Idea for internal PS2 mouse adapter -All Amiga models

[kipper2k]

Hi All,

I was asked by someone if there was a way to have an internal PS2 mouse port set up on an Amiga. I have thought about it and i have a way (i think) to make an easy solder PS2 mouse port that will fit inside ALL Amigas including CD32.

All you would need to do as the end user is do a simple solder job, drill a hole in the case and mount the PS2 connector, meaning that the ps2 mouse plugs directly into the case. All the required circuitry would reside on a small board. If i get the interest i will work on it. Once i start, i don't like to drag it out so would take about 4 weeks to finalise (once i start).

Let me know if you are interested.

[Tumo007]

Hello kipper2k,

I'm interested. I've got a 600, 4000 and a 4000T

Will you use the schematics for the PS2M adapter on Aminet?

Thanks

[hooverphonique]

so this would "reuse" the existing mouse interface, meaning you would need to solder wires to the amiga pcb?

[Retrofan]

Could I use an optical mice? And where the hole should go in an A1200?

And (excuse me) any chance of wireless?

[kipper2k]

No wires to solder, i would design the PCB to "surround" the pins on the underside of the board and the PS2 connector itself could be mounted anywhere you want (dependent on length of cable i decide on)

This would not interfere with regular use of the mouse port if you never plugged anything into the PS2 connector. I would use same mouse schematic as my previous mouse interfaces. an optical ps2 mouse can be used.

I'll have to check clearances too

[mfilos]

It would be great if you wouldn't have to remove the PS2 mouse to connect a second Joystick in mouse port.
Sounds like a great idea mate!

It reminds me my first A600 mod @ 2005 where I modded a Cocolino inside lol (next to mouse port)

[Retrofan]

What about optical mice, does it work?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

What about optical mice, does it work?

Originally Posted by kipper2k

an optical ps2 mouse can be used.

kipper already answered that.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by mfilos

It would be great if you wouldn't have to remove the PS2 mouse to connect a second Joystick in mouse port.
Sounds like a great idea mate!

It reminds me my first A600 mod @ 2005 where I modded a Cocolino inside lol (next to mouse port)

I think you have more toys than me Marios

[delshay]

I said this about 3-4 years a go but, know one seems to care at the time.

Adapter to connect to existing ten pin connector on A1200 motherboard, just add a socket or connect direct to motherboard.

I do believe all A1200 have this soldering pad near mouse/joystick socket.

I for sure will go the other route and fit RF adapter for mouse when I have time.

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

No wires to solder, i would design the PCB to "surround" the pins on the underside of the board and the PS2 connector itself could be mounted anywhere you want (dependent on length of cable i decide on)

This would not interfere with regular use of the mouse port if you never plugged anything into the PS2 connector. I would use same mouse schematic as my previous mouse interfaces. an optical ps2 mouse can be used.

I'll have to check clearances too

I've seen some mod on this forum somewhere where the guy fitted diodes or something to allow you to have joystick connected at same time as PS2 mouse without damaging Amiga. Would def like that.

Also, is it possible or practical to have USB connector for those mice that use PS2 protocol over USB? I know there are adapters but its neater to not have to use them.

One more question - give the high DPI of PC mice these days.. will there be any way to tweak sensitivity so its useable for Amiga?

Anyway, I'm interested.

[pandy71]

Perhaps low speed software USB host will be better nowadays?

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~qx5k-isk...t/usbhost.html

Instead putting lot of effort in outdated PS2 interface?

Also lot of optical sensors provide X-Y quadrature output so they can be directly connected to Amiga without any additional interface.

[Retrofan]

Could it use a wireless mice with somekind of adaptor?

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by delshay

Adapter to connect to existing ten pin connector on A1200 motherboard, just add a socket or connect direct to motherboard.

I do believe all A1200 have this soldering pad near mouse/joystick socket.

well, kipper said that this was for *any* amiga - using the mobo header only works for a1200 (and a600?).

Originally Posted by kipper2k

No wires to solder, i would design the PCB to "surround" the pins on the underside of the board and the PS2 connector itself could be mounted anywhere you want (dependent on length of cable i decide on)

Hmm... curious to know how that would work and how the pcb will be "fastened" to the mobo

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by hooverphonique

well, kipper said that this was for *any* amiga - using the mobo header only works for a1200 (and a600?).


Hmm... curious to know how that would work and how the pcb will be "fastened" to the mobo

It could be made to use an insert for those A1200 mode;s that have the small 10 pin header board, i will look at it.
The fastening to the board is easy, depends on clearance between the lower shield and the bottom of the motherboards. I think worst case scenario would be the dremel, and cutting out a tiny section of the lower shield under the mouseport.

[ws1968]

Very interested (but I think you expected that from me )

Sign me up for at least two

Cheers!

Originally Posted by kipper2k

Hi All,

I was asked by someone if there was a way to have an internal PS2 mouse port set up on an Amiga. I have thought about it and i have a way (i think) to make an easy solder PS2 mouse port that will fit inside ALL Amigas including CD32.

All you would need to do as the end user is do a simple solder job, drill a hole in the case and mount the PS2 connector, meaning that the ps2 mouse plugs directly into the case. All the required circuitry would reside on a small board. If i get the interest i will work on it. Once i start, i don't like to drag it out so would take about 4 weeks to finalise (once i start).

Let me know if you are interested.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

It could be made to use an insert for those A1200 mode;s that have the small 10 pin header board, i will look at it.
The fastening to the board is easy, depends on clearance between the lower shield and the bottom of the motherboards. I think worst case scenario would be the dremel, and cutting out a tiny section of the lower shield under the mouseport.

This all sounds very interesting, but do not forget to ship your other orders as well. You have not responded to my last two mails, but I can see that you are currently active on this forum, so I'm guessing you're not out of town?

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by demolition

This all sounds very interesting, but do not forget to ship your other orders as well. You have not responded to my last two mails, but I can see that you are currently active on this forum, so I'm guessing you're not out of town?

did you put the order through on Amibay? , i am out of town for 3 weeks too doing jury duty so i cant do anything. All paid for orders have been shipped? . I don't see any msgs from you in my pm on here as of 17 Aug?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

did you put the order through on Amibay? , i am out of town for 3 weeks too doing jury duty so i cant do anything. All paid for orders have been shipped? . I don't see any msgs from you in my pm on here as of 17 Aug?

PM sent.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Perhaps low speed software USB host will be better nowadays?

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~qx5k-isk...t/usbhost.html

Instead putting lot of effort in outdated PS2 interface?

Also lot of optical sensors provide X-Y quadrature output so they can be directly connected to Amiga without any additional interface.

I can investigate the usb option too, my chinese is not too good lol. I'm assuming that only generic usb mice would be supported. for the size of the schematic it could be coupled with the PS2. There are a lot of PS2 mice still available so i dont think they are outdated. They still work good

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I can investigate the usb option too, my chinese is not too good lol. I'm assuming that only generic usb mice would be supported. for the size of the schematic it could be coupled with the PS2. There are a lot of PS2 mice still available so i dont think they are outdated. They still work good

Japanese, use google translate, source is with English comments. Why USB not PS2 - IMHO PS2 is pushed out and seems to be easier to buy modern mouse with USB than with PS/2 connector (some USB mouse can work as PS/2 too - they detect PS/2 mode automatically) But anyway USB seems to be more future proof Best regards and thanks for all! btw generic? i think mouse HID compatible probably can be named generic (but similar rule for PS/2 mouse - anything more advance require proprietary drivers anyway)

[Methanoid]

PS2 kit is only getting harder to source. USB makes sense to me and gives end users a much bigger choice in style of mouse.

[kipper2k]

I found someones blog while looking for USB mouse designs. I'll paste it here.

http://jmp.no/blog/atmega8-virtual-usb#comment-537

he has a lot of very interesting and clever projects on the go. Hopefully i could make a PS2 and USB board based on his design

edit: i still say PS2 mice are relatively easy to pick up and do a fine job... mabbe its time for people to buy a few, your Amiga tank mouse won't last forever

[Akira]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

PS2 kit is only getting harder to source. USB makes sense to me and gives end users a much bigger choice in style of mouse.

Your problem could be solved with few pounds
http://amzn.to/OtbpEU

kipper: I am very interested in this adapter, please keep me posted!
Do you think mousewheel could be supported, or mousewheel click as 3rd mouse button?

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by Akira

Your problem is solved with few pounds
http://bit.ly/PPbeDK

kipper: I am very interested in this adapter, please keep me posted!
Do you think mousewheel could be supported, or mousewheel click as 3rd mouse button?

I'm not a software guru,If the code used is public domain then it could easily be improved by people and i would socket the chip so that any software upgrades could be used and people could share code and help each other out

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Akira

Your problem could be solved with few pounds
http://amzn.to/OtbpEU?

One thing to note:
I understand that those adapters only work for USB mice that are aware of the PS/2 protocol. (i.e. They designed the mice with those adapters in mind)
I would think (most??) modern mice wouldn't work with those adapters.

desiv

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by desiv

One thing to note:
I understand that those adapters only work for USB mice that are aware of the PS/2 protocol. (i.e. They designed the mice with those adapters in mind)
I would think (most??) modern mice wouldn't work with those adapters.

desiv

You are correct.. he wasnt.. and this can be seen with some of the USB adapters for sale on eBay... I bought a USB Mouse adapter for Atari ST.. Only works with USB mice that support PS2 protocol.. ie VERY few. Currently in dispute with the seller

[kipper2k]

USB HID compliant mice will work, lets not forget that newer mice require drivers and not all USB mice would be compatible. It's basically trial and error

[demolition]

Originally Posted by desiv

One thing to note:
I understand that those adapters only work for USB mice that are aware of the PS/2 protocol. (i.e. They designed the mice with those adapters in mind)
I would think (most??) modern mice wouldn't work with those adapters.

In my experience, the really cheap mice like the Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse (<€10 ones) do support PS/2 adapters. Also you can buy those mice with USB or PS/2 connectors, but otherwise identical.

The more expensive mice, like the new MX series, will probably not support PS/2.

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

USB HID compliant mice will work, lets not forget that newer mice require drivers and not all USB mice would be compatible. It's basically trial and error

On your adapter maybe... on this "All USB mice" adapter a MS Wheel Mouse Optical (says USB & PS2 on label underneath) does not work - so I think any adapter may well need to have a list of working mice (from common suppliers) to be sure its compatible

[Akira]

Thanks for that desiv. You are indeed right. Actually if you read the link I posted, it mentions something like that. Sorry for the confusion.

However:

Originally Posted by demolition

In my experience, the really cheap mice like the Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse (<€10 ones) do support PS/2 adapters.

Yes, and this is exactly what I have. This mouse is excellent, and would be a perfect replacement for an Amiga mouse. It's actually the ONLY type of mice I buy, Logitech Mouse Man, My First, etc. The simplest ones. And the ones I have came with the PS/2 adapter! So it's a great and cheap option.

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

USB HID compliant mice will work, lets not forget that newer mice require drivers and not all USB mice would be compatible. It's basically trial and error

IMHO Any mouse that work as "generic HID compliant" in Windows should work correctly with this software USB host.

But don't get me wrong Kipper2k - PS/2 is fine too for a mouse replacement.

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

On your adapter maybe... on this "All USB mice" adapter a MS Wheel Mouse Optical (says USB & PS2 on label underneath) does not work - so I think any adapter may well need to have a list of working mice (from common suppliers) to be sure its compatible

as far as I know, *none* of those usb->ps2 mouse adapters actually translate usb to ps2, they are just a connector adapter..

as mentioned earlier, usb mice used with such an adapter *must* support and detect ps2 to work in a ps2 socket, so I don't think a list is needed.

[Methanoid]

Yes, but if the mouse says its supports PS2 protocol you would expect that would be one that should work? No? Anyway, coming back to topic, I'd just like to say I'd like an adapter for Amiga that supports the widest choice of mice

[hooverphonique]

Originally Posted by Methanoid

Yes, but if the mouse says its supports PS2 protocol you would expect that would be one that should work?

Yes I would

[skurk]

Hi guys! I'm Stian, the author of the jmp.no blog, which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

If you guys like, I can help you design this adapter. There are many good ideas mentioned in this thread.

As I said in my replies, the PS/2 support is rock solid but the USB needs some work. I can try to pick things up and see if I can have the bugs corrected soon, the ideal solution would support both.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by skurk

Hi guys! I'm Stian, the author of the jmp.no blog, which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

If you guys like, I can help you design this adapter. There are many good ideas mentioned in this thread.

As I said in my replies, the PS/2 support is rock solid but the USB needs some work. I can try to pick things up and see if I can have the bugs corrected soon, the ideal solution would support both.

Hi Stian,

That would be great, i know a lot of people would want this option or even their own variation. Thanks for your help

[Methanoid]

Great stuff.. co-operation will give us an even better product... Can't wait!

[bobingabout]

This is actually something I did myself fairly recently.
note: although my A1200 has a 10 pin headder for the mouse port, not ALL A1200s do, this was a cost cutting measure to save on PCB board costs, cutting it down by an inch and a half by placing it on a cable rather than having that extra 4 square inchs of PCB with nothing but mostly ground plane and tracks to the mouse port on it. so, earlier motherboard versions have it actually permanantly attached, and some have it on a clip in extra peice of PCB.

Anyway, I made a small PCB that fits inside that expansion bay on the right hand side of the motherboard, which is often utalised for a VGA or DVI port on an internal flicker fixer, or superior graphics card. since the headder is there on ALL versions of the A1200, even if its just the solder holes, this should keep it compatable for all A1200s with enough modification, however, if you're lucky enough to have one of these shorter motherboards, its just a case of removing the existing mouse port, and plugging this in.

I cut off the end of my metal shielding and actually placed mine so that the new joystick 2 port replaces the existing mouse port, with a PS2 port in the expansion bay, actually leaving enough room for a indivision DVI port if I ever were to expand to that, which makes it even more useful



my project seems to work with just about any mouse that can use the "Standard PS2 mouse protocol", so i've had it working with old 2 button PS2 mice, right up to a USB/PS2 hybrid optical.
It utilises a PIC16F84(a) as a main controller, I used someone elses software as a base, and looked up an "Automatic joystick/mouse switch" project too, which utilises a 74LS157(i think) controlled by a 74LS00 as the controller. Then rewrote the PIC software to control the 74LS157 directly.

The result is a fully internal PS2 mouse controller with joystick port (in the same place as the original mouse port) which is automaticly switching. It defaults to Joystick use if no mouse is detected, or mouse use if one is. You press ANY button to switch to that device, which is useful on a mouse, since you can press the middle mouse button, which by default does nothing on the amiga.


I'd be happy to take photos and share all my code with original references if anyone is interested.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much A1200 specific, unless you know of any other amiga's that use an internal 10pin headder that you can simply unplug to disconnect the mouse port.
note: I had to design the board in such a way to be friendly to the limited height of the sloped underside of the floppy disk drive, for the cable that plugs into the original mouse headder is actually on a fixed ribbon, and cannot be unplugged, because a socket was just too high.

Note: if any of these big box amiga's do have a 10 pin headder with disconnectable mouse port, I could quite easily redesign the circuit board so that the controller simply has 3 headders on it, Mouse port to amiga, Joystick port to case, and then a 4/5 pin PS2 port headder, like you used to get on early AT PCs(because then it'd just require one of those backplates.), which can then be mounted wherever insiide your big box amiga case.

[kipper2k]

Hi,

Nice work, pictures would be great. I'm sure a PCB can be designed for all Amigas. Pinouts are identical



slightly off topic, check this thread...

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=66430

Originally Posted by bobingabout

This is actually something I did myself fairly recently.
note: although my A1200 has a 10 pin headder for the mouse port, not ALL A1200s do, this was a cost cutting measure to save on PCB board costs, cutting it down by an inch and a half by placing it on a cable rather than having that extra 4 square inchs of PCB with nothing but mostly ground plane and tracks to the mouse port on it. so, earlier motherboard versions have it actually permanantly attached, and some have it on a clip in extra peice of PCB.

Anyway, I made a small PCB that fits inside that expansion bay on the right hand side of the motherboard, which is often utalised for a VGA or DVI port on an internal flicker fixer, or superior graphics card. since the headder is there on ALL versions of the A1200, even if its just the solder holes, this should keep it compatable for all A1200s with enough modification, however, if you're lucky enough to have one of these shorter motherboards, its just a case of removing the existing mouse port, and plugging this in.

I cut off the end of my metal shielding and actually placed mine so that the new joystick 2 port replaces the existing mouse port, with a PS2 port in the expansion bay, actually leaving enough room for a indivision DVI port if I ever were to expand to that, which makes it even more useful



my project seems to work with just about any mouse that can use the "Standard PS2 mouse protocol", so i've had it working with old 2 button PS2 mice, right up to a USB/PS2 hybrid optical.
It utilises a PIC16F84(a) as a main controller, I used someone elses software as a base, and looked up an "Automatic joystick/mouse switch" project too, which utilises a 74LS157(i think) controlled by a 74LS00 as the controller. Then rewrote the PIC software to control the 74LS157 directly.

The result is a fully internal PS2 mouse controller with joystick port (in the same place as the original mouse port) which is automaticly switching. It defaults to Joystick use if no mouse is detected, or mouse use if one is. You press ANY button to switch to that device, which is useful on a mouse, since you can press the middle mouse button, which by default does nothing on the amiga.


I'd be happy to take photos and share all my code with original references if anyone is interested.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much A1200 specific, unless you know of any other amiga's that use an internal 10pin headder that you can simply unplug to disconnect the mouse port.
note: I had to design the board in such a way to be friendly to the limited height of the sloped underside of the floppy disk drive, for the cable that plugs into the original mouse headder is actually on a fixed ribbon, and cannot be unplugged, because a socket was just too high.

Note: if any of these big box amiga's do have a 10 pin headder with disconnectable mouse port, I could quite easily redesign the circuit board so that the controller simply has 3 headders on it, Mouse port to amiga, Joystick port to case, and then a 4/5 pin PS2 port headder, like you used to get on early AT PCs(because then it'd just require one of those backplates.), which can then be mounted wherever insiide your big box amiga case.