Got problems with new A1200 Purchase.

[trydowave]

I believe so. I re-plugged it in the same way it came. Can it go the other way then?

[FOL]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

Have to ask same question, are you putting the 34 pin cable in the right way? Drive should click every couple of seconds if it is correct

He he, I edited my post a few times, as I noticed stuff on pics, .

It could also be the worm gear is stuck. Maybe from being transported. Always worth a check.

[trydowave]

Can it go in the other way then? I thought these cables could only go in one way. Btw. is a A600 or A500 drive compatible?

[FOL]

Originally Posted by trydowave

Can it go in the other way then? I thought these cables could only go in one way. Btw. is a A600 or A500 drive compatible?

Yes and Yes, although the A500 drive is too big to fit in case.

[trydowave]

I can't find my Torx screwdriver at the mo so i'm unable to connect the A500s floppy. As soon as my A600 is back from repair ill try that on (it is the same as the A1200 drive right?). In the meantime I tried the A1200s drive with the cable turned around. Nothing happened. The game failed to boot and it went straight into the tiny loader menu. I also tried something new. I created a copy of Relokick 1.4a on my A500. This initially wound't boot on the A1200s main floppy drive so I tried it on one of the externals instead by holding down both mouse btns on start up. I managed to get kick 1.3 up and running and then I tried to run a game. None of the disks worked. The only one that did was my copy of workbench 1.3?!?
How does it load some games and not others if the floppy or the CIA is dead?
Cheers
Tony

[TomCrazy]

Originally Posted by GadgetUK

Regards your floppy drive problems, sounds like it could be the drive that's dodgy - you should at very least be able to format a blank floppy. I would start by cleaning the heads with a cotton bud and some isoprop alchohol. If it's not the drive you could be looking at a faulty CIA.

Regarding being able to format a floppy or at least getting some kind of response from the floppy drive... That is very much true, but only under the condition that the motherboard is of C= type and the floppy is of shugart type or the motherboard is of Escom type and the floppy is also of Escom type (that is, a slightly modified PC drive).

If the motherboard is of C= type and the floppy drive is an "Escom"-drive that hasn't been modded to work with C= boards, then the drive might not work at all. What kind of symptoms it will show will depend on how the drive is currently configured/modified. Incorrect routing of the signals between the floppy drive and the motherboard will often make the drive not work at all.

Cleaning the heads will of course not help in a situation where the signals are incorrectly routed between the floppy drive and the motherboard. In a case where you get DF0: ????, it's most often a matter of a communication problem between the motherboard and the floppy drive, which can be caused either by incompatibility between the motherboard and the drive (C= vs Escom) or by a failure on either the motherboard or the floppy drive.

In a situation like this, it would be a good idea to properly test the motherboard to start with by connecting an internal floppy drive that is tested and known to be working for sure, and also is known to be a shugart drive. And of course, making sure the ribbon cable is connected the right way around is also important.
If the floppy drive doesn't work during this test, then I would say it's time to move on to actually troubleshooting the motherboard.

But I have to say that I really do suspect the floppy drive to be a modified PC-drive, and that's why trydowave is having these problems.
It also looks like the shell of your Amiga is of Escom type, even though the motherboard is of C= type. This means that someone must have replaced the motherboard inside the shell with a C= motherboard.

Here is my theory of what might have happened:
The seller had an Escom Amiga with an Escom drive, which made the drive work. The seller then noticed that there was some problem with the motherboard, so he exchanged it for a C= motherboard without knowing that a C= motherboard doesn't mix well with an Escom floppy drive.
The seller then though "OK, I know that this motherboard is working and I know the floppy is working, so no futher testing is needed. I will sell it like it is." So after the motherboard exchange, he sold it just like that with no futher testing, which resulted in the floppy drive not working.
This is only speculations of course, but it's very much possible that this is what have happened.

[trydowave]

It's just frigging annoying! The thing wasn't exactly cheap (still cheaper than some of the prices you'll find on ebay.) But, still a lot for what is essentially a fixer upper! I have no knowledge of Amiga Motherboards so I can't repair the thing myself. Looks like this has to be sent off like the A600! Bummer!

Tom. Did you see the photos of the Floppy drive? Personally I can't tell who made it. There's no information on it whatsoever. I have 3 externals by Cumana. All vary in their reliability. Are they shugart drives? They do work better but only in workbench. Games still wont boot off them. I imagine that some wont on ks 3.0, but all of them?!? How can that be happening?

Also. How can the main A1200 floppy drive run a back up I made of Workbench 1.3 but not anything else. I created all these using the same disks, adfs, adf transfer program, pc and A500. It doesn't make sense?

Cheers

[demolition]

Most games won't work from the external drive since they are hard coded to run from df0:. AmigaDOS disks will usually boot fine though, like WB disks.

So you are saying that you can boot into WB 1.3 using the internal drive? If that is the case, then the drive must be working and the blame should be put on your other floppies.

[trydowave]

Originally Posted by demolition

Most games won't work from the external drive since they are hard coded to run from df0:. AmigaDOS disks will usually boot fine though, like WB disks.

So you are saying that you can boot into WB 1.3 using the internal drive? If that is the case, then the drive must be working and the blame should be put on your other floppies.

WB 1.3 is the only disk out of hundreds that work. On the A500 they all work? Also. I can boot games from any drive I want by using the boot manager (holding down 2 mouse buttons at start up). The games do actual start if I boot from my external drives, be it DF1, DF2 or DF3, but none of them load.
The get as far as the cracktro's and that's about it? I thought that ks 3.0 could be the problem; even though I thought a couple might have loaded. None did?
I then went on and tried booting relokick 1.4a in the external. That booted and I got to KS1.3. But on KS1.3 I cant get the boot manager to work using the "holding down 2 mouse button method".
When I try this the screen just flashes multiple colours and then it looks like it goes into ntsc mode or something. That's how far I've got and none of it makes any sense to me?

P.s. I've just had an idea. I used Xcopy to create my adfs. Did it all through my laptop with parallel cable to the A500. I formatted them in DOS and then transferred the adfs. Do you think it's possible that something caused them to only work on the A500? The way they were formatted or copied? Still dosent explain why I cant format from the A1200 in workbench? It says "Not a valid DOS disk"?

[demolition]

Most games will only get to the cracktro but as the trackloader sets in after that, it will fail if loading from an external drive as it is hard coded to load from df0:. So this is normal.

The pre-boot environment (both buttons) doesn't exist prior to KS2.0, and the feature you see when you're pressing the buttons in ReloKick is NTSC mode as you suspect. This is not part of the original KS1.3 but an added feature in ReloKick.

Many games should work with KS3.0 using a real internal drive. On the ESCOM drives many will fail though as some trackloaders won't work properly with it. This is also normal (although annoying).

Most games will show up as 'Not a valid DOS disk' in WB, and this is also normal, however you should be able to format them and then see them as blank disks.

If you can load WB1.3 completely without problems, I'd still say the drive is working fine (for DOS disks) and that your problems are related to either KS3.0/ESCOM drive/bad floppies.
In theory it could also be bad alignment of the drive heads, which is a bit similar to the tape azimuth adjustment on the C64. It will then have problems reading disks written on other drives, but can read its own formatted disks fine.

[trydowave]

So you think the motherboard is in the clear then? That's the thing i'm really worried about to be honest.
Do you have any recommendations? Do I need a new floppy drive? Accoring to the seller the floppy was NOS so it's trange that it might be failing now.
I plan to get 3.1 roms very soon.

[Loedown]

If you can load even one disk it shows that the Amiga circuit for the floppy is working and that the drive is working. A1200 units are not user friendly towards certain games and demos, this I can verify myself from using a HxC and various disk images like Katakis and State Of The Art Demo. I would also find it frustrating but go through in a thorough manner and work out exactly what works and what doesn't and then a solution can be found.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by trydowave

So you think the motherboard is in the clear then? That's the thing i'm really worried about to be honest.
Do you have any recommendations? Do I need a new floppy drive? Accoring to the seller the floppy was NOS so it's trange that it might be failing now.
I plan to get 3.1 roms very soon.

That floppy is not a nos drive, well not commodore or escom, cause the floppy button is cut and glued.

I would go with, is not modded/not modded correctly.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by trydowave

So you think the motherboard is in the clear then? That's the thing i'm really worried about to be honest.
Do you have any recommendations? Do I need a new floppy drive? Accoring to the seller the floppy was NOS so it's trange that it might be failing now.
I plan to get 3.1 roms very soon.

Even if the drive was NOS, that doesn't mean that it's a proper Amiga drive. And I think its a little curious as to why the sticker on it was removed.

I'd try the A500 drive in the 1200 and see if it changes anything. Torx screws can be undone using a flathead screwdriver if the size is right. The cabinet screws are not very tight so you shouldn't break anything by doing that. Then you should get/write a WB3.1 disk and see if you can get that to work.

Regarding the KS, I don't think 3.1 is much more compatible than 3.0. Older stuff won't work on either of them, which is why WHDLoad is handy.

[trydowave]

Originally Posted by demolition

Even if the drive was NOS, that doesn't mean that it's a proper Amiga drive. And I think its a little curious as to why the sticker on it was removed.

I'd try the A500 drive in the 1200 and see if it changes anything. Torx screws can be undone using a flathead screwdriver if the size is right. The cabinet screws are not very tight so you shouldn't break anything by doing that. Then you should get/write a WB3.1 disk and see if you can get that to work.

Regarding the KS, I don't think 3.1 is much more compatible than 3.0. Older stuff won't work on either of them, which is why WHDLoad is handy.

Hi. That was me who ripped the paper off the floppy. I did it to get more information on here. The paper just had A1200/600 Floppy Drive written on it.
The A1200 has a CF HDD with Workbench 3.1 installed on it already btw. WHDload is handy I agree but I just want to be able to boot a floppy when I need too. I didn't know it was going to be this incompatible.
And to think, people we're complaining about the A500+ and the A600 back in the day for not working with some games. I remember having trouble with a few and relokick sorted them out. This A1200 can't boot anything! (I'm guessing other A1200s don't suffer from these issues)

I also tried these games last night:

Cannon Fodder
new zealand story
1943
F18 interceptor
Shadow of the Beast 2
and Arcade Pool.

All these games are boxed originals, not copies. None of them worked in the A1200 but they all work in the A500?

P.s. Im getting my A600 back this week. When I do ill try the Floppy from that. Its the right size and the screws come out easier

[FOL]

Originally Posted by trydowave

Hi. That was me who ripped the paper off the floppy. I did it to get more information on here. The paper just had A1200/600 Floppy Drive written on it.
The A1200 has a CF HDD with Workbench 3.1 installed on it already btw. WHDload is handy I agree but I just want to be able to boot a floppy when I need too. I didn't know it was going to be this incompatible.
And to think, people we're complaining about the A500+ and the A600 back in the day for not working with some games. I remember having trouble with a few and relokick sorted them out. This A1200 can't boot anything! (I'm guessing other A1200s don't suffer from these issues)

I also tried these games last night:

Cannon Fodder
new zealand story
1943
F18 interceptor
Shadow of the Beast 2
and Arcade Pool.

All these games are boxed originals, not copies. None of them worked in the A1200 but they all work in the A500?

P.s. Im getting my A600 back this week. When I do ill try the Floppy from that. Its the right size and the screws come out easier

Im guessing you have the wb disks, do they all read?

[demolition]

Also try the cable from the 600, just in case it could be broken.

[trydowave]

Just tried all the WB disks. Only the back up one works. Its a mix of disks not booting at all. Disks booting for a bit and then reporting a block error. And the one disk that does actually load.
For example. I just loaded X copy on an external (using the boot manager) and it loads but all the gfx are crashed. I then press the button and the screen goes haywire (like a frequency change has happened).
My other question is this: Do you think I can email the seller now and safely say that he ripped me off? Not that it would do much good.
Cheers
Tony

[demolition]

Originally Posted by trydowave

My other question is this: Do you think I can email the seller now and safely say that he ripped me off? Not that it would do much good.

Only if you have a known good WB3.1 floppy and it won't boot with it. Unless it says A1200 compatible on the package of a game, you can't count on it being supported. As I wrote before, seeing as you can boot WB1.3 it is probably 99% fine.

[fitzsteve]

I doubt the seller 'ripped you off' he probably tested it with a few Disks (I normally read and write to and from blank Disks to check my drives)

I would go with Amigakit's thought's that possibly the drive is badly modded. However as has been said it could just be the software you want to use is not compatible.

It might be worth approaching the seller advising the drive doesn't seem to work reliably and see if he is willing to do anything.

I can highly recommend Amigakit's drives, I bought one for my A1200T and it works great still today after 2 years and I have used it to write many Disks now.

As for playing older software on the A1200 I noticed issues playing my old Games on my first A1200 (graphic errors and such) it turns out some games are not compatible with the A1200 but also bad floppy media can cause this too.

You can if you hold down both mouse change the graphics mode, this helped me with some Games.

In the end I found it more convenient to use WHDLoad and got an A500 to play my old Games