Who were the best developers and where did they come from?

[gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by Jon Hare

The interviews, the images and the music take you back to that moment in time when video games really were the new rock 'n' roll and the British development scene was on top of the world.

I've found this quote here. But is it true?

[lordofchaos]

I would say there is some evidence for this, around the early 80's Britain did dominate alot of the 8-bit market in terms of output, but like all things that go up eventually they must come down, after the Micro market burst in the UK other countries soon caught up and refined their buisness models.

A good source for this period is "Micro Men" from the BBC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y8IkcUGV9w

Some British 80's/90's game developers that deserve an honorable mention:

David Braben/Ian Bell - Elite.
Codemasters - Lots, most famous for Dizzy Series.
Thalamus - Creatures games, Hawkeye, Delta etc.
Psygnosis - Beast Games, Lemmings, Armour Geddon(s)....
Sensible Software - Wizball, Cannon Fodder, Sensi Soccer...
Team 17 - Worms, Alien Breed, Project X etc
Core Design - Chuck Rock games, Banshee, Darkmere...
Bitmap Brothers - Chaos Engine, Speedball(s), Gods...
Gremlin Graphics - Zool(s), Lotus Series, Disposable Hero..

[s2325]

Codemasters made one bad game - Championship Jet Ski Simulator for Amstrad CPC: http://cpcrulez.fr/GamesTest/champio..._simulator.htm There are invisible single pixel size barriers and you can stuck with other player under bridge forever.

[CodyJarrett]

Also Graftgold, Bullfrog, Tony Crowther, Archer MacLean, Mike Singleton...

[Mrs Beanbag]

Not British, but I've never seen a bad Factor 5 game.

[JudasEZT]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

Not British, but I've never seen a bad Factor 5 game.

Thats what I was going to tell..

British scene were the best,.. but all of them got astonished with Factor 5,.. and specially with Turrican 2. Andrew Braybrook got really impressed, and Braybrook was someone.

Infact Im really surprised that with all the dozens of British companies no one came with something like Apydia.

Marketing made Amiga games unfocused.

[clauddio]

Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag

Not British, but I've never seen a bad Factor 5 game.

Factor 5 were the best amiga' games developers by far

[Predseda]

I say Bitmap Brothers. And so the flamewar was born...

[Sektor 83]

My favourites were: Factor 5, Psygnosis, Core Design, Gremlin Graphics and Team 17... in no special order!

[Dastardly]

Originally Posted by Predseda

I say Bitmap Brothers. And so the flamewar was born...

Of course it depends on how you define "best", but I have to agree

[moijk]

While I think the UK scene were pretty much the major one in europe, how did it fare in other markets - like USA and Japan?

[Mrs Beanbag]

Was there much of an Amiga market in Japan? Most of the European games still seemed designed for NTSC screen sizes, so I guess there was an intention to export across the Atlantic.

The Bitmap Brothers were a good cross-platform developer, but they never really pushed the Amiga to its limits for the sake of the Atari ST version, which is a shame. Still, Xenon II is one of my all-time favourite games. Xenon I on the other hand... I think we can see their output gradually improve in quality over the years.

Psygnosis's output was very inconsistent, however. Some games were technically excellent (if a tad on the difficult/frustrating side), others were a little of an embarrassment. I mentioned Blood Money elsewhere, a way over-hyped game in my opinion, especially cringeworthy in the presentation (the bit of the intro with the spaceship flying through the asteroids was the best bit, they should have made the whole game like that, but the opening credits with the sampled speech sounded like it was done in someone amateur's back bedroom for a PD game, and the "cram loads of vocal samples in" style of the music). Although I must admit I have something of a soft spot for Menace, maybe because it was one of the first games my Dad bought for the Amiga.

[Photon]

I would say Germany, Denmark and Sweden reached the highest technical quality among the developers active during the Amiga game boom. However, a good developer can also be one that makes a fun and well play-tested game. In that department I would say the UK rules supreme by the sheer number of decent technical quality developers who actually had it as a profession, many of them coming from 8-bit. USA was sadly absent from 1989 onwards, already having moved on to PC and consoles, or I should say moved on from home computers. I think I have two games made in the USA that I play, Zany Golf and F/A-18 Interceptor, and ... that's it.

If you want namedropping from the UK developers I would say the already famous names: David Braben, Andrew Braybrook, Archer Maclean, John M. Phillips, Geoff Crammond (off the top of my head). Of these, Braybrook made the most quality Amiga games, with Braben and Crammond following, with Braben and Braybrook staying loyal to the Amiga after 1992 unlike basically all other UK developers.

Remember that the buzz we enjoy from the good old times can be present-day buzz. No Amiga magazines and no hype campaigns from wealthy game companies today, but if you really want to you can be an internet detective and find out who's working on what. If the interest in the developers is there, it can yet become enjoyable and intriguing "buzz".

[Predseda]

In fact I adored Graftgold most for their programming perfection. I dont like Fire and Ice or Virocop much, but they still are programmed brillantly. Paradroid 90and Rainbow Islands are excellent and Uridium 2 is just a masterpiece. So shame there were so few games from Graftgold for Amiga

[desiv]

Where was Discovery Software from?
Hybris and Battle Squadron were pretty great... IMHO

desiv

[gilgamesh]

I googled that for you.

Discovery Software was only the publisher. Both games were done by Denmark's Martin Pedersen and Torben Larsen of Cope-Com.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

I googled that for you.

Discovery Software was only the publisher. Both games were done by Denmark's Martin Pedersen and Torben Larsen of Cope-Com.

Dang it! ;-) Thanx
I googled it quickly, but didn't go far enough.. Stopped at Discovery..

So, Denmark it is...
I seem to remember (hazily) some other developers from Denmark...
And those above games were top notch...

So, the UK rocks, but you have some competition!! :-)

desiv

[kamelito]

No the French were the best
Eric Chahi, Paul Cuisset, Pierre Adane, Fernando Velez, Frederic Raynal (maybe not on AMIGA), Yves Grolet, Francois Lionet...
Kamelito

[dlfrsilver]

Pierre Adane was a serious king coder. A very talented guy and a kind of amiga guru guy

Thierry Levastre and Philippe Dessoly (in particular him) got diplomed of Beaux-Arts Academy ; Philippe is even a prom major from the said academy. He was by the way the only guy autorised by go nagai himself to draw Grendizer (Goldorak robot in french) character and even moldering die cast figurines, as well as Leiji's matsumoto's Captain Harlock character.

Paul cuisset and all the guys at delphine were some of the most awesome guys of the industry, heh flashback was amiga first, and it sold to so many copies

[TCD]

This one: http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_ref_artist=385 ?

[dlfrsilver]

indeed, Pierre was one of coding god back in the day.

[TCD]

Must have missed something there then From the list of games on HOL I can't really tell if he's a coding god tbh.

[Codetapper]

Pierre Adane made 2 pretty much arcade perfect conversions in Pang and Snow Bros, and that elevates him to a coding god in my mind!

He also co-wrote Ilyad and did a little (hard to know exactly what) on Plotting. Clearly he was incredibly good at duplicating a game presented to him with Amiga specifics in mind. No ST-port-itis here!

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by clauddio

Factor 5 were the best amiga' games developers by far

Probably true, but they were weak in game design. You can see it in their later console games which weren't ports. And of course a question of genres, e.g. Ambermoon by Thalion is unmatched in the RPG genre.

[TCD]

Cheers for clearing that bit for me Codetapper

[fishyfish]

Katakis wasnt very good on the Amiga. Presentation was okay, and it moved smoothly enough, but the game itself was vaaaastly inferior to the c64 game of the same name. Graphics were also pretty ugly (looks pretty st-ish).
Thankfully (for my tastes) they did a pretty decent job on R-Type itself.

Bitmap Brothers were quite good, albiet mostly multiformat as mentioned, but they released Ruff 'n Tumble, so I cant help but like them

[JudasEZT]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

Bitmap Brothers were quite good, albiet mostly multiformat as mentioned, but they released Ruff 'n Tumble, so I cant help but like them

Ruff'n'Tumble were released by Renegade.. but developers instead of BitmapB were JasonPerkins and RobinLevy ( teamed up as Wunderkid if I recall correctly. )

Renegade was cool for last commercial gaming years of Amiga.

[Photon]

That explains that. *ducks*

[trydowave]

1: Factor Five
2: Ocean France
3: Bitmap Brothers
4: Gremlin

Ocean UK = Bad
Team 17 = Glossy but overated
Psygnosis - nearly on the top list next to gremlin.
The worst offender: Tiertex

Even though they had less output I have to mention Housemarque, Thalion Software and Digital Illusions.

I can't remember if Probe we're any good. They made Golden Axe and Outrun Europa which I really liked but I think they created the abomination that was Turtles the Arcade game. Possibly the worst conversion in gaming history.

Gotta be careful here and not confuse Game publishers with Game developers. Even that tower of Sh!t US Gold released one good game (Shadow Dancer!)

The worst offender: Teirtex (That needed saying twice )

[Predseda]

I am surprised nobody mentioned DMA Design yet, who brought us Lemmings madness and also Hired guns. On the other hand, their other games weren't so brilliant.

Not to forget Reflectios and Silmarils. They created some real gems. Beast trilogy and Ishar quadralogy is something that is just awesome. And somebody could also bring up Bullfrog.

DMA design is british, as well as Reflections and Bullfrog. Silmarils were french.

[Oldskool Bitz]

System 3 anyone?

The best games came out of Britain, Germany and France as far as I'm concerned...

[Mrs Beanbag]

Novagen. I thought Damocles and Mercenary III were excellent. Here's still hoping for Mercenary IV...

[vitux]

In the 8 bits the Spanish were the best and most productive with the British-(Dinamic Software, Opera soft, Ziggurat, Topo Soft etc) in the 8-16 bits I want to remind Hewson call after 21st Century Entertainment.

[SyX]

Originally Posted by vitux

In the 8 bits the Spanish were the best and most productive with the British-(Dinamic Software, Opera soft, Ziggurat, Topo Soft etc) ...

Sorry fellow countryman, but not for telling a lie thousands of times, it will become truth

Japan, Usa, France or Germany were much more productive during the 8 bits. And with respect to the quality, better don't say a word

[vitux]

Originally Posted by SyX

Sorry fellow countryman, but not for telling a lie thousands of times, it will become truth

Japan, Usa, France or Germany were much more productive during the 8 bits. And with respect to the quality, better don't say a word

This thread was wondering your opinion. I'm just opining what I think, I'm not lying
I was referring mainly to the European market and the Spectrum, Amstrad, C64
Japan was mainly in the Japanese market with the MSX
USA in the American with the Atari 8bits
Had not quality? there were more good than bad quality. I remember a few: La Pulga, Sir Fred, Camelot Warriors, Game Over, Army Moves, The Abbey of Crime, Mad Mix ...
Do you remember many German or French titles for 8 bits? Conversions to 8 bits of Infogrames made ​​them a Spanish company- (New Frontier)
So you are a "fellow countryman"? I think you are rather a reflection of what this country is centuries ago.
I do not see that others throw stones on its roof.

[Astrofra]

Good 8bits titles made in France ? Oh oui
MGT, Bactron, Get Dexter, Sapiens (5000 BC?), Infernal Runner (Eric Chahi), Crazy Cars, Macadam Bumper, Bubble Ghost, Captain Blood ...



Besides, on the Amiga side, my favorites were probably DMA Design who really allowed Psygnosis to climb to a higher level

[fishyfish]

Sorry, but Ive never understood the obsession some people have with someone's nationality. Patriotism is an evil concept that only serves to promote separation. Peoples nationality is dictated by where their parents f@cked, nothing more. No harm in a person liking where they live, or having pride in their town, but beyond that its just a subtle form of (usually misguided) racism in my opinion. Excuse the slightly crude nature of the expression of this sentiment, but it works better this way.

Now that said, the basic idea Ive expressed above also carries across to this thread.
There's good games and bad games made all over the world. Different machines were more prominent in different countries, and typically this is where the best games (and probably worst) for "machine X" are developed.
Occasionally a particular group will be good developers for a certain machine, but this says nothing other than the fact theyre a good development team, who could be from anywhere. What they develop speaks only of the individuals abilities and nothing of their nationality.

[SyX]

Originally Posted by vitux

This thread was wondering your opinion. I'm just opining what I think, I'm not lying

Well, then we can say, that you don't lie, but you don't have a lot of idea.

Originally Posted by vitux

Japan was mainly in the Japanese market with the MSX

Japan was much more than MSX in 8 bit computers.

Originally Posted by vitux

USA in the American with the Atari 8bits

USA was more C64 than Atari 8 bits.

Originally Posted by vitux

Had not quality? there were more good than bad quality. I remember a few: La Pulga, Sir Fred, Camelot Warriors, Game Over, Army Moves, The Abbey of Crime, Mad Mix ...

More good than bad, that is your opinion, my opinion as CPC user is not great, and better don't ask to people with C64 or MSX about the quality of the most part of spanish games.

Originally Posted by vitux

Do you remember many German or French titles for 8 bits?

Of course, Turrican I & II, Bactron, Billy I & II, Renaud, Spherical, Katakis, Zombi, Birdie, Captain Blood, Bobo, Bumpy, Infernal Runner, Skweek I & II, Crafton & Xunk I & II, BAT, ... we can follow during hours, if you like.

Originally Posted by vitux

Conversions to 8 bits of Infogrames made ​​them a Spanish company- (New Frontier)

Sorry, France was a CPC country, New Frontier only made ZX ports of CPC games, and only the last few games of Infogrames were converted for them to CPC, too. And i know personally to people of New Frontier and i love their 8 bits productions, although when they appeared, i was already an Amiga user, and never enjoyed them until the emulation days.

Originally Posted by vitux

So you are a "fellow countryman"? I think you are rather a reflection of what this country is centuries ago.
I do not see that others throw stones on its roof.

Wrong again, i love Spain and spanish games (nowdays is the real spanish videogame golden age, not the 80s), but i'm an adult with judgement, and i'm not going to defend a shit game as Score 3020 or Explorer XXI because is an spanish game.

It's the attitude that everything is great, what it's hurting our country since ever.

PD: You can find me this weekend in Retro Madrid defending the spanish software and buying books and new software and we can have a nice talk.

[lordofchaos]

Originally Posted by fishyfish

Sorry, but Ive never understood the obsession some people have with someone's nationality. Patriotism is an evil concept that only serves to promote separation.

I can see where your coming from with this Fishyfish, I'm not particularly interested which country produced so called superior or more succesful software but it I find the thread intresting all the same, I would be lying if I said I didn't feel some sense of pride from my country of birth but to paraphrase the great bill hicks when asked if he was proud to be American, "Well my parents fucked here, I did'nt have a whole lot to do with it!".

[TCD]

It's sad that some German (text)adventures for the Amiga never got an English translation. For me (even if it's a niche) games like Jonathan, Stadt Der Löwen or Hexuma really gave a dying genre a nice farewell. All those games showed how much love for details you can put into a game. I'm not saying these are the best developers, but they should get an 'honourable mention' here at least