DaemonClaw: Origins of Nnar

[Predseda]

I have been patreoning BitBeam from the begining. I had this conversation with Mike about DaemonClaw a year ago:

Predseda — 10/31/2022 9:18 AM
For DaemonsClaw Amiga version will come out last, right?

MikeAtBitBeam — 10/31/2022 9:19 AM
likely, yes, but it will also be the "ultimate" edition, with the most features, and best appearance etc... Unless we simultaneously make a Neo Geo version, in which case they'd be mostly identical, and the best 2 versions.

Predseda — 10/31/2022 9:20 AM
This Neo Geo is interesting - Michael (Tigerskunk) develops Inviyya 2 for Neo Geo too. I know totally nothing about NG, does it have a big user support these days?

MikeAtBitBeam — 10/31/2022 9:25 AM
not big, but wealthy collectors and voracious for new games. No-where near as big as the Megadrive fan-base, but both Megadrive and Neo Geo fans are bigger chances to make money from a new game than Amiga, which is tiny (the amount of fans willing to buy a new game and the amount they're willing to pay for it) but to sell a neo geo or megadrive game to those fans, the quality of the game must be higher than the typical Amiga game.

So they hope to earn some money from the more profitable versions of the game first and then they will make the Amiga port. Makes perfect sense to me.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Predseda

I have been patreoning BitBeam from the begining. I had this conversation with Mike about DaemonClaw a year ago:

[snip]

So they hope to earn some money from the more profitable versions of the game first and then they will make the Amiga port. Makes perfect sense to me.

I cannot blame then at all for thinking this way; now with a LITTLE bit of OT let's assume Mike and Corey have a work/life balance like us (me in this case), with a day job and a side passion: work and commute for eight to ten hours, come back at home well done like a steak, and try to find the force to spend one or two hours at least to do stuff while there are chores to do, wifey that might complain we are too much in front of the computer etc.; we would do it even for free - and often times we do - however, have also some ROI indeed helps to feel we are doing something, keep family criticism at bay and feed the ego

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I cannot blame then at all for thinking this way; now with a LITTLE bit of OT let's assume Mike and Corey have a work/life balance like us (me in this case), with a day job and a side passion: work and commute for eight to ten hours, come back at home well done like a steak, and try to find the force to spend one or two hours at least to do stuff while there are chores to do, wifey that might complain we are too much in front of the computer etc.; we would do it even for free - and often times we do - however, have also some ROI indeed helps to feel we are doing something, keep family criticism at bay and feed the ego

Well, it's slightly different for them because their day-jobs (far as I know) are also about gamedev (working as freelancer artists or on other projects or studios). And while Amiga dev still remains a passion activity they do try to keep it within their loop and planning.

[Bren McGuire]

so that's only another 25 years for this release

Originally Posted by nikosidis

It was never meant to be released first on the Amiga. After Metro Siege is done the same programmer will do Daemon for what I am quite sure will be AGA.

[saimon69]

Yeah, the best retirement gift for you

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

so that's only another 25 years for this release

lol i hope not, but i understand for a project started in first on Amiga

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by kremiso

for a project started in first on Amiga

It never was, though. As far as I understood.

Look at the palette. You don't do a 9 bit colorspace if you work towards an Amiga release first and foremost.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Tigerskunk

It never was, though. As far as I understood.

Look at the palette. You don't do a 9 bit colorspace if you work towards an Amiga release first and foremost.

the first prototype was made in AMOS

[ Show youtube player ]

[MrX_Cuci]

They put a video up explaining things about the lack of an Amiga version in the kickstarter: [ Show youtube player ]

[Bren McGuire]

so yea basically in 25 years as i said

Originally Posted by MrX_Cuci

They put a video up explaining things about the lack of an Amiga version in the kickstarter: [ Show youtube player ]

[kremiso]

indeed a bit strange video the last one, sound different ie from their reply on Kickstarter

about the other hw work, incredible they already doubled the funds in less than a month

[sokolovic]

Still that is strange that they didn't include the Amiga version in the kickstarter. It could have been interesting to see how many people would pledge for it.

This game looks very promising anyway but I really hope there will be an Amiga release.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

This game looks very promising anyway but I really hope there will be an Amiga release.

As has been repeatedly mentioned, the Amiga version will be based on the same engine as Metro Siege. Since the Amiga version of Metro Siege is not out yet, there's no point in starting the clock on a Kickstarter for a project whose infrastructure is not available yet.

[Predseda]

^this

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Still that is strange that they didn't include the Amiga version in the kickstarter. It could have been interesting to see how many people would pledge for it.

This game looks very promising anyway but I really hope there will be an Amiga release.

There's no coding work being done on the Amiga version at the moment. So it wouldn't make sense to add it in this Kickstarter.

[Bren McGuire]

kind of strange to talk about a game that does not exist and will not exist until an engine that is largely nowhere near finished is done

wait it isnt strange they're trying to get amiga people to support them without any actual amiga software to show for

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

As has been repeatedly mentioned, the Amiga version will be based on the same engine as Metro Siege. Since the Amiga version of Metro Siege is not out yet, there's no point in starting the clock on a Kickstarter for a project whose infrastructure is not available yet.

[TCD]

Sounds a lot like 'low priority' which makes sense. Also hope this will come to the Amiga... eventually.

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

kind of strange to talk about a game that does not exist and will not exist until an engine that is largely nowhere near finished is done

The engine is not the problem here. The Metro Siege engine can already 'house' Daemon Claw fine. The problem is priorities and manhours. Given Metro Siege is still in dev and prioritized on the Amiga side there's no point starting a new work until this one is complete. Otherwise the two projects would compete.

Originally Posted by Bren McGuire

wait it isnt strange they're trying to get amiga people to support them without any actual amiga software to show for

Are they? That would be the case if the Amiga game was also promised in the kickstarter (actually asking Amiga people to fund it). But it's not. The latest video is only aimed to explain their plans and dispel misconceptions.

The fact is that if Mike wasn't such an Amiga enthusiast he'd never even consider pushing this idea any further. Especially since Daemon Claw's kickstarter has already gone over 100k, nearly doubling their initial 50k goal and budget.

Besides Daemon Claw, there are basically very interesting conclusions to draw from the above story for the entire Amiga scene. Like the fact that the Mega Drive is getting consistently loads of high quality releases simply because it has managed to become a viable platform for professional devs.

I'm not implying here that the Amiga scene lacks talent or quality releases (far from it and thank god for that) but the reality is that this comes with a huge personal cost (time, money and effort) for the developers. Chances are stacked against big projects in this case, forcing them to become long year marathons, because no amount of love for the platform, talent or good will can make up for the fact that this work is still done on people's free time and on top of a day-job.

[sokolovic]

Tsak, you're right. I'm personnally very happy that the Amiga is even considered at all. I'll wait patiently (and I prefer to see Metro Siege released first on the Amiga, as this game clearly fits a massive hole in the machine library, and in a spectacular way !)

That said, I'm curious why nobody tries to make any kickstarter for an Amiga game (not saying that for BitBeamCannon particularly).

When I see how much was raised for all the kickstarters made for the Amiga (keyboard, keycaps, Checkmate, optical mouse etc), I would be very surprised that a kickstart for a very polished game like MetroSiege would'nt be a massive success, even if it is only for the Amiga. I'd gladely pay for it personnally, and I'm sure many others would do so.

As I see in the KS there is currently 811 backers for the Megadrive version. It's not like there were millions or even thousand of backers there anyway. And the game is probably more expensive to make on the Megadrive because of the cartdrige.

[Tigerskunk]

if there is one thing about this topic I'd criticize personally, it's that the impression was created over time that this game was actually in some stage of development already on the Amiga.