American Laser Games (Mad Dog McCree and others) - Page 14

jwallace · 23 January 2017, 09:32

Well, I've spent a weekend playing with the video, not sure about this, but it looks like the video playback can't seek to a frame that isn't a keyframe? This causes problems for Mad Dog 1 in particular as some of the map screens etc only exist as single frames, so it can't play them back correctly. I know filesizes would be huge, but it might be worth encoding stuff in something like an MJPEG or similar where every frame is a keyframe, as this is precisely the sort of problem that Dpahne had (hence it parsing all it's video in advance). MAME when they did do stuff with laserdiscs stored each frame separately in a HuffYUV kind of setup, so it didn't need the indexing.

Toni Wilen · 23 January 2017, 12:17

AFAIK it depends on codec/splitter, some can support it. (find previous key frame and then fast forward to requested frame)

earok · 23 January 2017, 12:20

@jwallace

What you gave me seems to work, though I had to trim 0.06 (two frames) from the start to make things line up. I'm not totally sure it lines up 100% but the bottle shooting is fine and the level selection screen is no longer blank.

I don't know if it was just that the first two frames were redundant or if the whole video plays a fraction of a second too long, it's quite possible it goes out of sync later in the game.

So where'd you get it and do you have more?

Download's coming in the next hour, thought I'd post this a little prematurely just to give you a head's up.

jwallace · 23 January 2017, 12:29

I just had an M2V and OGG of it on an old hard drive, but it had loads of duff frames at the start and end, so I tried to fix it up.

I was using the hardware test screens to line it up, but I don't think the Mad dog test is any good. I don't have any more like that, but I reckon it's possible to rebuild a playable file from the SINGE videos, but I'm trying to reach the guy who did the SINGE games originally to see if he has any leads.

That said, I think my I frame interval was too high when i did it - I'm still learning to use my NLE.

earok · 23 January 2017, 13:11

Ah ok, well from my (limited testing) it seems to be good asides from the aforementioned issue of needing to cut a couple of frames from the start.

Any case, here's Mad Dog McCree:

https://mega.nz/#!BJg2EbJS!p_DJRx8ly...Wu8Il62frUUj7A

I'll put a disclaimer on the OP that the frames may not be aligned 100%

jwallace · 23 January 2017, 13:24

There's supposed to be a trick, in hardware tests the first test is supposed to show a grid pattern or colour bars, and given that's near the end of the disc it's probably OK if that works. I'll playtest it anyway.

Editing to say that people looking for footage (albeit at lower qualities) might be able to do things wiht the Philips CDI, that was MPEG-1. I happen to have my old copy of Crime Patrol from that console, but haven't looked at it to see what it has.

Toni Wilen · 23 January 2017, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwallace

I was wondering, on the same subject, if there's a way of logging the Laserdisc player commands, as it might help with sorting the footage out.

-ldlog x added to winuae.7z (1 = ignore current position query because it is continuously called and would only flood the log, 2 = all commands)

jwallace · 23 January 2017, 17:31

Thanks, I was asking because I know a little bit about the hardware (or at least, the Picmatic version for Zorton Brothers etc, it's a great way of making sure the hitboxes line up, but I tried to log it and it just swamped the window).

Actually, that's a point - I'm guessing Zorton Brothers and Marbella Vice are much harder to find? They're basically weird Spanish produced versions of a Mad Dog and Crime Patrol type game, and are fun if a bit long winded.

earok · 24 January 2017, 01:18

The TV calibration screen shows up on the menu, so I think it's safe to say this was a successful recovery.

The only thing that really concerns me is the background of the configuration screen is so dark.. maybe there was a frame right at the very beginning it was supposed to play but has now been cut, I'm not sure.

utri007 · 24 January 2017, 09:21

What you think? Would it be possbile to make this run with real amigas? Maybe whdload game?

I do realice that videos are huge problem.

jwallace · 25 January 2017, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by earok

The TV calibration screen shows up on the menu, so I think it's safe to say this was a successful recovery.

The only thing that really concerns me is the background of the configuration screen is so dark.. maybe there was a frame right at the very beginning it was supposed to play but has now been cut, I'm not sure.

Looks like it's meant to be black as far as I can see, certainly as the first title the diagnostic stuff will be a bit weaker.

Can I just ask, should it be saving settings and adjustments? I get the RAM failure screen every time and I wonder if it's my configuration?

On the other hand, I'm trying to put Crime Patrol together from individual video files and that looks like it could work, but we will be missing test screens etc. If I get it together I'll post it here.

MickGyver · 25 January 2017, 16:33

This is great, I always wanted to try Mad Dog McCree back in the day but never got a chance. I would love to try this out, but I'm unable to find the ALG roms, did I somehow miss them or are they not in The Zone anymore?

Toni Wilen · 25 January 2017, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwallace

Can I just ask, should it be saving settings and adjustments? I get the RAM failure screen every time and I wonder if it's my configuration?

ROM panel -> set "Flash RAM or.." path.

DamienD · 25 January 2017, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by witchmaster

I would love to try this out, but I'm unable to find the ALG roms, did I somehow miss them or are they not in The Zone anymore?

"alg.zip" back in The Zone! for you witchmaster

MickGyver · 25 January 2017, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

"alg.zip" back in The Zone! for you witchmaster

Thanks DamienD, much appreciated!

jwallace · 01 February 2017, 10:31

I've been looking at what's out there, and what could conceivably be made into usable footage based on what has been released. As far as I can tell, there's enough out there to make playable games for everything other than Zorton Brothers, Marbella Vice and Fast Draw Showdown. This last one is the only one that would run with the emulation as we have it I think, albeit with the monitor needing to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise, as with the real game. MAME has decryption for the other two, which strictly speaking run on PAL hardware as they were made in Spain, but without any laserdiscs or home releases, there's not much can be done. I did noted that there was a PC release of Fast Draw Showdown at one point, but it is very rare, largely because the game scripting used couldn't really replicate the original game behaviour that well. It was in the arcade rerlease though, seemingly using the same engine, so not sure what's going on there. Anyway, thought I'd just point that out.

phasermaniac · 22 February 2017, 21:37

Hi! very nice to see Gallagher's gallery working!
I have an Arcade cabinet with an Aimtrak lightgun, and i can't make it work. It seems WinUae has an "Install virtual mouse driver" and "Full tablet emulation", this may be the way to go as the tablet is an absolute coordinate device as the lightgun, but when I activate this option Winuae doesn't seem to boot.

Also it would rock if the yellow croshair can be hidden. Anybody tried this?

Toni Wilen · 22 February 2017, 21:51

Currently lightpen/gun emulation only supports real relative mouse input.

Mouse driver/table emulation is Amiga-side driver, it won't work with games that take over the system.

phasermaniac · 26 February 2017, 00:25

Hello Toni, are you sure? I have read some forum where talks about "instal virtual mouse driver as the solution for getting winuaes cursor in place through virtuabox, that seems works in absolute coords, and also for using winuae on tablets.
The problem is when I check this option winuae crashes, I tested it in two different computers with one graphics tablet and the other with two aimtraks, and got the same results. Any ADVISE?

Toni Wilen · 26 February 2017, 13:41

Yes. As I said, mouse driver only works if AmigaOS is running, it won't work if program takes over the system, like most games do.

Lightpen also works totally differently than mouse, it needs totally different way to support tablets/touchscreens. Hopefully later 3.4.1 beta will support it..

(It does not explain the crash, please attach your config file. I can't duplicate any crashes)

23 January 2017, 12:29	#264
jwallace Registered User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield/UK Posts: 36	I just had an M2V and OGG of it on an old hard drive, but it had loads of duff frames at the start and end, so I tried to fix it up. I was using the hardware test screens to line it up, but I don't think the Mad dog test is any good. I don't have any more like that, but I reckon it's possible to rebuild a playable file from the SINGE videos, but I'm trying to reach the guy who did the SINGE games originally to see if he has any leads. That said, I think my I frame interval was too high when i did it - I'm still learning to use my NLE. Last edited by jwallace; 23 January 2017 at 12:50.

23 January 2017, 13:24	#266
jwallace Registered User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield/UK Posts: 36	There's supposed to be a trick, in hardware tests the first test is supposed to show a grid pattern or colour bars, and given that's near the end of the disc it's probably OK if that works. I'll playtest it anyway. Editing to say that people looking for footage (albeit at lower qualities) might be able to do things wiht the Philips CDI, that was MPEG-1. I happen to have my old copy of Crime Patrol from that console, but haven't looked at it to see what it has. Last edited by jwallace; 23 January 2017 at 13:34.

23 January 2017, 17:31	#268
jwallace Registered User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield/UK Posts: 36	Thanks, I was asking because I know a little bit about the hardware (or at least, the Picmatic version for Zorton Brothers etc, it's a great way of making sure the hitboxes line up, but I tried to log it and it just swamped the window). Actually, that's a point - I'm guessing Zorton Brothers and Marbella Vice are much harder to find? They're basically weird Spanish produced versions of a Mad Dog and Crime Patrol type game, and are fun if a bit long winded. Last edited by jwallace; 23 January 2017 at 20:42.

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23 January 2017, 09:32	#261
jwallace Registered User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield/UK Posts: 36	Well, I've spent a weekend playing with the video, not sure about this, but it looks like the video playback can't seek to a frame that isn't a keyframe? This causes problems for Mad Dog 1 in particular as some of the map screens etc only exist as single frames, so it can't play them back correctly. I know filesizes would be huge, but it might be worth encoding stuff in something like an MJPEG or similar where every frame is a keyframe, as this is precisely the sort of problem that Dpahne had (hence it parsing all it's video in advance). MAME when they did do stuff with laserdiscs stored each frame separately in a HuffYUV kind of setup, so it didn't need the indexing.

23 January 2017, 12:17	#262
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	AFAIK it depends on codec/splitter, some can support it. (find previous key frame and then fast forward to requested frame)

23 January 2017, 12:20	#263
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,543	@jwallace What you gave me seems to work, though I had to trim 0.06 (two frames) from the start to make things line up. I'm not totally sure it lines up 100% but the bottle shooting is fine and the level selection screen is no longer blank. I don't know if it was just that the first two frames were redundant or if the whole video plays a fraction of a second too long, it's quite possible it goes out of sync later in the game. So where'd you get it and do you have more? Download's coming in the next hour, thought I'd post this a little prematurely just to give you a head's up.

23 January 2017, 13:11	#265
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,543	Ah ok, well from my (limited testing) it seems to be good asides from the aforementioned issue of needing to cut a couple of frames from the start. Any case, here's Mad Dog McCree: https://mega.nz/#!BJg2EbJS!p_DJRx8ly...Wu8Il62frUUj7A I'll put a disclaimer on the OP that the frames may not be aligned 100%

24 January 2017, 01:18	#269
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,543	The TV calibration screen shows up on the menu, so I think it's safe to say this was a successful recovery. The only thing that really concerns me is the background of the configuration screen is so dark.. maybe there was a frame right at the very beginning it was supposed to play but has now been cut, I'm not sure.

24 January 2017, 09:21	#270
utri007 mä vaan Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 1,664	What you think? Would it be possbile to make this run with real amigas? Maybe whdload game? I do realice that videos are huge problem.

25 January 2017, 16:33	#272
MickGyver Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 643	This is great, I always wanted to try Mad Dog McCree back in the day but never got a chance. I would love to try this out, but I'm unable to find the ALG roms, did I somehow miss them or are they not in The Zone anymore?

01 February 2017, 10:31	#276
jwallace Registered User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sheffield/UK Posts: 36	I've been looking at what's out there, and what could conceivably be made into usable footage based on what has been released. As far as I can tell, there's enough out there to make playable games for everything other than Zorton Brothers, Marbella Vice and Fast Draw Showdown. This last one is the only one that would run with the emulation as we have it I think, albeit with the monitor needing to be rotated 90 degrees clockwise, as with the real game. MAME has decryption for the other two, which strictly speaking run on PAL hardware as they were made in Spain, but without any laserdiscs or home releases, there's not much can be done. I did noted that there was a PC release of Fast Draw Showdown at one point, but it is very rare, largely because the game scripting used couldn't really replicate the original game behaviour that well. It was in the arcade rerlease though, seemingly using the same engine, so not sure what's going on there. Anyway, thought I'd just point that out.

22 February 2017, 21:37	#277
phasermaniac Registered User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: castelló Posts: 84	Hi! very nice to see Gallagher's gallery working! I have an Arcade cabinet with an Aimtrak lightgun, and i can't make it work. It seems WinUae has an "Install virtual mouse driver" and "Full tablet emulation", this may be the way to go as the tablet is an absolute coordinate device as the lightgun, but when I activate this option Winuae doesn't seem to boot. Also it would rock if the yellow croshair can be hidden. Anybody tried this?

22 February 2017, 21:51	#278
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Currently lightpen/gun emulation only supports real relative mouse input. Mouse driver/table emulation is Amiga-side driver, it won't work with games that take over the system.

26 February 2017, 00:25	#279
phasermaniac Registered User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: castelló Posts: 84	Hello Toni, are you sure? I have read some forum where talks about "instal virtual mouse driver as the solution for getting winuaes cursor in place through virtuabox, that seems works in absolute coords, and also for using winuae on tablets. The problem is when I check this option winuae crashes, I tested it in two different computers with one graphics tablet and the other with two aimtraks, and got the same results. Any ADVISE?

26 February 2017, 13:41	#280
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,534	Yes. As I said, mouse driver only works if AmigaOS is running, it won't work if program takes over the system, like most games do. Lightpen also works totally differently than mouse, it needs totally different way to support tablets/touchscreens. Hopefully later 3.4.1 beta will support it.. (It does not explain the crash, please attach your config file. I can't duplicate any crashes)

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