite? That’s why I thought he needs 2x copies of the main palette. It really does use up so much chip though anyway, and he’s cutting it so close.. I’d almost consider parallax an ECS only feature on large projects because using it and fitting all the other stuff into 512kb chip just doesn’t sound feasible?

Oh, well then sprite backs are definitely off the menu. Simply because there won't be any sprite channels left this way.