Pal - Ntsc

[dr.mushroom]

I recently bought a PAL Amiga 1200, but I'm in the US, and I'm not exactly sure what I need in order to connect it to a monitor.

I considered buying a converter and just using VGA, but I came across something about a scan doubler? Wiki helped be understand a little about it, but I'm still not sure exactly what it is or what I should look for if/when I purchase one.

Whether I try using RF or composite, I'm going to run into the same PAL - NTSC problem either way, correct? (e.g. I'm going to need a signal converter)

I have a 1702 (could be an '01). It is my understanding that this is one of the monitors which is strictly either NTSC or PAL - mine being the former. What, if any, are my options for using this monitor with my PAL 1200?

I read holding the mouse button while booting will switch between PAL and NTSC. Is this for running foreign software, changing video output, or both?

I really appreciate any input.

[lost_loven]

I used a pal machine with a 1702 monitor before. had no problem at all. If the screen rolls there is a v hold on the back i believe. ( this was so 20 years ago for me at least).

lost

[MacUserX]

to change between pal and ntsc hold down both mouse buttons while booting your computer..you will landing in the amigas boot-menu..press space to toggle between pal and ntsc..so you can use ntsc from startup..when startup finished simply choose an ntsc-video-driver to boot in ntsc next time (Workbench:Prefs/Screen)..if your Screen isn't centered correctly use overscan to adjust your Screen..i recommend you to use a pal monitor because the better resolutions and the better color presentation..your machine will work fine with both standards

P.S. PAL - 50 Hz, NTSC - 60 Hz, some games need the correct Colorsystem they are produced for, because the graphics will run slower or faster in the different colorsystem. this makes timing problems some times and there is also the difference between the resolutions. for example PAL 640x256 vs. NTSC 640x200 or 640x512 vs. 640x400. i hope this will help you a bit

[ajk]

@dr.mushroom

Ordinarily the Amiga output is RGB (separate red, green and blue signals unlike composite or s-video) at about a 15kHz scan rate, which is a traditional video/tv signal. VGA is also RGB, but the scan rate is higher, about double, and therefore many/most modern monitors only accept 31kHz or higher. A scandoubler, in the most basic sense, doubles the scan rate so that these monitors can be used.

The top of the line Amiga-specific scandoubler available at the moment is the Indivision series, which is really more than just a scandoubler, it offers selectable output frequencies and has many other features. It also takes care of the PAL-NTSC issue, since all screen modes can be converted to VGA (or DVI) legal. Plenty of threads about the devices here on the forum if you search.

[dr.mushroom]

Thanks so much, everyone, for your help. I pulled out my 1702, and after some time spent reading my manuals, I was able to work everything out regarding resolution and such.

Unfortunately, (lol - my noob is showing) it didn't take me long to realize I have no way to connect the A1200 through the Luma/Chroma (unless there is a converter I'm not aware of) of my 1702, and because of the region issues, it can't display color through composite.

So, now that I am a little more familiar with the issue, I am interested in buying an RGB monitor. I know the 1084 will work, but I'm not exactly sure which others will.

There are a few "Amiga" monitors listed on eBay, but they don't specify the model or have pictures of the ports. Should I take the "Amiga" label as meaning it will work with my A1200?

Anyone in the USA know of any other, reputable websites from which I could order a monitor? I know European monitors have better display, but the shipping cost makes that a little impractical for my needs.

Again, any input is very appreciated.

[TjLaZer]

I would just look for a Commodore-Amiga RGB monitor. (1080, 1084, etc) Check Craigslist often, eBay or on here. Yes shipping will cost a lot but you can get a monitor for $20 or so. Shipping is usually $50-70 to CONUS. I would not ship a monitor from Europe.

Or get the Indivision and get a SVGA or LCD and call it good. Trying to use Composite from a PAL machine will not give you color on a NTSC composite monitor.

[brett71]

@dr.mushroom: If you're going to look for a 1084 monitor, I *HIGHLY* recommend picking up one of the Philips-made 1084 or 1084S's. Why? When you kick your 1200 back and forth from PAL to NTSC, the monitor automatically adjusts itself and displays correctly in both frequencies. The Daewoo-made 1084 and 1084S's do not do this, so each time you change modes, you have to reach in the back and with the adjustment knobs change the vertical position and height.

@MacUserX: The PAL/NTSC function in the boot menu of Kickstart 3+ is about the most useless thing I've ever tried to use. I have a PAL A500 and an NTSC A3000D. On the A500, if I go into the boot menu and switch it to NTSC and then tell it to boot normally, it immediately kicks back to PAL after leaving the menu. On the A3000D, it's the same deal, but opposite modes. I use Degrader on my A500 and that works 99% of the time, but doesn't on my A3000, and not sure why.

[dr.mushroom]

Thanks for the info on the 1084(S). I would ultimately like to come across one of those.

Here's an update: I did come across a 1902A locally for a low price, and being that it's RGB, I bought it. It came with the DIN-8M - DE-9M cable, and I have a DE-9F - DB-25M converter.

So, here's my thought: Can I buy a DB-23F - DB-23F cable, break 2 of the 25 pins in the male end of the converter, and everything work fine?

[desiv]

Originally Posted by brett71

@MacUserX: The PAL/NTSC function in the boot menu of Kickstart 3+ is about the most useless thing I've ever tried to use. I have a PAL A500 and an NTSC A3000D. On the A500, if I go into the boot menu and switch it to NTSC and then tell it to boot normally, it immediately kicks back to PAL after leaving the menu. .

Weird, being in the U.S., I use that pre-boot menu frequently to go into PAL mode and it works every time....

Anyway, there are also a few s-video adapters out there, but I don't think any are auto-detecting for PAL/NTSC. Amigamaniac's adapter has a switch for it.
Not sure if the 1702 supports both modes tho??
I'd guess not, but not sure..

Originally Posted by dr.mushroom

Here's an update: I did come across a 1902A locally for a low price, and being that it's RGB,

Are you sure...
I thought the 1902 was digital?? Not analog RGB..

--
Oh, did some quick googling and it looks like some of the earlier 1902's were analog. When CBM noticed people were buying these instead of the 1084, they apparently removed RGB.. Interesting..
--

desiv

[LocalH]

Be careful with the Philips 1084 monitors, though - they have a nasty issue with cold solder joints on the flyback transformer. I've had 4 such monitors over the years. If you can fix it, or get it fixed, then they're great monitors.

[dr.mushroom]

Originally Posted by desiv

Are you sure...
I thought the 1902 was digital?? Not analog RGB..

--
Oh, did some quick googling and it looks like some of the earlier 1902's were analog. When CBM noticed people were buying these instead of the 1084, they apparently removed RGB.. Interesting..
--

desiv

This has me a little concerned.. Admittedly I'm a bit of a virgin, and I'm just sort of learning as I go.

The 1902A would have been the later model, correct? Do you mean there might be variations amongst the As or between the As and the original?

Or are you saying it's analog - digital RGB that's the problem? I never even considered this possibility.. : S

--

So I've done some reading, and basically what I'm gathering is, no, the 1902A does not bring me closer to solving my PAL - NTSC problem.

Oh, well.