Found broken floppies of these (Part 2)

[dirkies]

as already mention in another game REQ thread, my kryoflux has been doing overtime during these hot summernights after finding in the basement 2 forgotten floppy boxes under pile of dust; and still some left in irrecoverable bit rot state
these disks cannot to be found in TOSEC or in collections I downloaded, so will try here

The 2 screenshots come from floppies which could at least be recovered in a bootable state but fail right after

Alibi Demo Comp 5
Alibi Hardcore Disk
Amiga 500 - The Very First - English Version PN: 380921-02 14.07.87 >provided by Prowler!
BSA Demo Disk 11
BSA Demo Disk 13
BSA Demo Disk 15
BSA Demo Disk 18
BSA Demo Disk 2
BSA Demo Disk 9
BSA Picture Disk 3
BSA Picture Disk 4 >recovered after many retries >thanks to Kryoflux
Demo Disk #8 (by Black Label)


Fairlight Horror Show
Honey Slide #4
Jean Michel Jarre Slide
JHK DigiMovie
MFC Demo Disk #24
Mr Rubik Demos #3
Music Collection Nr. 1 (1989-03-02)(C.C.S.) >recovered from original floppy by Prowler!


Shadow'n Light Concert Preview
Space Photos Set I
The Band Jukebox 1
Space Photos

[StingRay]

Interesting demos. Can you upload the CCS music collection? Might be that it just needs Kick 1.2 as most older CCS stuff.

[dirkies]

the CCS floppy is knackered, it does load the menu but other than that tracks 71,73>77 and 79 are bad.

[dirkies]

it upped it in the zone, some music will give a checksum error

[StingRay]

Ah, too bad. But thanks for uploading!

[s2325]

If I remember right in WinUAE it's possible to skip some errors with floppy drive set to turbo. I don't know how it's done but I remember some demo packs were watchable after that.

[prowler]

Hi dirkies,

For comparison with the dump I am able to make, I have downloaded your .ADF in The Zone of the CCS Music Collection 1 disk you have sent me, thanks.

Could you upload your .ADF of the Black Label Demo Disk 8 you have sent me, too, please?

[dirkies]

same msg as in other thread:
the ADFs were actually taken from the 3.5" floppies which were included in the package, so you can kryoflux those and compare. You also now have the list of the tracks that were copied OK off the 5.25" disk to the 3.5" disk, so assuming the 3.5" floppies are still ok, you should just focus with kryoflux on the few tracks that I could not read out ok on the 5.25" floppy about 10 years ago on real amiga hardware.
The CCS disk in the zone was kryofluxed from the 3.5" floppy but I believe there were more errors on it that originally on the 5.25" disk! I guess time has taken some bit-rot toll on the 3.5" floppy aswell

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

the ADFs were actually taken from the 3.5" floppies which were included in the package, so you can kryoflux those and compare.

If you still have the ADF you took from the Black Label Demo Disk 8, could you upload it for me anyway, please?

The image I have dumped from the 3½-inch version of the CCS Music collection disk is different to yours down at the single bit level in several places and in large chunks of data in others. I have attached a copy of it below so you and everyone else can see what I mean.

Originally Posted by dirkies

The CCS disk in the zone was kryofluxed from the 3.5" floppy but I believe there were more errors on it than originally on the 5.25" disk! I guess time has taken some bit-rot toll on the 3.5" floppy aswell

Actually, I have to tell you that I am pleasantly surprised by how well these disks have survived the last ten years. I believe that my dump of the CCS Music collection disk will, in fact, be better than yours when I check it with DiskMonTools in WinUAE.

Even if my dump turns out to be worse than yours, The differences between your dump and mine may pinpoint flaky data on the original disks, which will simplify considerably the process of repairing bad sectors by editing the data in the disk image to match the checksums.

So please give me all the information you can concerning the other disks. Thankyou.

[dirkies]

see my mail in the other thread, the CCS 3.5" floppy should only be used if you have trouble recovering tracks from the 5.25" floppy. 10 years ago I could copy over from the 5.25" most tracks to this 3.5" floppy, except those noted on the 5.25 sleeve.
But since then it seems the 3.5" floppy also start to die, so I think it is best to start with the 5.25 version and see how much good tracks you can dump of it. Esp the last ones are hard to readout ok!

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

the CCS 3.5" floppy should only be used if you have trouble recovering tracks from the 5.25" floppy. 10 years ago I could copy over from the 5.25" most tracks to this 3.5" floppy, except those noted on the 5.25 sleeve.

I disagree. Recovering old floppy disks very often involves maximum likelihood guesswork and, when it comes down to that, you need all the information you can get.

Those 3½-inch floppies are almost complete copies of the 5¼-inch disks you now wish to recover, and the copies were made 10 years ago when the original disks might well have been in much better shape than they are today.

In my experience, 5¼-inch floppies are generally better able to retain their data over time than 3½-inch disks if stored carefully. Maybe this is because the larger disks store the data less densely. However, 3½-inch floppy disks are much better protected by their enclosures than are 5¼-inch disks in their flimsy sleeves, so there are situations where the 3½-inch disks will be found to have performed the better. Consequently, nothing can be taken for granted.

Originally Posted by dirkies

But since then it seems the 3.5" floppy also start to die, so I think it is best to start with the 5.25 version and see how much good tracks you can dump of it. Esp the last ones are hard to readout ok!

The evidence that these 3½-inch disks have 'started to die' must have been 'lost in transit'. Indeed, I have already said that I am very pleased with the way these disks have survived. I chose to start with them simply because the equipment I am using (Catweasel MK4) was already set up for 3½-inch media in connection with other projects I am currently working on.

If it turns out that the 5¼-inch disks perform as expected, then the data I have already recovered from the 3½-inch set will improve the level of confidence in the final disk images. If you still had the all ADF images you took from these disks 10 years ago, then they might have improved it still further.

As I had thought, my CCS Music collection Nr 1 [WIP1] disk image fixes many of the bad sectors in the image you took 10 years ago.

Having spent most of today working in the gardens, I am hoping to make a start on the 5¼-inch floppies tomorrow.

[dirkies]

good to know, just remember the tracknumbers written down on the sleeve of the 5.25" are broken on the 3.5" aswell, so although on the 3.5" these tracks may read "fine", their actual contents is rubbish as it is a partial copy of the 5.25" broken tracks, 10 years ago I used RattleCopy4 for the transfer. Remember, the 5.25" contains the "master image", the 3.5" discs are just partial copy attempts from the master images.
Keep us posted on your progress!

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

good to know, just remember the tracknumbers written down on the sleeve of the 5.25" are broken on the 3.5" aswell, so although on the 3.5" these tracks may read "fine", their actual contents is rubbish as it is a partial copy of the 5.25" broken tracks, 10 years ago I used RattleCopy4 for the transfer. Remember, the 5.25" contains the "master image", the 3.5" discs are just partial copy attempts from the master images.

Yes, I'm aware that some of the content of the 3½-inch disks in the broken tracks is rubbish, but valid checksums here indicate that a significant number of blocks have been copied intact.

BTW, what are the "POW-STYX.dms", "BS1 crack", "broken ADF on the scoopex ISO just missing the bootblock" and "BS1 bootblock" mentioned in the other thread? Could you at least share those with me?

[dirkies]

all 160 tracks, other than the ones mentioned on the sleeve of the 5.25" disk, were copied OK to their respective 3.5" disk about 10 years ago. The big majority was copied fine, only a few tracks I could never read out ok from the 5.25" on amiga hardware 10 years ago, and since the BS1 crack of powerstyx uses some NDOS MFM format, it was even impossible to figure out if the tracks could be copied ok or not, so that is the reason there is no 3.5" floppy with Powerstyx.

I will dig up the broken powerstyx dms file from those ISOs and put it in the zone. the BS1 bootblock is on the 5.25" floppy I sent you

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

all 160 tracks, other than the ones mentioned on the sleeve of the 5.25" disk, were copied OK to their respective 3.5" disk about 10 years ago. The big majority was copied fine, only a few tracks I could never read out ok from the 5.25" on amiga hardware 10 years ago, and since the BS1 crack of powerstyx uses some NDOS MFM format, it was even impossible to figure out if the tracks could be copied ok or not, so that is the reason there is no 3.5" floppy with Powerstyx.

Yes, and that's the reason why it will require PowerCopy or KryoFlux raw dumps to compile a valid image of it.

Originally Posted by dirkies

I will dig up the broken powerstyx dms file from those ISOs and put it in the zone. the BS1 bootblock is on the 5.25" floppy I sent you

Thanks! That will at least give me something to refer to when dumping the Powerstyx disk, and I don't think I'm going to need special tools to grab the bootblock(s) from it.

[dirkies]

if kryoflux can read MFM tracks (I believe sync 4489) it should be fine to read tracks. After all you can read individual tracks one by one and once you have all individual OK read tracks, you can "stitch" them back together by writing them to the same floppy one by one.

[prowler]

That's the way I would prefer to do it.

[dirkies]

I am really curious how the recovery process goes, how many tracks can be read ok off the 5.25" floppies without too much hassle, and which tracks will need some extra care before they can be recovered.

[prowler]

When I am conducting a salvage operation - whether from a broken archive or disk - I keep a record of every detail of the process for myself and usually post an edited version in the appropriate thread if there is sufficient interest.

If you don't think there is sufficient detail in what I am posting here when I start getting some results, then just let me know. I keep a record of everything.

I have not yet finished documenting all the discrepancies between my dump of the CCS Music Collection Nr 1 disk and yours, but I will post the details here when I have.

As far as the dumping of the 3½-inch disks went yesterday, the CCS Music collection Nr 1 disk and Black Label Demo Disk 8 copied out with no bad sectors.

BS1&TKT Sounddisk 1 tracks 77,0, 78,1, 79,0 and 79,1 (offsets $D3C00-$D51FF and $D7E00-$DBFFF, or Disk Blocks 1694-1704 and 1727-1759 in the disk image) are unreadable and zeroed out.

War Tools v3 tracks 76,1, 77,1, 78,1 and 79,1 (offsets $D2600-$D3BFF, $D5200-$D67FF, $D7E00-$D93FF and $DAA00-$DBFFF, or Disk Blocks 1683-1693, 1705-1715, 1727-1737 and 1749-1759 in the disk image) are unreadable and zeroed out.

There is no point in uploading these images until they are as good as I can get them. The reasons I uploaded my first attempt at the CCS Music collection disk yesterday were because it was significantly better than what you had previously uploaded, and StingRay had indicated his interest in this disk too.

[prowler]

Earlier today I successfully dumped the 5¼-inch CCS Music collection Nr 1, War Tools v3 and BS1&TKT Sounddisk 1 disks to ADFs using a Mitsubishi MF504C-310MG high density drive attached to my Catweasel MK4.

It only remains to assemble the various dumps into valid disk images and I can upload them.

The Black Label Demo Disk 8 dump still has thirteen bad sectors, but I am expecting to be able to fix them by using other drive units.

Also, I have dumped Track 0,0 of the Powerstyx+ 100% disk. The other tracks were unreadable using Catweasel, but that's given me the boot sectors to try with the Powerstyx DMS file when I have it.

[dirkies]

added that broken Powerstyx from Phoenix ISOs here (POW-STYX.DMS)
ftp://ftp.magix.ws/~Public_User_Uploads/dirkies/

remember the BS1 disk is an MFM disk that normally required nibble mode to copy on a normal Amiga.

[prowler]

Thanks for the POW-STYX.DMS file.

I have uploaded a valid CCS Music collection Nr 1.adf dumped from the 5¼-inch disk to The Zone for you.

I have got the bad sector count on the Black Label Demo Disk 8.adf down to twelve by trying it in some other drives. I think the remainder will need to be recovered with KryoFlux; they are very persistent.

[dirkies]

yeah, another one saved, thanks dude!

Now get that kryoflux up & running

[prowler]

Originally Posted by prowler

I have got the bad sector count on the Black Label Demo Disk 8.adf down to twelve by trying it in some other drives. I think the remainder will need to be recovered with KryoFlux; they are very persistent.

I selected the disk drive which gave the least bad sectors on the Catweasel and hooked it up to the KryoFlux, but I couldn't get the bad sector count down any further.

None of the remaining bad sectors is unreadable, but most are badly corrupted. This disk is going to be very difficult to recover fully.

[dirkies]

Originally Posted by prowler

I selected the disk drive which gave the least bad sectors on the Catweasel and hooked it up to the KryoFlux, but I couldn't get the bad sector count down any further.

None of the remaining bad sectors is unreadable, but most are badly corrupted. This disk is going to be very difficult to recover fully.

That's OK Prowler, but maybe with other drives and my 3.5 "backup" it may be possible to restitch/ressurect this disk, it's an oldskool collectible!
So in other words, why not try harder?

[Asle]

We would welcome it, indeed.
Also, thanks to you both, the CCS musicdisk is now complete.

Cheers
Sylvain

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

That's OK Prowler, but maybe with other drives and my 3.5 "backup" it may be possible to restitch/ressurect this disk, it's an oldskool collectible!
So in other words, why not try harder?

All except three of those bad sectors are even worse on your "backup" disk.

Don't worry, I've still got a few tricks up my sleeve, but this one will be a tough nut to crack.

In fact, I had tried only one of the remaining three 5¼-inch drives before getting the KryoFlux set up for the PowerStyx disk. (More about that in the other thread.)

Just because that particular drive gave the best result so far with the Catweasel, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will perform better than all the others on the KryoFlux.

In fact, the unique characteristics of each disk drive give significant variations in performance with different controllers, so that it may even still be possible to recover some of these bad sectors on a PC running ReadADF or the Registered version of Disk2FDI!

[dirkies]

Originally Posted by prowler

All except three of those bad sectors are even worse on your "backup" disk.

Don't worry, I've still got a few tricks up my sleeve, but this one will be a tough nut to crack.

In fact, I had tried only one of the remaining three 5¼-inch drives before getting the KryoFlux set up for the PowerStyx disk. (More about that in the other thread.)

Just because that particular drive gave the best result so far with the Catweasel, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will perform better than all the others on the KryoFlux.

In fact, the unique characteristics of each disk drive give significant variations in performance with different controllers, so that it may even still be possible to recover some of these bad sectors on a PC running ReadADF or the Registered version of Disk2FDI!

Prowler, you're a star already IMHO, the more you can recover, the more my nostalgia-stamina improves
Keep keeping up the good work for me and the nostalgic old-fart community

[prowler]

I have discovered why the Black Label Demo Disk 8 is proving to be so difficult to recover.

There is a stain on the lower side (Head 0) of the disk recording surface approximately 8mm in diameter and centred 15mm from the outer edge of the aperture, i.e. of suitable size and position to have been causing bad sectors in the range of tracks 22-43 on the lower side of the disk noted on the sleeve ten years ago.

Cleaning with isopropyl alcohol applied with a cotton bud reveals that the contaminant has caused some permanent damage to the recording surface - mainly in the central 3mm diameter region and, to a lesser extent, at the circumference.

The disk is none the worse for having been cleaned, but neither is it any better.

Under the circumstances, it is very unlikely that I will be able to salvage the remaining data from this disk.

The best way forward now is for me to discover which files are damaged and list the details here in an attempt to find duplicates with which to repair the disk image, and this I will do tomorrow.

[prowler]

I've just noticed this:

Originally Posted by dirkies

Amiga Multitasking Demo (Commodore) in English < maybe someone knows the exact name? Prowler?

I have only the German version (not the original disk; I downloaded it).

The disk image is Multitasking-Demo.adf, but the volume name is copy2 of CLI10.

CBM OS1.2/1.3 Multitasking Demo from 1985 (German)

Bootable multitasking presentation disk. (Press Return, F1, F2 or F3 when prompted.)

It starts off with an older man sitting behind a desk hanging on the telephone. Later, you see "Fred the Baker" playing with his yo-yo while he waits for his PC to finish one task before starting the next, and "Rose Thornbush" with her multitasking Amiga running one task in the background while she's getting on with the next...

Edit: Is this similar to the one you're seeking?

[dirkies]

bad news for the black label disk
and yes, the multitasking demo is the one I remember, mine was in English and also saw a Dutch one, but German is fine for now too Can't believe this is not in TOSEC

[prowler]

Originally Posted by dirkies

yes, the multitasking demo is the one I remember, mine was in English and also saw a Dutch one, but German is fine for now too Can't believe this is not in TOSEC

It's in The Zone for you.

Originally Posted by dirkies

bad news for the black label disk

It's not over yet.

The disk has 12, as yet, unrecoverable bad sectors caused, presumably, by lasting damage resulting from that stain which I have now removed.

While I think it may still be possible for me to salvage something from this disk by other means I'll continue working on it.

In the meantime I have reconstructed the bad sector headers, replaced the bad data with "BAD!..." strings and recalculated the checksums, so that all files now copy out of the disk image without errors, but there are five bad files: 5 (3 bad sectors), 1 (1 bad sector), 3 (3 bad sectors), 7 (1 bad sector) and 4 (4 bad sectors). This is the best you'll get for now.

I'll attach this image here until I have something better with which to replace it.

[Asle]

ACF demo is here (file 7).

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Asle

ACF demo is here (file 7).

Thanks, mate! Indeed, that file is of the correct size.

If that is a valid copy of the 7 file, then that will fix one of the bad sectors (Disk Block 729).

I have reconstructed some of the missing data today by comparing captures I have made so far of the bad sectors to separate valid data from the corrupted, but I have not yet made any progress on Disk Block 729, so that will be of great help.

Edit1: Here is a listing of the root directory of the Black Label Demo Disk 8 to help find good copies of the damaged files, which are identified in bold red type.

Directory "df0:"
.fastdir                    1180 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:18:15
DemoAction.ROTACT            540 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:10
DemoObject.ROTOBJ            824 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:12
Em.ROTOBJ                    440 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:13
RobotHead.ROTOBJ            1136 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:13
4                          58052 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:32
c                            Dir ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:20:58
ShakeHead.ROTACT             348 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:45
tetrahedron.ROTOBJ           168 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:47
Tube.ROTOBJ                  776 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:49
TubeRoll.ROTACT              716 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:52
Tumble.ROTACT                440 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:56
Twirl.ROTACT                 720 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:58
Yrotation.ROTACT             348 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:22:00
3                          26908 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:25:10
d                            710 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:19:12
1                          19980 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:28:59
libs                         Dir ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:17:58
6                           7504 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:20:24
glider.s                     339 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:25:14
platte.s                     189 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:25:16
2                           3220 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:32:01
pyramide.s                    83 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:25:20
5                          71808 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:36:26
Devs                         Dir ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:16:55
HellDat2                  128072 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:21:09
7                         176048 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:18:07
8                          71948 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:29:54
9                           4000 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:22:39
a                           2084 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:22:44
b                         167244 ----rwed 07-Mar-87 02:23:42
S                            Dir ----rwed 04-Mar-87 03:31:32
.info                         16 ----rwed 13-Jun-87 21:46:32
29 files - 4 directories - 1510 blocks used

Edit2: I have found the Prophets-GuruMastersIntro here (File 5?).

Edit3: Yes, that's the right one! Another three bad sectors fixed!

I'll upload an updated disk image tomorrow.

[prowler]

Thanks to Asle and his website, I have been able to fix four bad sectors on Black Label Demo Disk 8 by importing ACF-FutureIntro09 and Prophets-GuruMastersIntro to replace the damaged files 7 and 5, respectively.

Disk Blocks 574, 604, 623 and 729 are now fixed, and there are now just 8 bad sectors in the attached disk image.

In the meantime, the search for valid files to replace the damaged ones continues, as does my effort to salvage the bad data blocks...

[prowler]

Earlier this evening, I fixed Disk Block 797 by comparing a good capture of it with two other good captures and making selected changes until the original checksum was matched.

This would now appear to be the only method left open to me to fix the remaining bad sectors on this disk, so I will continue with it, when I have time, until either it is fixed or it looks hopeless.

Disk Block 797 is the third of four bad sectors in the 4 file. I'm fairly confident that the result is good, but it will not be possible to check it until the whole file is fixed.

I have a very good capture of Disk Block 845, which is the first bad sector in the 4 file, but, as yet no other closely matching capture to compare it with.

I also have two very closely matching good captures of Disk Block 815 (the second bad sector in the 4 file), but there are insufficient differences between them to make a fix possible, so more captures are needed.

Disk Block 778 is both the 4 file's last bad sector and EOF. I have recovered only about half this block so far.

The other bad sectors are in a much worse state, but there's still hope. After all, the fewer the bad sectors remaining, the easier it gets by being more focussed... and now there are only seven!

[prowler]

Once again, earlier this evening, I fixed another bad sector.

This time it was Disk Block 845, by making a 1-bit change after comparing the very good capture I mentioned yesterday with another I conjured up today.

Six to go now!

[dirkies]

woohoo, this starts to read like an addictive detective story

Keep trying Prowler, I am sure this will result in some near perfect restoration project

[prowler]

I couldn't rest with Disk Block 815 looking so recoverable, so I grabbed a few more captures until I had another three with a few more mismatches and set to work...

To start with, I was looking at a total of 28 mismatches between two or more of five captures, and by a process of elimination including looking for similar code in other parts of the same file, weighing the probabilities according to how many captures contained each of the candidate bytes and comparing the current and target checksums for each MOD(4) column, I eventually made just 17 1-bit changes to my original capture to match the target checksum and thus fix it.

Originally Posted by dirkies

woohoo, this starts to read like an addictive detective story

Let's hope it continues that way. To put today's achievement into perspective, Disk Block 797 required 7 1-bit changes, and Disk Block 845 just 1!

However, the disk blocks I have fixed so far plus those fixed earlier by importing valid files to replace the damaged ones are near the edges of the area covered by the stain and least affected, but it's about to get a whole lot more difficult because the remaining five (Disk Blocks 642, 661, 691, 711 and 778) are in the central area and are worst affected. For example, I don't, as yet, even have a target checksum for Disk Block 711.

Originally Posted by dirkies

Keep trying Prowler, I am sure this will result in some near perfect restoration project

As long as I can make measureable progress, I will keep trying, but I wish I had as much confidence as you!

I shall be taking a short break from this task from tomorrow, because a space has finally been cleared where I can set up a workstation to build a PC and leave it set up until I can dump an image of an old Kyocera KC 30B hard disk which has travelled all the way from Salzburg for the occasion.

[dirkies]

Hey Prowler, I think you have the English C= multitasking demo as I noticed in an older thread you recovered this disk already (I FOUND THE EXACT NAME!):

Amiga 500
The Very First
English Version
PN: 380921-02
(c) Commodore 14.07.87

Would love to see this again, walk down memory lane...