Classic Workbench Question - Page 12

NewDeli · 12 October 2009, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

incidentally, 800x600 may be a convenient resolution, and Bloodwych said it had to be used with P96, but as we amply discussed it with R-N and Elowar last night, the correct 3.1 WB resolution is 640x512 or 640x256 line-doubled.
So if you don't use filters, you want a proportional resolution (e.g. 1280x1024) set when going full-screen.

Never mind that part, it was me thinking out loud.
Meanwhile, I have created a thread to discuss these mismatching resolution issues.

Oh, and you're mentionning WHDLoad gaming again TCD, while I repeatedly explained my part would be to contribute to make sure she would finally start using that bloody Workbench (oh, that was a lame

joke ! ), after all the pimping and tweaking.

And believe it or not, the other thread I have created today is completely relevant, although I think like you that gaming should prevail over the pimping, ultimately.

Admittedly, it's a bit puzzling to you because she's working a lot on how her WB looks like (but will perhaps discard ClassicWB if I get it right) and at the same time, she doesn't seem that impatient to play games.

About the A4000 configs, I'd prefer not to comment at all, if you don't mind. With others, you can deem this proposition I made to Toni as worthless, I am fine with it.

Bloodwych · 12 October 2009, 16:23

I forgot to add, you change the Workbench text colour through the Workbench Prefs tool like Deleavive showed in his pic and Cyber Druid explained - you don't need to use Scalos palette for that. If it wasn't saving, I can't explain it. So it's not a bug, as it works fine my end. Some of the other items you do need to change in the Scalos prefs as tero said. Looks like you've sorted that? This thread is hard to follow!!!!

Also, to change pens in the Scalos prefs palette editor, you drag and drop the colours fixed in place on the left to the pens box on the right.

Kitty, you asked what the pink colour was for - it's for girls! No really, it's part of a fixed palette to ensure compatibility with magicwb icons, of which there are plenty kicking around. Without those fixed colours, you get strange colour effects in the icons.

Scalos has a few bugs, but nothing serious enough to get in the way of anything. Run the same patches separately to get similar features in a standard Workbench and you will come across more problems. I know because I've thoroughly tested both types of configs. It does require more user knowledge however; something I gained by reading the provided manuals. The new Scalos I just can't get working right on standard A1200's and Workbench 3.0/1 - it seems focused at OS3.5/9.

Retro-Nerd · 12 October 2009, 16:25

Quote:

...something I gained by reading the provided manuals.

And i'm way too lazy for that.

Bloodwych · 12 October 2009, 16:32

Don't blame you Retro-Nerd. I agree though, Scalos isn't intuitive to new users and complicates things.

Bloodwych · 12 October 2009, 18:33

Actually, back to the icon corruption issue that appears in a flash whilst rendering - it does the same thing in OS3.9 (default install) with Glowicons so I was a bit harsh on Scalos there. I think it's made worse by interlaced screens and dark backgrounds, also it can't be noticed on very fast systems. Can't seem to find the cause of it however; not that it's ever bothered me before.

It just seems if you want transparent backgrounds for the icons, this glitch is part of the deal.

NewDeli · 12 October 2009, 18:44

In ClassicWB "ENV-handler is disabled by default" Don't you think enabling this in any WB or AmigaOS is rather critical ? May be it could help dealing with the icon issue. (just my 2$)

tero · 12 October 2009, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

Actually, back to the icon corruption issue that appears in a flash whilst rendering - it does the same thing in OS3.9 with Glowicons so I was a bit harsh on Scalos there. I think it's made worse by interlaced screens. Can't seem to find the cause of it yet however; not that it's ever bothered me before.

Interesting, i guessed it was newicon fault because it does the same in
non-interlaced modes (even faster)

Can't say for 3.9 Glow (i'm using AfA)

TCD · 12 October 2009, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleauvive

Don't you think enabling this in any WB or AmigaOS is rather critical ?

Why? It merely saves some RAM and there's nothing gained in terms of functionality.

Bloodwych · 12 October 2009, 18:55

Deleavive, it won't help with the Icon issue, and yes ENV-handler is a very nice way to save memory. But these packs are just a base install for users to configure themselves. They are not and can never be a perfect solution out of the box.

So while I agree it is in most cases better enabled, certain things I like to leave disabled if they have the possibility of causing problems. On the default ClassicWB installs, it saves very little memory. If the user installs more items, it may be required but it is a system patch. I was actually thinking of disabling more patches by default and letting the user opt-in, because on rare occasions they can cause issues.

I try and have as few patches enabled by default as possible. As you've probably noticed, my install is the only one where you can enable and disable everything pretty easily from menus. It's probably the most accessible Workbench from that point of view, along with the fact you can multi-boot into a pure (patch-less) Workbench as well.

With this in mind, I think its safer to leave this disabled and let people easily enable it from the menus if they notice it saves them more memory.

NewDeli · 12 October 2009, 22:41

Sure Bloodwych, why would I ask you to set it enabled as default ? Besides, it's the only patch from the menu which is not enabled, so it's very easy to enable it/disable it for testing purposes.

It's simply that I found out about env-handler and though it was a nice and uncommon pick, had it set in my AmigaOS 3.9 installation (along with the AmberRAM RAM disk), when I noticed it was enabled in AmigaSYS and possibly in AIAB.

As for faster (faster = less time to notice the blinking, not really a fix but rather a workaround) icon loading, I think Cycle-exact should be enabled with ClassicWB, in all scenarios). I believe the brief icon flashing happens on real Amigas too.

@Kitty
If you have the chance to test it with a faster Host machine, it should be even less noticeable.

Kitty · 15 October 2009, 18:35

Quote:

@Kitty
Finally i may found the answer for the not scaled background image,
is it too late now?
Exact the same problem is asked in scalos faq

GUIGfx option is not set (scalos/prefs/scalos pattern)

tero that worked btw

tero · 15 October 2009, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitty

tero that worked btw

bloodwych confirmed that above, but good to hear you are tryin' again

And congrats to Ahi

Kitty · 15 October 2009, 19:05

Quote:

Wow Kitty, you're hard to please! No one has every mentioned the rendering of the Newicons before under Scalos! As you said, it happens really fast.

lol, sorry Bloodwych it wasn't a dig at Classic Workbench, just something I noticed and thought might of been a bug, now you have confirmed its a normal occurrence, I'm happy with your explanation

Bloodwych · 15 October 2009, 23:07

No probs Kitty, I was just joking about you being hard to please, hence the

. Or perhaps you are, for all I know!

TCD · 15 October 2009, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

Or perhaps you are, for all I know!

She is... kinda

Kitty · 17 October 2009, 00:35

Yeah Im gonna start playing some games rather than reporting workbench problems, I just cause arguments

Look forward to some questions about why certain games wont work on my WinUAE setup!

TCD · 17 October 2009, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitty

Look forward to some questions about why certain games wont work on my WinUAE setup!

Hehe

Post away Kitty, I got a WB to test

Kitty · 19 October 2009, 04:03

I finally made the update to Classic Workbench UAE, got all versions of Amiga to run exactly how I want them too on this setup, so a step up from 'noob' status!

Thankyou everyone who helped me get to where I am

NewDeli · 19 October 2009, 10:03

That would be Kitty in ClassicWB land (World 1), Stage 2, then

.
I hope you don't mind if I leave it to Player 2 & 3 to complete the remaining stages, and take you to wonderful World 2 : Playing preinstalled games.

May be I'll catch up when you get to World 3 (browsing Aminet software repository), or 4 (manually upgrading from WB 3.1).

Kitty · 23 October 2009, 23:24

Awesomeness

Is there any way to change the games & demo icons, so they look a bit better?

12 October 2009, 16:23	#222
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I forgot to add, you change the Workbench text colour through the Workbench Prefs tool like Deleavive showed in his pic and Cyber Druid explained - you don't need to use Scalos palette for that. If it wasn't saving, I can't explain it. So it's not a bug, as it works fine my end. Some of the other items you do need to change in the Scalos prefs as tero said. Looks like you've sorted that? This thread is hard to follow!!!! Also, to change pens in the Scalos prefs palette editor, you drag and drop the colours fixed in place on the left to the pens box on the right. Kitty, you asked what the pink colour was for - it's for girls! No really, it's part of a fixed palette to ensure compatibility with magicwb icons, of which there are plenty kicking around. Without those fixed colours, you get strange colour effects in the icons. Scalos has a few bugs, but nothing serious enough to get in the way of anything. Run the same patches separately to get similar features in a standard Workbench and you will come across more problems. I know because I've thoroughly tested both types of configs. It does require more user knowledge however; something I gained by reading the provided manuals. The new Scalos I just can't get working right on standard A1200's and Workbench 3.0/1 - it seems focused at OS3.5/9. Last edited by Bloodwych; 12 October 2009 at 16:42.

12 October 2009, 18:33	#225
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Actually, back to the icon corruption issue that appears in a flash whilst rendering - it does the same thing in OS3.9 (default install) with Glowicons so I was a bit harsh on Scalos there. I think it's made worse by interlaced screens and dark backgrounds, also it can't be noticed on very fast systems. Can't seem to find the cause of it however; not that it's ever bothered me before. It just seems if you want transparent backgrounds for the icons, this glitch is part of the deal. Last edited by Bloodwych; 12 October 2009 at 18:43.

19 October 2009, 04:03	#238
Kitty Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 1,532	Update I finally made the update to Classic Workbench UAE, got all versions of Amiga to run exactly how I want them too on this setup, so a step up from 'noob' status! Thankyou everyone who helped me get to where I am

23 October 2009, 23:24	#240
Kitty Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 1,532	Awesomeness Is there any way to change the games & demo icons, so they look a bit better? Last edited by Kitty; 23 October 2009 at 23:36.

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12 October 2009, 16:32	#224
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Don't blame you Retro-Nerd. I agree though, Scalos isn't intuitive to new users and complicates things.

12 October 2009, 18:44	#226
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	In ClassicWB "ENV-handler is disabled by default" Don't you think enabling this in any WB or AmigaOS is rather critical ? May be it could help dealing with the icon issue. (just my 2$)

12 October 2009, 18:55	#229
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	Deleavive, it won't help with the Icon issue, and yes ENV-handler is a very nice way to save memory. But these packs are just a base install for users to configure themselves. They are not and can never be a perfect solution out of the box. So while I agree it is in most cases better enabled, certain things I like to leave disabled if they have the possibility of causing problems. On the default ClassicWB installs, it saves very little memory. If the user installs more items, it may be required but it is a system patch. I was actually thinking of disabling more patches by default and letting the user opt-in, because on rare occasions they can cause issues. I try and have as few patches enabled by default as possible. As you've probably noticed, my install is the only one where you can enable and disable everything pretty easily from menus. It's probably the most accessible Workbench from that point of view, along with the fact you can multi-boot into a pure (patch-less) Workbench as well. With this in mind, I think its safer to leave this disabled and let people easily enable it from the menus if they notice it saves them more memory.

12 October 2009, 22:41	#230
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	Sure Bloodwych, why would I ask you to set it enabled as default ? Besides, it's the only patch from the menu which is not enabled, so it's very easy to enable it/disable it for testing purposes. It's simply that I found out about env-handler and though it was a nice and uncommon pick, had it set in my AmigaOS 3.9 installation (along with the AmberRAM RAM disk), when I noticed it was enabled in AmigaSYS and possibly in AIAB. As for faster (faster = less time to notice the blinking, not really a fix but rather a workaround) icon loading, I think Cycle-exact should be enabled with ClassicWB, in all scenarios). I believe the brief icon flashing happens on real Amigas too. @Kitty If you have the chance to test it with a faster Host machine, it should be even less noticeable.

15 October 2009, 23:07	#234
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	No probs Kitty, I was just joking about you being hard to please, hence the . Or perhaps you are, for all I know!

17 October 2009, 00:35	#236
Kitty Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 1,532	Yeah Im gonna start playing some games rather than reporting workbench problems, I just cause arguments Look forward to some questions about why certain games wont work on my WinUAE setup!

19 October 2009, 10:03	#239
NewDeli Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paris / FRANCE Age: 50 Posts: 1,248	That would be Kitty in ClassicWB land (World 1), Stage 2, then . I hope you don't mind if I leave it to Player 2 & 3 to complete the remaining stages, and take you to wonderful World 2 : Playing preinstalled games. May be I'll catch up when you get to World 3 (browsing Aminet software repository), or 4 (manually upgrading from WB 3.1).

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