Scanlines or NO scanlines? - Page 21

Jgames · 26 January 2010, 14:31

Thx john4p for the screens;
I also find the last screenshot to be the best.

Mogilny · 26 January 2010, 14:32

I must be blind, I can't see any difference between the pics except the brightness.

I see the scan lines in the second pic in #391, but none at all between 1 and 3 lol. And I don't think it's my display (1920x1200), it's more likely to be my eyes.

john4p · 26 January 2010, 14:34

@xpect: Your 1280x1024-resolution is ideal for Amiga emulation as that's 4*320x256.

I didn't really know about transparent scanlines when I voted "NO" in this poll. Now that I tried it I'm quite impressed by the look 25%-scanlines deliver. I'm torn between screenshot 7 and 8. I think 7 comes the closest to how Turrican II looked on my RGB-capable TV in the nineties.

@Mogilny: Only pics 5-8 have scanlines (1-4 show different upscaling algorithms without scanlines).

Retro-Nerd · 26 January 2010, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by john4p

I think 7 comes the closest to how Turrican II looked on my RGB-capable TV in the nineties.

Yep, shot 7 is the closest to my current Sony TV.

john4p · 27 January 2010, 10:05

With the newest WinUAE 2.0.2 beta 5 we can now combine scanlines and scalers. I found a combination which looks really nice: 25% scanlines and Super2xSaI.
Doesn't look as pixelated as 25% scanlines without scaling algorithm.
And doesn't look as blurry as 25% scanlines with bilinear filter.

Which one of the following looks best?

Super2xSaI with 25% scanlines:

Again for comparison 25% scanlines without filter:

And 25% scanlines with bilinear filter:

P.S. These'll be the last pics for a while...

AmigaFriend · 27 January 2010, 10:33

For me, I still choose the last one over the others, but knowing you John4p, I think you already made your mind.

john4p · 27 January 2010, 11:07

Correct, but as you can see with the scanlines I have an open mind for different opinions (especially when they are so strongly defended by experienced retro gamers

).

P.S. I think Turrican I with its one-color-background in the first world should really benefit from 25% scanlines.

Wait...see: Turrican and Apidya now with "twice" as many colors in the background:

TCD · 27 January 2010, 11:57

Hmm, guess I give these 25% scanlines a try aswell then

Really doesn't look bad at all.

Retro-Nerd · 27 January 2010, 16:09

Scanlines converts. Yaaah!!

Dan Locke · 27 January 2010, 17:18

Cool; scanlines that actually look like scanlines.

I'm going to set WinUAE to use 25% scanlines. No scalers, though - they make everything look like it's melting.

AmigaFriend · 27 January 2010, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by john4p

Wait...see: Turrican and Apidya now with "twice" as many colors in the background:

Indeed they have.

Although I don't use scanlines myself I admit the effect is quite authentic emulating a true retro experience with the proper settings. WinUAE as come far in this aspect in the last year or so.

The bottom line is that WinUAE can satisfy the needs of almost everyone with such extensive options and filters in this matter.

Dunny · 27 January 2010, 19:45

I'ma big fan of scanlines - I've implemented RPI filters and D3D Overlays in ZXSpin, and the results speak for themselves:

I'd love to see these in WinUAE ;-)

D.

Marlon · 27 January 2010, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunny

I'd love to see these in WinUAE ;-) .

Curious to know why you went for vertical scanlines? Mame needs 'em for game that used vertically orientated monitors, but unless you had a TV with a VERY crooked stand, they look wrong to me. I DO like the effect itself, though. Very convincing Pal effect.

AmigaFriend · 27 January 2010, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlon

Very convincing Pal effect.

My first colour TV was a Sanyo from 1981 and the look of my Spectrum 48k image on that telly was indeed like those pictures.

I'm really impressed.

Dunny · 28 January 2010, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlon

Curious to know why you went for vertical scanlines? Mame needs 'em for game that used vertically orientated monitors, but unless you had a TV with a VERY crooked stand, they look wrong to me. I DO like the effect itself, though. Very convincing Pal effect.

That's just an artifact of the overlay used - you can specify any PNG to use instead. I like that effect, because on my 14" portable the vertical separation of the trinitron cells was more pronounced than the scanlines were, and the vertical bars look better to me.

For the other way on, use a PNG that includes a horizontal effect

D.

Methanoid · 28 January 2010, 01:11

Wow, I never EVER thought I'd like scanlines but 25% looks the biz!

Marlon · 28 January 2010, 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunny

That's just an artifact of the overlay used - you can specify any PNG to use instead. I like that effect, because on my 14" portable the vertical separation of the trinitron cells was more pronounced than the scanlines were, and the vertical bars look better to me.

For the other way on, use a PNG that includes a horizontal effect

D.

Ah...all is now clear. And as I said, the Pal effect is fantastic.

TCD · 28 January 2010, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Wow, I never EVER thought I'd like scanlines but 25% looks the biz!

Yep. I tried 50% ones and wasn't really impressed (just looked wrong), but thanks to john I guess I'll put them in my default.uae aswell now

Dan Locke · 28 January 2010, 20:52

OK, I need some help here - how do you set the scanline strength? I can't find an option for it anywhere; I thought that it was my old version of WinUAE, but I just downloaded a new one from the site and I still can't figure it out.

Retro-Nerd · 28 January 2010, 20:56

If you use a Beta, just tick der Direct3D option in the filter Tab.

View Poll Results: Scanlines or NO scanlines?
Yes, I prefer scanlines.	81	29.14%
No, I don't like scanlines.	173	62.23%
I don't care which one. Any would do fine for me.	24	8.63%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

27 January 2010, 11:07	#407
john4p Competition Moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 4,756	Correct, but as you can see with the scanlines I have an open mind for different opinions (especially when they are so strongly defended by experienced retro gamers ). P.S. I think Turrican I with its one-color-background in the first world should really benefit from 25% scanlines. Wait...see: Turrican and Apidya now with "twice" as many colors in the background: Last edited by john4p; 27 January 2010 at 11:16.

27 January 2010, 17:18	#410
Dan Locke Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: USA Posts: 111	Cool; scanlines that actually look like scanlines. I'm going to set WinUAE to use 25% scanlines. No scalers, though - they make everything look like it's melting. Last edited by Dan Locke; 27 January 2010 at 17:35.

28 January 2010, 20:56	#420
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,453	If you use a Beta, just tick der Direct3D option in the filter Tab. Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 28 January 2010 at 21:10.

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26 January 2010, 14:31	#401
Jgames Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 457	Thx john4p for the screens; I also find the last screenshot to be the best.

26 January 2010, 14:32	#402
Mogilny Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Amiga 4-ever! Posts: 121	I must be blind, I can't see any difference between the pics except the brightness. I see the scan lines in the second pic in #391, but none at all between 1 and 3 lol. And I don't think it's my display (1920x1200), it's more likely to be my eyes.

26 January 2010, 14:34	#403
john4p Competition Moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 4,756	@xpect: Your 1280x1024-resolution is ideal for Amiga emulation as that's 4*320x256. I didn't really know about transparent scanlines when I voted "NO" in this poll. Now that I tried it I'm quite impressed by the look 25%-scanlines deliver. I'm torn between screenshot 7 and 8. I think 7 comes the closest to how Turrican II looked on my RGB-capable TV in the nineties. @Mogilny: Only pics 5-8 have scanlines (1-4 show different upscaling algorithms without scanlines).

27 January 2010, 10:05	#405
john4p Competition Moderator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 4,756	With the newest WinUAE 2.0.2 beta 5 we can now combine scanlines and scalers. I found a combination which looks really nice: 25% scanlines and Super2xSaI. Doesn't look as pixelated as 25% scanlines without scaling algorithm. And doesn't look as blurry as 25% scanlines with bilinear filter. Which one of the following looks best? Super2xSaI with 25% scanlines: Again for comparison 25% scanlines without filter: And 25% scanlines with bilinear filter: P.S. These'll be the last pics for a while...

27 January 2010, 10:33	#406
AmigaFriend Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sesimbra/Portugal Posts: 1,462	For me, I still choose the last one over the others, but knowing you John4p, I think you already made your mind.

27 January 2010, 11:57	#408
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,837	Hmm, guess I give these 25% scanlines a try aswell then Really doesn't look bad at all.

27 January 2010, 16:09	#409
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,453	Scanlines converts. Yaaah!!

27 January 2010, 19:45	#412
Dunny Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom Posts: 2,053	I'ma big fan of scanlines - I've implemented RPI filters and D3D Overlays in ZXSpin, and the results speak for themselves: I'd love to see these in WinUAE ;-) D.

28 January 2010, 01:11	#416
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,874	Wow, I never EVER thought I'd like scanlines but 25% looks the biz!

28 January 2010, 20:52	#419
Dan Locke Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: USA Posts: 111	OK, I need some help here - how do you set the scanline strength? I can't find an option for it anywhere; I thought that it was my old version of WinUAE, but I just downloaded a new one from the site and I still can't figure it out.

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