Flashback: Can't kill the 2 cops in Ian's room!

[Cherno]

I started playing Flashback and got through the Jungle. Now I'm in those sewers or whatever and it's the first time those jetpack cops appear, in the game where Ian has been beat up by them and where you later step into the chair to access your memories.
However, I can't kill those bastards! I go into the room, the door opens, they fire at me once, I get thrown back, and from that point on they can never hit me again even though they fire all the time, but what's worse is that I can't kill them either! My bullets hit but once they are hit they just fly a few seconds, then come down again and it repeats. I wonder if that's a bug or if anyone else had this problem?

[TCD]

I had the same problem with a trained version once. I thought it was the problem of the trainer, but maybe it's a bug with a crack? Which version do you use?

[lilalurl]

Which difficulty are you playing on?

IIRC, on Expert difficulty it takes quite a lot of hits to kill them (10+)

Otherwise, which version are you using (WHDload, crack etc...)

[Cherno]

Yes, I play a cracked version with trainer for unlimited lives although I already found out that the game screws up when the life is lost, the character gets invisible
So I guess I'll just start again with no trainer on
Thanks.
Edit: Normal difficulty, but I suspect even then they won't survive more than 30 hits

[s2325]

B2 - Shoot once, then roll back.  Wait for the two cops to come onto A2, then
	roll again onto B2 but this times roll twice so you are really far in.
	Now turn and shoot the cops as they walk back to this screen.  They 
	will fall off and not be able to return fire!  When Ian gets up from 
	behind you, that means the cops are dead

 A        B        C        D         
             __________________________ 
            |   |             |      | |    
1           |X=_]C______==_________L_]_|       
    ________|##||||||||i##==__|||||||||| 
   |   |  |    |     |    ##  |      
2  |   |  |    |     |    ##  |        
   |   |  _______PPI_]__i_##__|   
   |   |_________    |    ____|         
3  |              ___|Y_f_|||||           
   |_____________##__|||||||||| 
            |||||##|||           
4           |||_E==|||               
            ||||||||||  

X = To Tram          f = fuse
L = Lady             C = checkpoint
I = Ian

[lilalurl]

Maybe those guys were formerly known as Alex Murphy (yeah, both of them)...

Probably a trainer/crack issue indeed.

[TCD]

TCD's guessing what went wrong time: I know the guy who did one trained version and he simply 'NOP'ed the energy reduction routine for the trainer. I guess those guys use the same routine and hence they are immortal too At least that was my conclusion at that time and I also started with savestates and 'honest gaming from the start again

[Retroplay]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

Maybe those guys were formerly known as Alex Murphy (yeah, both of them)...

Dead or alive, you're coming with me.

[lilalurl]

You have 5 seconds to comply! 5,4,3,2,1....


Anyway, I'll hijack this thread to ask if someobody has an explanation for what I think is a bug. It is not Amiga-only because I just checked and it also happens on SNES* and MD.
I don't remember it being mentioned here and a quick search online did not bring any relevant match.

It is very early in level 1. Just after killing the guard near the door that would close/open continuously if you did not take the holocube, you reach a place where you find a stone.



If you keep going left and climb the ledge, you can collect a 10-credit card.



Now crouch and do a roll (I usually do it with the gun taken out, so that I am sure to make the roll) to the right.
You fall and drop dead near an enemy.



The thing is that it should be only a one level drop onto the ground you came from before climbing the ledge. Therefore, you should not die. There is no hole there that would explain why you can fall below.


Am I missing something? Or being too tired? Or is that a bug that the playtesters completely missed out?


Here is a quick video (22 seconds, sorry i forgot to record the sound):
[ Show youtube player ]




*: My mistake, I think I mixed Genesis (US MD) and SNES. In the SNES version the ledge is no longer accessible (even with the automatic run, jump and grab the ledge technique).



Edit: Tested, it also happens in the PC disk version.

[Cherno]

Perhaps it's just that you can roll down one level, but not if you enter a new screen

[lilalurl]

That's an interesting idea but you can do exactly that from the first screen to the screen below (where you grab the holocube).


One interesting thing I noticed though is that the "bug" does not happen if you do the roll starting from the right edge of the ledge. In such a case, you land correctly on the ground below.
But as soon as you are one step further on the left when you start the roll, you fall and die.


Pershaps your assumption is correct when it involves two screens though. Might not be an actual gameplay rule but a way that the game confuses itself.

I'll need to find a similar location to test this hypotesis. Perhaps in Death Tower. Please notify me if during your playthrough you find something like that (ledge that will make you fall below and to the right or left, not only below).

[lilalurl]

A bit of an update + a new "interesting" thing I dicovered after someone replied to my ledge video and I did further testing.

1) The Japanese SNES version (not the MD one though) has probably received some censorship since the mutants in the first level (and the cops in the Earth level (seen through the demo part of the game) have now a greenish skin.

Compare:



The Japanese cops:



2) As I did further testing on the ledge bug:

The ledge area is accessible in the MD European version (Rev A) and US versions. The same bug happens.
In the Japanese MD version the ledge is not accessible (hidden from view, you cannot climb on the ledge and a running jump ends in the wall)
Comparison pictures from the other side of the ledge area (bottom right):





Ugly copy and paste job from the branches from just above I thnk

In all SNES versions the area is not accessible.

In the DOS disk version (French) and CD version, the area is accessible and the bug happens.




If anyone has any of the 3DO, Acorn, CD-i, FM Towns, iPhone or Jaguar version and can check if the ledge is accessible and the bug, I'd be grateful (it takes 2 minutes to test).

Perhaps the Jaguar version works under emulation. I'll check later (as well as the Mega CD version which I have forgotten to test).