EAB/Lemon Super League 2017: Round 12 - Formula One Grand Prix

[lifeschool]

Hi John. I dont want to sound bad, but any changes to the scoring system must be sorted out in the first week. We havent made a perfect scoring system but its not unfair.

When we ran F1GP in the Lemon compo, you were happy to run the game at 25FPS with an 060, from your laptop and using keys. But now you play it at 8FPS using a 000? If you are using a real 020, please at least turn the detail to low so that the car goes at a reasonable pace.

This is how you got your best 15.6 time, and I think the game clock is not speeded up with the game, so the faster the frame rate, the slower the time.

[ Show youtube player ]

Lastly, please dont alter the hack by changing the name of the driver. I know this makes no difference but I'm trying to make sure we are all playing the same game, with no question that it has been altered in any way.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Hi John. I dont want to sound bad, but any changes to the scoring system must be sorted out in the first week. We havent made a perfect scoring system but its not unfair.

I think you haven't really looked at the example I gave.
Again:
Player 1 has times of 20:02 at Silverstone and 20:02 at Suzuka so his total time is 40:04.
Player 2 has 20:35 at Silverstone and 19:59 at Suzuka so his total time is 40:34.
Player 2 is half a minute slower than Player 1 yet scores better with your scoring system. You honestly think that is "not unfair"?

Tbh. it won't matter for me personally as I'll eventually beat 20 minutes anyway.
But adding times this way just doesn't make sense. We need to add both times correctly (e.g. with http://www.unitarium.com/time-calculator) before converting the result to a score.

Originally Posted by lifeschool

When we ran F1GP in the Lemon compo, you were happy to run the game at 25FPS with an 060, from your laptop and using keys. But now you play it at 8FPS using a 000? If you are using a real 020, please at least turn the detail to low so that the car goes at a reasonable pace.

This is how you got your best 15.6 time, and I think the game clock is not speeded up with the game, so the faster the frame rate, the slower the time.

[ Show youtube player ]

I'd gladly play this again at 25fps.
I'm emulating a 68040 using the WHDLoad-package you've provided. In the pitstop it's clearly not running at 16fps but on the track I think it (mostly) is. Well, not my fault it's running so poorly. If you can give me advice how to further improve the framerate I'd be happy to hear it.

[vagrant]

I think it's normal for framerate to vary a bit during race mode. Actually nothing special is needed to get max performance; for me 020 + fastest possible (no JIT) is enough for even 25fps mode.. and my winuae PC is old dual core

[vagrant]

Silverstone: 2,000,869 (20:00.869)
Suzuka: 2,001,681 (20:01.681)
------------------------------------
Total: 4,002,550

Tbh. it won't matter for me personally as I'll eventually beat 20 minutes anyway.

Yeh well I don't share that optimism
Dealing with other cars is harder on this track and not sure I could improve much more than this..
Think I prefer time trials over races in the competion.. but still is lot of fun

[john4p]

Yes, time trials are better suited for competition. I also just used a 020 or 040 back then for 25fps-mode.

So your total time is 40 minutes and 2.55 seconds.
Steef's is 40 minutes and 15.32 seconds.

Rating makes sense.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by ED-209

Actually nothing special is needed to get max performance; for me 020 + fastest possible (no JIT) is enough for even 25fps mode.. and my winuae PC is old dual core

I though I was going crazy, as I know I tested the hack on all CPUs before the event, and the 020 was a little slow in full detail mode, but reducing it to minimum detail gave a similar performance to all the faster CPUs. And as you say, this is without JIT.

Perhaps if an 020 config didnt have fast memory, then the machine would effectively run at 7mhz. I just run an 060 for fast 3D games, and with emulation this is easy.

[lifeschool]

John - We are looking into the times issues, and we'll see how things are affected at the end. If I have to alter every time manually then so be it.

[john4p]

That sounds good - thank you Dan!

[JanciB]

Silverstone: 2,042,277 (20:42.277)
Suzuka: 1,958,896 (19:58.896)

Total: 4,001,173
Total time: 40:41.173

Video:

[ Show youtube player ]

Was lucky with backmarkers.

[john4p]

[ Show youtube player ]

Silverstone: 2,001,749 (20:01.749)
Suzuka: 1,959,039 (19:59.039)
------------------------
Total: 3,960,788

Really wasn't easy after all to beat 20 minutes in Suzuka. Played at minimum details this time for a more consistent framerate. This caused the iconic bridge to be missing.

Total time is 40:00.788 meaning 4,000,788 if we revise the scoring system.

@JanciB: 143ms faster than me, nice. Gonna watch your gameplay vid now. edit: Very smooth, that looks like 20fps with full details. What are your settings?

[JanciB]

Originally Posted by john4p

Played at minimum details this time for a more consistent framerate. This caused the iconic bridge to be missing.

I have WinUAE set to 68020 cycle exact 28Mhz no JIT.
My framerate is noticeable faster that yours. I think the game is more difficult with low framerate. Respect how you recovered the car from grass after last fast left chicane.

[john4p]

Wow so it runs better at cycle exact emulation. Always had it set to fastest possible...
Will try that, thanks!

Originally Posted by JanciB

Respect how you recovered the car from grass after last fast left chicane.

That was pure luck (and probably my 62/40 wing setting).
Respect how you overtook every opponent honestly.
I bumped a few of them off the road by carefully driving into their tyres.

[vagrant]

So cycle exact runs faster than "fastest possible".. that's so illogical I might have to try it
Some really quick Suzuka times coming in!

[john4p]

It works and it's very smooth. Feels smoother than 16fps. It's a whole different game this way and a lot more fun.

Just make sure to set 28MHz speed.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by john4p

It works and it's very smooth. Feels smoother than 16fps. It's a whole different game this way and a lot more fun.

It may be more than 16fps if your CPU has been overclocked to 28mhz. The game was tested on an 020 set to fastest possible and no cycle exact. Yes it is much more fun, and the timings of gears aren't affected by the frame rates suddenly changing when the cars or stands appear on screen. I think the game runs just as quickly as the old 25fps hack, but a bit less smooth. Your videos are embracingly slow, so if you can improve on those times that would be great. Hopefully now, we are all playing the same game at the same speeds.

[JanciB]

Silverstone: 2,016,966 (20:16.966)
Suzuka: 1,958,896 (19:58.896)

Total: 3,975,862
Total time: 40:15.862

Video:

[ Show youtube player ]

Not much love from the CC's this time.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Your videos are embracingly slow, so if you can improve on those times that would be great. Hopefully now, we are all playing the same game at the same speeds.

Improved my Suzuka time by a whopping 64ms. Would have been a few seconds better if I hadn't made a mistake at the end of the 12th lap.

[ Show youtube player ]
[ Show youtube player ]

Silverstone: 2,001,749 (20:01.749)
Suzuka: 1,958,975 (19:58.975) (EDIT: corrected time, previously wrote 19:58.075, total time was correct though)
------------------------
Total: 3,960,724


After qualification while accelerating the time passing by I used WinUAE's warp mode which caused the sound to go out of sync in the recording. After 6:30 minutes WinUAE created a second output file where the sound was in sync again. Tried to merge both files but that didn't turn out well so I've now uploaded both parts separately.

[vagrant]

Silverstone: 2,000,869 (20:00.869)
Suzuka: 1,951,786 (19:51.786)
------------------------------------
Total: 3,952,655

Annoyed with this time.. I had a poor first few laps, and lost it on the second last lap at the hairpin almost to a standstill - while under no pressure
I also used C's instead of D's which was a dumb move since I didn't get a lap below 1:30 even once.
Anyway I recorded it.. but can't be bothered uploading it now lol

[lifeschool]

All scores converted to whole seconds, and the leaderboard has been updated. I didnt notice anyones positions on the leaderboard change, and no points chances except for Akabei and MikeyG, who's scores change thanks to a difference in the penalty system.

[Graham Humphrey]

Thanks lifeschool for sorting the scores out there.

The round is now over.

ED-209 takes first place in quite a dramatic end to proceedings.

Long-time leader steef-online has to ultimately settle for silver.

john4p takes the final podium place.

What this all means is that the crucial season issues have been settled. John4p has won the league title for this year - his third overall. liviux76 is not quite guaranteed second, but he and LinesMachine will definitely make up the top three.

Also, EAB wins the team competition, with two wins in this round giving them a 10-6 lead with only two to play.