Outrun AGA

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Actually, I remember reading, not so long a go, on this forum, that there is no AGA game (or is very very rare) that uses whole 256 color palette.
Not even the likes of Banshee, or Aladdin...
They are using more like 64-128 color palette.

There are other advantages to a 256 colour palette than having 256 unique colours on the screen (as counter-intuitive as that may seem).

Having "spare" palette entries makes it easier to use things like palette rotations for very low cost animation effects. And some tricks for creating the illusion of additional playfields work by duplicating palette entries in specific ways so that individual bitplanes can be "moved" with causing on screen artifacts.

But publishing many of these numbers was honestly more of a marketing thing than anything else. The SNES can do 256 colours on screen, but you sacrifice a lot to get there and it was usually more productive (and impressive) to use other modes with more layers. The marketing and hype for machines always just picked the biggest possible numbers as if they could all be used in conjunction, which was rarely the case.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

There are other advantages to a 256 colour palette than having 256 unique colours on the screen (as counter-intuitive as that may seem).

Having "spare" palette entries makes it easier to use things like palette rotations for very low cost animation effects. And some tricks for creating the illusion of additional playfields work by duplicating palette entries in specific ways so that individual bitplanes can be "moved" with causing on screen artifacts.

But publishing many of these numbers was honestly more of a marketing thing than anything else. The SNES can do 256 colours on screen, but you sacrifice a lot to get there and it was usually more productive (and impressive) to use other modes with more layers. The marketing and hype for machines always just picked the biggest possible numbers as if they could all be used in conjunction, which was rarely the case.

Most SNES games use only 128 colors. 256 colors is for fixed screen, it's too costly to use ingame.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

But publishing many of these numbers was honestly more of a marketing thing than anything else.

Wait... you wanna say that Blast Processing was not the real thing?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

256 colors is for fixed screen, it's too costly to use ingame.

Not so sure about that. Looking at Secret of Mana screenshots it seems they use 256 colors in game.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by TCD

Not so sure about that. Looking at Secret of Mana screenshots it seems they use 256 colors in game.

It's an RPG game.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

It's an RPG game.

Have you ever played Secret of Mana? It's a full 8 way scrolling action game that has RPG elements.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Wait... you wanna say that Blast Processing was not the real thing?

It was a real thing, taking advantage of the way you'd get colour artifacts on screen if you hammered values across the bus when you aren't really supposed to (or some such shenanigans). Wasn't ever actually used in a real cart, until recently, because the timing was too tricky.

Didn't stop the ads though.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Most SNES games use only 128 colors. 256 colors is for fixed screen, it's too costly to use ingame.

It's not so much about speed, it's that you lose layers and the 16-bit era was all about parallax!

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by AestheticDebris

It's not so much about speed, it's that you lose layers and the 16-bit era was all about parallax!

Not only the 16-bit era

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by TCD

Not so sure about that. Looking at Secret of Mana screenshots it seems they use 256 colors in game.

Not so sure about that too . 256 colors were Indeed rarely used on SNES in game.

https://nesdoug.com/2020/04/02/snes-...208%20palettes.

Mode 1
2 layers of 16 colors per tile.

1 layer of 4 colors per tile.

This is the most used mode. Nearly every game uses mode 1 most of the time. Typically, the first 16 color layer for foreground and other for background. Then the 4 color layer is used for text boxes or HUD / score display.

(8 palettes, both 16 color layers share the same 8 palettes. 15 colors per palette x 8 palettes + 1 backdrop color = 121 BG colors. The 4 color layer has to share palette space with the first palette of the other layers.)

Secret of Mana use only Mode 3 (256 colors screen) in the title screen and for the flat world map.
It is uncommon enough to be specified here : https://snes.nesdev.org/wiki/Uncommo...ics_mode_games

Note that SNES use planar gfx like the Amiga.

[agermose]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

I know what you mean. If only we had a port. A port is a 1:1 carry over of the code and graphics; just like Dizzy 2 was ported over from the Amstrad to the Spectrum and C64, and was identical. A conversion is built from scratch, and is an interpretation. So Dizzy 2 is a good convention, but OutRun is a totally bad one. That's why half of the CD32 games are bad, because they are just ports from the A1200.




Ah ok, 32 colours does sound good actually.

Don't forget, Out Run is the game's official name, not Outrun.

I've updated this to Playable status on lemon, and added an 'Active' tag as well. You guys please take it easy, I don't like to see burn-outs, I prefer doughnuts.

Where exactly on Lemon is this?

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Not so sure about that too . 256 colors were Indeed rarely used on SNES in game.

https://nesdoug.com/2020/04/02/snes-...208%20palettes.



Secret of Mana use only Mode 3 (256 colors screen) in the title screen and for the flat world map.
It is uncommon enough to be specified here : https://snes.nesdev.org/wiki/Uncommo...ics_mode_games

Note that SNES use planar gfx like the Amiga.

Exactly what i was saying. The SNES CPU is too weak compared to the chipset it works with. This because the SNES was meant to have a 68000 at 10 mhz, but Hiroshi Yamauchi said no, use something cheaper to keep the cost lower. So they went for the 65816.

[AestheticDebris]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Note that SNES use planar gfx like the Amiga.

Tiles are stored in a planar format, but that's where the similarity ends. 8 bit-planes on the Amiga is a strain on the hardware because you are constantly updating an entire bitmap. On the SNES, once you've loaded in the tile data, you're just manipulating a tile map and sprites which is a lot less intensive an operation.

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

Exactly what i was saying. The SNES CPU is too weak compared to the chipset it works with.

It was certainly weak, I think Nintendo underestimated how much more complex games were going to be compared to the NES. If all you're doing is replicating the kind of gameplay you saw on the NES, it's fine. But programmers wanted to do more, they wanted the CPU grunt to calculate more complex attack patterns, improved enemy AI and use all those available sprites to have more on screen action.

But it's nothing to do with colour depth, the more common Mode 1 is still pushing 10 bitplanes around without breaking sweat, it's just using them to better effect than getting 256 colours per tile. Note also that even with 4bpp, tiles on a layer can use different palettes, so they aren't necessarily all the same 16-colours either.

[ Show youtube player ]

Gives a good summary

[agermose]

Now back to our regular programming of Amiga OutRun.

[Cris1997XX]

Originally Posted by agermose

Now back to our regular programming of Amiga OutRun.

No, let's keep talking about the SNES

[malko]

Originally Posted by Cris1997XX

No, let's keep talking about the SNES

You are welcome to open anew thread discussing further the SNES.
For this one, the OP, wants the thread to be recentered to his AGA port of Out Run

[TCD]

Originally Posted by malko

You are welcome to open anew thread discussing further the SNES.
For this one, the OP, wants the thread to be recentered to his AGA port of Out Run

Would be great if the 'OT' (SNES) content could be moved into a new Retrogaming General Discussion thread.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by agermose

Where exactly on Lemon is this?

We have a list of games released in 2024, and in development.

https://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/vie...hp?f=2&t=19114

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Actually, I remember reading, not so long a go, on this forum, that there is no AGA game (or is very very rare) that uses whole 256 color palette.
Not even the likes of Banshee, or Aladdin...
They are using more like 64-128 color palette.

I don't think there were no 256 colour AGA games, as some people must have made single screen point and click adventures with it.?

On the OCS machines, I think Universe uses more than 128 colours. My prototype game Jari-Matti Rally uses HAM6 Video, but it needs an 030. I could have used HAM8 but it would be much larger file size.



Don't worry, I think for this 32 colour OutRun game, 32 colours is all that is needed.

[agermose]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

We have a list of games released in 2024, and in development.

https://www.lemonamiga.com/forum/vie...hp?f=2&t=19114

Great, now we just need to figure out who AngerMouse is