New products for C64 and Amiga from Individual Computers

[Retrofan]

Yes, but it isn't so easy to find a good ATX. The number of watts isn't enough and Jens knows a lot about the matter. I would gladly buy one for my full expanded Amiga; the one of AmiKit is too close to what it is actually using.

[BarryB]

I've got one of Amigakits 300w ATX units for my desktop A1200, it's powering the A1200, Indivison AGA MK2, BlizzardPPC + 060, Dual CF card, External floppy and wireless PCMCIA card and seems OK for this setup. Not sure how much you need if you go tower and busboard with gfx, sound, network, cd-rom, usb etc!!

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

The number of watts isn't enough and Jens knows a lot about the matter.

This ^
Jens talked about ripple some time ago. It's not about watts.
So it would be best if Jens sourced some Amiga-friendly PSUs, modified the plug and put them on sale. Not much R&D (compared to accelerators/scan doublers) and still some profit would trickle in.

I would buy one for sure.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by BarryB

I've got one of Amigakits 300w ATX units for my desktop A1200, it's powering the A1200, Indivison AGA MK2, BlizzardPPC + 060, Dual CF card, External floppy and wireless PCMCIA card and seems OK for this setup. Not sure how much you need if you go tower and busboard with gfx, sound, network, cd-rom, usb etc!!

I think a good quality 150W PSU should be enough for a towered Amiga. Maybe a bit more if it has many HDDs, which need some current for startup.
Many are using insanely powerful PSUs for their PCs nowadays. 300W would be plenty for most PCs and 400W for high-end gaming rigs (except for SLI/Crossfire setups), but people still seem to think that they need a 1kW PSU.. Remember that a quality 150W >> lousy 300W.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

This ^
Jens talked about ripple some time ago. It's not about watts.
So it would be best if Jens sourced some Amiga-friendly PSUs, modified the plug and put them on sale. Not much R&D (compared to accelerators/scan doublers) and still some profit would trickle in.

I would buy one for sure.

Yes, to change the plug would be a very important point.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by demolition

Many are using insanely powerful PSUs for their PCs nowadays.

For good reasons. PSU ratings indicate what they are able to deliver, as new. Over the years, this isn't retained...

Originally Posted by demolition

300W would be plenty for most PCs and 400W for high-end gaming rigs (except for SLI/Crossfire setups),

You'd be surprised. The system i'm on right now is nothing fancy. I5 2500K @ 4Ghz, 4x2GB memory, 6 500GB drives, 1 120GB SSD, and a AMD Radeon 7950 from Sapphire, some factory OC version. I'm stable on a 630w PSU, but only just. When ever i try and OC the GFX, the system starts throwing really weird errors, unless i drop the clock on the CPU. Yet PSU calculators "estimate" my wattage at about 453w minimum. And just for reference, i have snagged the PSU from my server which is a 2x450w unit, hotplug and stuff... System is rock solid when OC'ing. The PSU i'm "stuck" using just cant handle it. So with the next SSD i'm buying, i'm ordering a new PSU, aiming slightly over the wattage i got now, and one with better efficiency to start.

Originally Posted by demolition

but people still seem to think that they need a 1kW PSU.. Remember that a quality 150W >> lousy 300W.

Your reasoning is flawed. Most systems where people get to pick their PSU them self isn't anywhere near 150w systems. Even on a 300w PSU, a quality one, you'd be hard pressed to run the system. Do people need 1Kw to run their system? All I need to go from my current system to one that puts me in that region is a CPU upgrade, and a switch to SLi / Crossfire on the latest GPU's. Hell, a 7970 GHz edition, or OC'd hits 300w on it's own... What are you going to do, run 3 of them?
Add to that the fact that PSU's generally are most efficient somewhere between 65 & 85% of their max capacity, and that as they age, efficiency gets worse. Do people actually NEED 1Kw PSU's? Yeah. I'm quite sure there are people that do. Would you need one for an Amiga. No. Most likely not. I'm getting by on a APOWER PSU, thats what... 55w? Sure, all i got is whats in my signature, but still.

[Loedown]

Some modern ATX supplies aren't even coming out with a -5 V rail any more which means a 7905 needs to be connected to the adapter cable with a couple of capacitors.

I personally run a 430W Thermaltake PSU in my A2000 which is;

A2000 base board
Indivision ECS
CDROM ( SCSI )
2 x Acard Scsi ---> IDE
2 x 4Gb CF cards
GVP '030 Combo with 16 Mb
Single Floppy


I think the problem with power supplies now is that it can be hard to find a reputable supplier / manufacturer that will continue to make a product for more than 5 minutes before it's superseded. It still remains a better option to make the adapter cables like Amigamaniac used to ( still does ? ) or Amigakit, but then you still have to specify whether your ATX supply has the -5 V rail.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Loedown

Some modern ATX supplies aren't even coming out with a -5 V rail any more which means a 7905 needs to be connected to the adapter cable with a couple of capacitors.

Some? With ATX 1.2 it was "optional" but ever since ATX 1.3 became the standard, -5v is no longer a part of the specification. It's not explicitly prohibited, but since it was only included for legacy (ISA) systems to start with, and ATX standard 1.3 is over 12 years old... No wonder -5v is rare on the ATX PSU these days. Luck, or just planing, has it that a lot of cheap, low watt PSU's still have the -5v we need where as it's more uncomon on enthusiast, high watt PSU. I'm guessing, but it might just be an artifact of old designs that means the -5v is available, so they provide it, it can also be intentional, knowing that if someone has a older ISA system, and needs a replacement PSU, they aren't going to need a high watt unit, but will go with a low one.

For a real answer i guess someone should ask FSP or someone... As far as i know, FSP have excluded -5v from all their branded PSU's, but still provides OEM PSU's with -5v available, if they ask for it. Seasonic did to, not sure about now?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Loedown

Some modern ATX supplies aren't even coming out with a -5 V rail any more which means a 7905 needs to be connected to the adapter cable with a couple of capacitors.

What does the A2000 use -5V for? The desktop Amigas doesn't have it..

[Loedown]

Originally Posted by demolition

What does the A2000 use -5V for? The desktop Amigas doesn't have it..

Co Pro slot, internal serial, ISA slots, D23 ( video out ), internal video slot.

The A3000 also uses -5V and the A4000 has its own built in 7905 which it uses for the same as the A2000 / A3000

[fitzsteve]

@Jens,

Regarding the ACA500

I'm wondering in there is the possibility for a cheap Ram adapter to be produced that would upgrade the card to 4mb or 8mb Fast Ram.

A lot of people still complain about 2mb not being enough for them to use the card stand alone and don't have the budget to add an ACA1220 or need an 020+

So my though was, is there are price point that makes this economically viable?

[BarryB]

Also, any news on a C64 PSU?

[Schoenfeld]

ACA500 RAM: Not as easy as you might think, because the memory map of the ACA500 is pretty full. Also, the bus for the A1200 accelerator is not meant to be used bi-directional as in the A1200, so the only way to add memory would be the 7MHz bus on the A500 side or the 68000 socket inside the A500.

If you come up with enough orders, I could design something for the 68000 socket. However, I don't really believe that people would spend 60,- EUR on 2MBytes if they can have 128MBytes and more CPU horsepower for 90,- EUR (let alone open the computer!).

Remember the ACA500 is a low-budget design. The only way to make it possible at this price was to make the assumption "the A500 is totally un-modded" - this takes a lot of logic, testing and other effort out of the equation. Look at all the options that the ACA500 offers, and ask someone educated enough to rate the amount of required logic. Or ask if he/she can fit it in 72 macrocells (as used on the ACA500). I bet that the standard answer will be "you'll need the next bigger chip with 144 Macrocells" - which would result in at least 10,- EUR higher sales price.

Originally Posted by BarryB

Also, any news on a C64 PSU?

Prototype works, but case is an issue I want to resolve before it goes into production. However, a C64 PSU wasn't the goal of the development which you don't know about yet - it's a subset that happens to be worthy to be extracted and built as a product on it's own. It's not on high priority.

Jens

[Lord Aga]

Hi Jens,
Are there plans for a quality Amiga PSU in the future ?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

the only way to add memory would be the 7MHz bus on the A500 side or the 68000 socket inside the A500.

So are you saying that memory expansions that sits in the CPU socket can be used or is it only if they are designed in a specific way?
Taking for instance the Kipper2k board:

[dJOS]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Look at all the options that the ACA500 offers, and ask someone educated enough to rate the amount of required logic. Or ask if he/she can fit it in 72 macrocells (as used on the ACA500). I bet that the standard answer will be "you'll need the next bigger chip with 144 Macrocells" - which would result in at least 10,- EUR higher sales price.

Jens

Such modesty Jens, I'm thinking of nominating you for an Amiga knighthood!

Edit: maybe we should call it the "order of the Phoenix" for facilitating the resurrection of so many old Amiga's.

[BarryB]

Originally Posted by dJOS

Such modesty Jens, I'm thinking of nominating you for an Amiga knighthood!

Edit: maybe we should call it the "order of the Phoenix" for facilitating the resurrection of so many old Amiga's.

Now his prices will go up But hopefully not before he release the C64 PSU

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by demolition

So are you saying that memory expansions that sits in the CPU socket can be used or is it only if they are designed in a specific way?

Worth a try - map 2MB to $20.0000 (4MB will not work, because the trapdoor memory expansion will be mapped to $40.0000). Autoconfig will conflict with an A1200 accelerator that also uses autoconfig, and lack of data bus buffers on Kipper's design might also cause trouble, but again, it's worth a try. If it works - good for you. If it doesn't: No product support for that setup.

Jens

[fitzsteve]

Thanks for the info Jens.

There could be a small market for someone like Kipper2k to build a board that gives an extra 2mb for users of a stock ACA500

[dJOS]

Kipper only makes a 4mb or 8mb version ATM, it would be better if Jens had an option on the aca500 config to allow it to work with the 4mb version giving 6mb total.