Microbotics M1230XA problem, possibly faulty? - Page 2

Photon · 02 February 2010, 06:08

Huh. Sounds like 'downgrading til it works'. Not that that's a bad thing, since that will run most games fine. But a bit cryptic and terse. Mind explaining those 3 words 8bitbubs? You tested these settings and this makes 'all' games including the problem games work, together with the NOAUTOVEC setting?

8bitbubsy · 02 February 2010, 06:51

It's more like a "test this and it might work with that"... It's a play thingie, the card is really weird with WHDLoad.

hall · 02 February 2010, 09:51

Nice to see some activity

Now, if we ignore the WHDLoad problems for a while, what do you people reckon might be the reason for the _floppy_ versions of the games mentioned above working without the board installed, and inevitably crashing more or less immediately when the board is present?

8bitbubsy · 02 February 2010, 09:52

Sounds like a CPU cache issue, or maybe MMU related..? On the 030 CPU that is.

hall · 02 February 2010, 09:58

Wow, you're fast!

Is there anything I can do to confirm that this is the case, and if so, any suggestions on how to fix this?

Thanks!

8bitbubsy · 02 February 2010, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hall

Wow, you're fast!

I just popped in the same minute you posted the post

Quote:

Originally Posted by hall

Is there anything I can do to confirm that this is the case, and if so, any suggestions on how to fix this?

Not sure.. All I can say here is: Boot the Amiga with both mouse button held, then go to "Boot Options...", click "Disable CPU Caches", then click "Use", then "Boot"... Then put in the floppy game you know had problems with your acc and see. If the problem is gone, the problem is CPU caches (at least something related).

Photon · 02 February 2010, 19:54

hall, most games that run from floppy have issues running on anything but stock machines. Stock A500 or A1200. Nothing to do with any card. Only specific cracks ("100% fixed") have patched all the game code to accommodate upgraded machines.

The specific version of your floppy game could throw up on anything, maybe it throws up on AGA, maybe it expects chipmem only, etc etc. So it's the usual incompatibilities, you can try disabling caches, but it could also be that you need a 100% fixed version of the game.

I'm more interested in how to set that cache stuff in the WHDload config and what effect it has.

hall · 05 February 2010, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

Not sure.. All I can say here is: Boot the Amiga with both mouse button held, then go to "Boot Options...", click "Disable CPU Caches", then click "Use", then "Boot"... Then put in the floppy game you know had problems with your acc and see. If the problem is gone, the problem is CPU caches (at least something related).

Unfortunately, this made no difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

hall, most games that run from floppy have issues running on anything but stock machines. Stock A500 or A1200. Nothing to do with any card. Only specific cracks ("100% fixed") have patched all the game code to accommodate upgraded machines.

Ah, never thought of it in that way!

However, this specific version at least claims to work on AGA with 680x0 CPU, so I'm not fully at ease yet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon

I'm more interested in how to set that cache stuff in the WHDload config and what effect it has.

Agreed!

Riempie · 10 March 2010, 20:51

What type of memory does this board use anyway? Will it work with the same memory as the blizzard turbo cards? Sometimes I see memory for A1200 turbocards on ebay but I would't know if these will work.

rkauer · 14 March 2010, 04:49

Any 72pin SIMM will work with the MBX1230XA (but LASER PRINTER sticks, of course). From humble 4Mb up to 128Mb beasts.

Too bad the card have heavy incompatibilities with WHDLoad and even with OS3.9 (on some cards OS3.9 simply don't boot.

Worst combination is the Microbotics 1230XA with 1D1 motherboards.

Photon · 14 March 2010, 19:09

It's a bit silly for something made in the mid 1990s to be compatible with a future operating system or a future superhackutility to play floppy games from workbench, though. It would be very very hard for Microbotics to be that clairvoyant.

Haven't kept up on the WHDload threads, but I think the jury is still out whether MX1230 has problems with [the current version of] WHDload, or if it's a matter of setting some values and patching a few incompatible slaves.

Coders of today have an advantage, the hardware needed to be supported have been out for decades

If they all run Workbench 3.1, then either something in the hardware specs is making it impossible to run OS3.9 and WHDload, or OS3.9 and WHDload support a subset of the available Amiga hardware.

I know it could be a lot of work to fix both, but it's better to be a little harsh than to brand some expansion as "incompatible" with software that was made 15 years later.

It's a bit like the 68040 being "incompatible". Motorola didn't make that many CPUs to be compatible with... So coders should be aware of it and not use components or devsoftware or libs that aren't.

And I'm a coder so I know how much work and boring it is to be compatible with everything.

But blaming the hardware isn't the way out. If you type "xxx not supported!" in the specs, you're off the hook, if you don't want to do that you need to put in the compatibility code.

Riempie · 14 March 2010, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkauer

Worst combination is the Microbotics 1230XA with 1D1 motherboards.

What problems does this motherboard have in relation to this accelerator? I just bought a new A1200 (AT A1200). I hope this one will not have any problems with it, otherwise my new A1200 would be a bit useless...

prowler · 14 March 2010, 20:58

Hi Riempie,

If you've just bought a new AT1200, it will have either a Rev 1.D.4 or Rev 2B motherboard, so there is nothing to suggest that you will have any problems running a Microbotics 1230XA accelerator card with it.

rkauer · 15 March 2010, 02:15

Common problems related with the combination: all chips on the accelerator goes way too hot, even when system is idle.

Stability problems when using OS3.9, MMU don't act as it must be, minor graphic corruption on screen (garbage) when using graphical patches (Birdie, Visual Prefs, you name it).

That besides the problems in WHDLoad games which occurs with any mobo revision.

No, you Amiga will not catch fire or stop working for good. Just minor irritating issues.

Riempie · 24 March 2010, 13:29

Ok... I've bought a 64mb ram module which should be compatible with this card. I already had 16mb which works fine. I know, 64mb isn't necessary but I thought it would be nice.

I've got 2 A1200's. 1 Commodore A1200 and 1 AT A1200. The first one has a cf-hd (4gb) and kickrom 3.0. With the 64mb module it crashes at startup. When I hold down both mouse buttons at startup and boot with no startup-sequence and load the workbench or when I boot workbench from floppy it seems to work fine. The 64mb seems to be recognized but as soon as I go to one of my harddrive partitions or start a program it crashes again.

Then I tried the card in my other AT A1200 which has kickrom 3.1 With this one it crashes too. Same problems. Then I tried it with my old 3.5 inch hd. It also crashes at startup, but it seems to work fine (it was stable for a couple of minutes, then I had to go to bed

) when I boot this HD with no startup-sequence.

In all situations the 16mb module has no problems at all. Now I ask myself, is there something wrong with the module or is it the combination of hardware which produces these problems. I can't use the 64 mb module now because I need my cf-hd.

Any suggestions?

Thx in advance.

fryguy · 24 March 2010, 13:39

@Riempie: IIRC there was a program for the MBX1230 where you could the speed of the RAM perhaps it's set to high for the 64MB simm? Might be worth a try atleast.

Riempie · 24 March 2010, 13:45

Thx for you answer..

Hmm... set the speed, with kickstart 3.1 it should recognize the memory automatically (which it does). For kickstart 3.0 I need to configure the memory with the provided software. Do you mean this software? I see somthing with nanoseconds (which should be 60ns) and cycles. The last option is set automatically when I change the setting for nanoseconds.

Or do you mean an other program with different options? Where can I find it?

Photon · 24 March 2010, 19:07

Riempie: The software from here?

I think you can boot from the Install disk and it will successively test out the memory speed and set the correct settings on the EEPROM on the card. Not 100% it will boot flawlessly on kick 3.1 since the disk is from the WB 1.3 days.

But on the disk is SetXA, which is the one you mention I think. If it's properly installed already, just run it from Workbench and you get a nice window where you can set the memory speed to what it says on the chips (if the number ends with "-70", set 70 ns). (And also a 'AddXAMem' or whatever it was, which you only need if you have kick 3.0 or lower.)

You should also run the memory test on the disk to make sure the SIMM is not faulty. Could also be that it doesn't like ECC memory, if yours is ECC? But anyway, I've had one of these running fine with even bigger SIMMs, so first set the speed in SetXA (with a stable SIMM or no SIMM installed!!) and save to EEPROM, then insert SIMM and memtest.

fryguy · 24 March 2010, 21:15

@Riempie: Yep..

Riempie · 27 March 2010, 21:34

Ok, I did a mem test:

Selected test:
MSCAN
Selected memory area:
LOCAL RAM at address 8000000, size 4000000, 32bit
Cycle 1, MSCAN, LOCAL RAM at 8000000 started
--> MSCAN error 1 at 8054154 (54154), wrote 55555555, read 5f555555
--> lines: 25, 27.
--> MSCAN error 2 at 8054154 (54154), wrote aaaaaaaa, read afaa55aa
--> lines: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 24, 26.

It stopped aftere 16 errors.

This doesn't look good right?

24 March 2010, 19:07	#38
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,647	Riempie: The software from here? I think you can boot from the Install disk and it will successively test out the memory speed and set the correct settings on the EEPROM on the card. Not 100% it will boot flawlessly on kick 3.1 since the disk is from the WB 1.3 days. But on the disk is SetXA, which is the one you mention I think. If it's properly installed already, just run it from Workbench and you get a nice window where you can set the memory speed to what it says on the chips (if the number ends with "-70", set 70 ns). (And also a 'AddXAMem' or whatever it was, which you only need if you have kick 3.0 or lower.) You should also run the memory test on the disk to make sure the SIMM is not faulty. Could also be that it doesn't like ECC memory, if yours is ECC? But anyway, I've had one of these running fine with even bigger SIMMs, so first set the speed in SetXA (with a stable SIMM or no SIMM installed!!) and save to EEPROM, then insert SIMM and memtest. Last edited by Photon; 24 March 2010 at 19:16.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Microbotics Starboard 2	Loedown	MarketPlace	2	08 January 2010 23:23
Question about setXA (Microbotics M1230XA) utility	beltrixx	support.Apps	2	30 June 2009 00:47
Troubles booting with Microbotics M1230XA accelerator	thgill	support.Hardware	12	31 December 2008 18:12
SCSI HD Bootup/Mounting Problem (Possibly SFS Related?)	CU_AMiGA	support.Other	22	13 June 2007 15:22
Problem with Kickstarts [rare problem with faulty scripts in early v1.1 release]	Topgun	project.GameBase Amiga	14	08 June 2006 22:19

02 February 2010, 06:08	#21
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,647	Huh. Sounds like 'downgrading til it works'. Not that that's a bad thing, since that will run most games fine. But a bit cryptic and terse. Mind explaining those 3 words 8bitbubs? You tested these settings and this makes 'all' games including the problem games work, together with the NOAUTOVEC setting?

02 February 2010, 06:51	#22
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,712	It's more like a "test this and it might work with that"... It's a play thingie, the card is really weird with WHDLoad.

02 February 2010, 09:51	#23
hall Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 35	Nice to see some activity Now, if we ignore the WHDLoad problems for a while, what do you people reckon might be the reason for the _floppy_ versions of the games mentioned above working without the board installed, and inevitably crashing more or less immediately when the board is present?

02 February 2010, 09:52	#24
8bitbubsy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 1,712	Sounds like a CPU cache issue, or maybe MMU related..? On the 030 CPU that is.

02 February 2010, 09:58	#25
hall Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 35	Wow, you're fast! Is there anything I can do to confirm that this is the case, and if so, any suggestions on how to fix this? Thanks!

02 February 2010, 19:54	#27
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,647	hall, most games that run from floppy have issues running on anything but stock machines. Stock A500 or A1200. Nothing to do with any card. Only specific cracks ("100% fixed") have patched all the game code to accommodate upgraded machines. The specific version of your floppy game could throw up on anything, maybe it throws up on AGA, maybe it expects chipmem only, etc etc. So it's the usual incompatibilities, you can try disabling caches, but it could also be that you need a 100% fixed version of the game. I'm more interested in how to set that cache stuff in the WHDload config and what effect it has.

10 March 2010, 20:51	#29
Riempie Amiga freak Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 351	What type of memory does this board use anyway? Will it work with the same memory as the blizzard turbo cards? Sometimes I see memory for A1200 turbocards on ebay but I would't know if these will work.

14 March 2010, 04:49	#30
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Any 72pin SIMM will work with the MBX1230XA (but LASER PRINTER sticks, of course). From humble 4Mb up to 128Mb beasts. Too bad the card have heavy incompatibilities with WHDLoad and even with OS3.9 (on some cards OS3.9 simply don't boot. Worst combination is the Microbotics 1230XA with 1D1 motherboards.

14 March 2010, 19:09	#31
Photon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Eksjö / Sweden Posts: 5,647	It's a bit silly for something made in the mid 1990s to be compatible with a future operating system or a future superhackutility to play floppy games from workbench, though. It would be very very hard for Microbotics to be that clairvoyant. Haven't kept up on the WHDload threads, but I think the jury is still out whether MX1230 has problems with [the current version of] WHDload, or if it's a matter of setting some values and patching a few incompatible slaves. Coders of today have an advantage, the hardware needed to be supported have been out for decades If they all run Workbench 3.1, then either something in the hardware specs is making it impossible to run OS3.9 and WHDload, or OS3.9 and WHDload support a subset of the available Amiga hardware. I know it could be a lot of work to fix both, but it's better to be a little harsh than to brand some expansion as "incompatible" with software that was made 15 years later. It's a bit like the 68040 being "incompatible". Motorola didn't make that many CPUs to be compatible with... So coders should be aware of it and not use components or devsoftware or libs that aren't. And I'm a coder so I know how much work and boring it is to be compatible with everything. But blaming the hardware isn't the way out. If you type "xxx not supported!" in the specs, you're off the hook, if you don't want to do that you need to put in the compatibility code.

14 March 2010, 20:58	#33
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi Riempie, If you've just bought a new AT1200, it will have either a Rev 1.D.4 or Rev 2B motherboard, so there is nothing to suggest that you will have any problems running a Microbotics 1230XA accelerator card with it.

15 March 2010, 02:15	#34
rkauer I hate potatos and shirts Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sao Leopoldo / Brazil Age: 58 Posts: 3,482	Common problems related with the combination: all chips on the accelerator goes way too hot, even when system is idle. Stability problems when using OS3.9, MMU don't act as it must be, minor graphic corruption on screen (garbage) when using graphical patches (Birdie, Visual Prefs, you name it). That besides the problems in WHDLoad games which occurs with any mobo revision. No, you Amiga will not catch fire or stop working for good. Just minor irritating issues.

24 March 2010, 13:29	#35
Riempie Amiga freak Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 351	Ok... I've bought a 64mb ram module which should be compatible with this card. I already had 16mb which works fine. I know, 64mb isn't necessary but I thought it would be nice. I've got 2 A1200's. 1 Commodore A1200 and 1 AT A1200. The first one has a cf-hd (4gb) and kickrom 3.0. With the 64mb module it crashes at startup. When I hold down both mouse buttons at startup and boot with no startup-sequence and load the workbench or when I boot workbench from floppy it seems to work fine. The 64mb seems to be recognized but as soon as I go to one of my harddrive partitions or start a program it crashes again. Then I tried the card in my other AT A1200 which has kickrom 3.1 With this one it crashes too. Same problems. Then I tried it with my old 3.5 inch hd. It also crashes at startup, but it seems to work fine (it was stable for a couple of minutes, then I had to go to bed ) when I boot this HD with no startup-sequence. In all situations the 16mb module has no problems at all. Now I ask myself, is there something wrong with the module or is it the combination of hardware which produces these problems. I can't use the 64 mb module now because I need my cf-hd. Any suggestions? Thx in advance.

24 March 2010, 13:39	#36
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Skarabörg, Sweden Age: 45 Posts: 1,027	@Riempie: IIRC there was a program for the MBX1230 where you could the speed of the RAM perhaps it's set to high for the 64MB simm? Might be worth a try atleast.

24 March 2010, 13:45	#37
Riempie Amiga freak Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 351	Thx for you answer.. Hmm... set the speed, with kickstart 3.1 it should recognize the memory automatically (which it does). For kickstart 3.0 I need to configure the memory with the provided software. Do you mean this software? I see somthing with nanoseconds (which should be 60ns) and cycles. The last option is set automatically when I change the setting for nanoseconds. Or do you mean an other program with different options? Where can I find it?

24 March 2010, 21:15	#39
fryguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Skarabörg, Sweden Age: 45 Posts: 1,027	@Riempie: Yep..

27 March 2010, 21:34	#40
Riempie Amiga freak Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 351	Ok, I did a mem test: Selected test: MSCAN Selected memory area: LOCAL RAM at address 8000000, size 4000000, 32bit Cycle 1, MSCAN, LOCAL RAM at 8000000 started --> MSCAN error 1 at 8054154 (54154), wrote 55555555, read 5f555555 --> lines: 25, 27. --> MSCAN error 2 at 8054154 (54154), wrote aaaaaaaa, read afaa55aa --> lines: 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 24, 26. It stopped aftere 16 errors. This doesn't look good right?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)