Hawk ramboard refuses 8mb ram

[rampartsagain]

you are right though the programmer is a tool that i am willing to have a better on and about the chip sooner or later this will have to be preserved i thing some one should create a kind of database for this type of situations.

[Retrofan]

Well, my Australian ram doesn't work either with 8mb, but I'll wait for the final one.
http://www.ebay.es/itm/390188942363?...84.m1439.l2649

Edit: Ok, I've received them and they aren't the ones of the photo. As the seller says "the photo is for illustration purposes only". Now I'm trying to buy him the one of his photo.

[Pegaz]

Its really hard to believe that this is a problem with RAM.
I still think that its a factory defective product, or at least some of examples.
Worst of all is that after all the effort and testing, we still dont know exactly where the cause of the problem.
Or to be precise, what makes the difference between boards that work and those that dont work?

[sneeker]

Are you using Workbench 3.1? I know with my cobra 030 I cant use the pcmcia port with workbench 3.1, but Im fine with workbench 3, only got kickstart 3.0 in the machine.

[Retrofan]

No, 3.0 as I want to use the Pcmcia. But really I woudn't mind now to use 3.1 as long as I could use the 8mb. I've tried both anyway.

If the last ram doesn't work (they will be 8 tried, and 7 another guy here), perhaps someday in a time some guy with a working Hawk and a programmer, if he reads this thread can program some PEEL or GAL16V8B chip for me and surely some guy more here.

[FOL]

If it helps, have a clone of that board here.
Just spent 20 mins getting it working with 8MB. If it doesnt like memory it gives red defective screen.

NEC - 60ns (8MB) seemed to be the favorite. Works fine, full ram test all good.
Sure I had same memory in my Power Computing card (same card).

[Retrofan]

So the question is ejem... Do you have a chip programmer? If so, perhaps I could send my ramboard to Amigakit.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

So the question is ejem... Do you have a chip programmer? If so, perhaps I could send my ramboard to Amigakit.

Unfortunately not.
Are you getting red defective screen?

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by FOL

Are you getting red defective screen?

Nope, it just doesn't boot with 8mb, no red screen, and I can use 4mb with them. BTW: With this mb when I boot I don't have a black screen (before booting), but a blue one. Not sure what it is (edit: it was my mb with a problem with colors)

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Nope, it just doesn't boot with 8mb, no red screen, and I can use 4mb with them. BTW: With this mb when I boot I don't have a black screen (before booting), but a blue one. Not sure what it is.

If its working with 4mb. It cant be chip problem.
What happens if you boot without mem.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by FOL

If its working with 4mb. It cant be chip problem.
What happens if you boot without mem.

It boots without problems (CWBLite, of course).

I get a red screen with a 4mb ram that only boots ocasionally.

Edit (June, 19 -edit june, 24-): My ram wasn't like the one of the photo. It was to "ilustrate"...

But I'm waiting for 2 rams like the ones a guy here had working, Siemens HYM32005S-60, my final try:

[roy bates]

ive just spotted something very interesting over on amibay.


someones just acquired a marpet 1208(inside a 1200),isent that a hawk clone or vica versa?i wonder if its worth asking for some info(as its a 8mb board) and some close up pics of the card maybe?

[Pegaz]

My FPU arrived today and I reasemble everything again, but Hawk still refuse to utilise 8Mb, just four as always. ;(
I try wb 3.0 and 3.1, with or without clock battery, removing 6040 library from libs, change again all my ram packs and NOTHING..
My board revision is D, so this argument about bad rev. C is not true.
As i tought from begining, this is hardware defect in some specimens and there isnt much more to do.
I dont have more patience for this card and dont want to deal with this problem too long.
I will use it with 4MB or I'll sell it in the meantime if I find another or better card to replace it.

And just one question about fpu.
Which utility is best for fpu testing?
SysInfo tells me that i have 68882 installed, but doesnt show the fpu frequency.
I use the crystal oscillator at 40mhz (same as fpu speed), and set jumpers from INT to CPU, but i like to check if everything is Ok.

[roy bates]

load up any fpu related program,like a render program or mandelbrot generator.

have a look on aminet,but read the notes first to see if it supports an fpu if it does then simply put it will load if no then it wont work at all/

but make sure its for an 68882 not 040 or 060 first.

[rampartsagain]

hi retro hi guys i had problems with my mtec pcmcia and some friends here told me that the kickstart 3.1 had a bug related blocking the pcmcia ,and when i tryed edo for 4mb sims the pcmcia was detected right away could this any help for your issues ,could the kickrom infos be the ram related to accelerators?

[Retrofan]

No mate. There are two things with my ramboard: First the problem with pcmcia, but a way to solve it is using kickroms 3.0, but it doesn't affect the second problem, the one I've got with 8mb rams (like Pegaz), that they don't work. With the first problem you can use 8mb but not the pcmcia (that isn't so important to me).

I'm still waiting for my finals rams to try (edited a couple of posts above).

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Pegaz

And just one question about fpu.
Which utility is best for fpu testing?
SysInfo tells me that i have 68882 installed, but doesnt show the fpu frequency.
I use the crystal oscillator at 40mhz (same as fpu speed), and set jumpers from INT to CPU, but i like to check if everything is Ok.

Doesnt it list speed after you do speed test, Im pretty sure it does.

Originally Posted by Retrofan

I'm still waiting for my finals rams to try (edited a couple of posts above).

I could never get them siemens simms to work. Ones that did work, were very unstable.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by FOL

I could never get them siemens simms to work. Ones that did work, were very unstable.

Fingers crossed... perhaps so unstable to run an unstable 8mb ramboard?

With these they will be around 10 rams tried, and others guys here at least the same amount... If they don't work, do you still think it isn't the board?

[Zetr0]

Just to help,

these devices are commonly refered to as an AmiTek HAWK reference card (in 1993), a lot of other companies licensed / branded this card to sell, including Marrpet Developments - 1207 (in 1995), Magnum and Gastiener about that same time too. I believe at one time or other I have owned a version of each of these cards.

I found that EDO memory was very hit and miss, the best response I got was from 60ns FPM memory.

I suspect in the case mentioned here that there is a flaw in one of the GAL chips since it cannot assert memory access past $6000000, I would take the opportunity to inspect the jumpers just incase there is a fault on the selection lines / signals.

I would also inspect the 72pin SIMM memory port to ensure thats not causing any problems.

[roy bates]

i wish i had an 8mb 70ns fpm simm here,i would just send it to you just to see if it would work or not.

i do believe its the card.

[Zetr0]

I have about 200 sticks of 72pin memory.... finding one is literally a needled in a hay-stack... or a simm in a simm-stack =)

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

Just to help,

these devices are commonly refered to as an AmiTek HAWK reference card (in 1993), a lot of other companies licensed / branded this card to sell, including Marrpet Developments - 1207 (in 1995), Magnum and Gastiener about that same time too. I believe at one time or other I have owned a version of each of these cards.

I found that EDO memory was very hit and miss, the best response I got was from 60ns FPM memory.

I suspect in the case mentioned here that there is a flaw in one of the GAL chips since it cannot assert memory access past $6000000, I would take the opportunity to inspect the jumpers just incase there is a fault on the selection lines / signals.

I would also inspect the 72pin SIMM memory port to ensure thats not causing any problems.

Thanks Zetr0, but the board is small... I'm tired of watching it... sometimes I've taked it to the bathdroom instead of a magazine...
There's nothing wrong nowhere... but inside the GAL chips as you say? Or the most rare ram to find...

[rampartsagain]

well it could be memory speed since progamed chips could be anoying in that case by limiting transfer speeds and so i will see if my edo has anything related to nano seconds carved on it ,i put an old 4mb edo on mine tried with whdload some games and run nice and well ,the nastyer is that i have to disassembel a kickrom and correct that issue since nobody cares about me ,sending some custom kick

well i am editing again since i review your last picture retro and that edo soms has the 60ns marked on it hym322005s-(60)

[Zetr0]

@Retrofan

I have a bundle of memory that I know is good, so if you want - hit me up with you address details in PM and I will send some known working sticks in a small jiffy bag for you.

if they do not work for you then there is a problem with the logic on the card.

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Retrofan

I have a bundle of memory that I know is good, so if you want - hit me up with you address details in PM and I will send some known working sticks in a small jiffy bag for you.

if they do not work for you then there is a problem with the logic on the card.

Thanks a lot, but I believe they won't work. I've tried all, including Fpm.
Why am I trying this last? Because all the ones I've seen working (three) are similar, with two smd's, 2 chips each side, and R1,R2,R3,R4 (casuality perhaps?), and a guy had this same working. I've tried rams tested to work and 100% working and from a couple of sellers. Even one of them sent me 4 more to try.
Thanks anyway.

[rampartsagain]

retro you have to go to a wich man

today in a hardware recycle store told me they send an amiga lot to spain man i whanto to go toyour house i want to grab an amiga 4000

[Retrofan]

Sadly I've never seen an A4000 for real , Edit: not even an A600.

[rampartsagain]

neither i but still hoping to get one i have a dream

[rampartsagain]

well a600 are very beautifull little bugs i love them if they could be as powerfull as an a1200 i never bought a a1200 they are compact litlle beatifull i have a a600 project but sadly stopped because i can´t find a 4way ide at a decent price

[Zetr0]

@Retrofan
Sadly indeed =(

while 4MB's is better than none, it still falls short of the feeling you get with 8MB - especially when you bought as such. Is there any chance you and the seller could work something out?


@rampartsagain

You could try AmiBay - www.amibay.com and put up a wanted add / thread - I am sure you can find one (4x buffered IDE interface) in your budget =)


@totally off topic -

Sadly my A4000 is a bit poorly at the moment, so she is resting (in bits) while I try and grab time to fix the motherboard =(

[rampartsagain]

yep zetro prices are always like 50 euros and so and if you make your own accounts with something more you can buy a cheap accelerator ,so it doesn´t benefit price ,use , cost ,and if i had a a4000 to fix i would be like mcgyver rounding it till i sucsses
maybe in the future i will pick up like 200 euros and try to find someone in a forum for now all i see is spiders coming out of my pockets

[Pegaz]

Originally Posted by roy bates

load up any fpu related program,like a render program or mandelbrot generator.

have a look on aminet,but read the notes first to see if it supports an fpu if it does then simply put it will load if no then it wont work at all/

but make sure its for an 68882 not 040 or 060 first.

In meantime i found two programs which show fpu frequency, but it seems that they are not entirely accurate or my crystal oscillator isnt at 40MHz.
Programs are "Which Amiga" and "AIBB".
Which Amiga shows cpu freq-14.2, fpu-27.9mhz
AIBB gives 14.3 for cpu and 33.9mhz for fpu instead of 40mhz.
Now I dont know whether these two programs is inaccurate or I'll have to acquire a new crystal.
Since retrofan and I have the same FPU/crystal speed, I would like to ask him for help, to test these two programs and tell me the results.
Thanks in advance.
The links are:
http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/WhichAmiga
http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/AIBB_65

Originally Posted by FOL

Doesnt it list speed after you do speed test, Im pretty sure it does.

Unfortunately, not.
At least version I use.

And about Hawk.
I spend some more time today and test this card again, this time with AmigaSYS4 AGA v1.3 with OS 3.0 installed, but results are the same.
OS boot normaly, WB and other sys programs reports 8mb of fast ram, but AMITEK test failed again at $60000 and ofc all whd games crashed with dos error.
When I change jumpers to 4Mb, everything works like a charm.
Am running out of ideas...

[Retrofan]

Really my Hawk was somekind of gift when I bought my A1200 with box, manuals, joystick, floppies, as Out of order (the miggy) for 50 pounds. Finally it was only a bad floppy drive.

Pegaz I will try it, but as soon as I'll change all the caps and if I can I will fix the problem with the Colors I've got. Unfortunately my other mb is in Germany 'cause a problem with the Indi.

Forget about changing the Os. I've tried all the CWB ones. An easy way to see it doesn't matter is booting from the 3.1 install floppy and then install the Amitek floppy. You'll see the same error at $6000000.

I'm waiting for my last ram. Or that's the problem or we can say it's a faulty (and common) problem with the GAL or PEEL chips, it seems they used both.


EDIT: Ok, I've tried it. With WhichAmiga I get that it's got CPU 14.2 and an FPU 68882 (nothing else). With AIBB the same as you, CPU 14.3, FPU 33.9


BUT... When I've first tried it it was showing with AIBB an Fpu of 14.3Mhz, the same of the CPU. I've changed the jumpers to "INT" and then is when it was showing 33.9. If you read the manual it says: "Set the jumper LK4 to either INT to use the machine's clock of 14.3Mhz or to CPU to use the speed of the crystal that you have fitted."

So the instructions are WRONG. ... What happens?

[Pegaz]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

EDIT: Ok, I've tried it. With WhichAmiga I get that it's got CPU 14.2 and an FPU 68882 (nothing else). With AIBB the same as you, CPU 14.3, FPU 33.9


BUT... When I've first tried it it was showing with AIBB an Fpu of 14.3Mhz, the same of the CPU. I've changed the jumpers to "INT" and then is when it was showing 33.9. If you read the manual it says: "Set the jumper LK4 to either INT to use the machine's clock of 14.3Mhz or to CPU to use the speed of the crystal that you have fitted."

So the instructions are WRONG. ... What happens?

Thanks for the test Retrofan and yes, exactly the same thing happens with me.
I immediately assumed that the instructions are wrong.
Look at the front picture of Hawk board (with FPU), from original card box and you'll see that the jumpers are set on INT, not on the CPU as manual says.
But, if you look at some pictures from net, jumpers are in opposite position at CPU
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/downlo...hawk_4_big.jpg

I am litle confused now, is it possible that the jumpers are factory set incorrectly in some specimens of the card?
Maybe AIBB not quite accurate, but I doubt that he can make such a mistake and slower FPU frequency declare for faster and vice versa.
To be absolutely sure, we should test the card with some demanding FPU program.
Does anyone can suggest good FPU related program for speed testing?
We must measure speed difference between fpu at 14.3 and 40 mhz and thats isnt a easy task.
Most of the games (99.9%), doesnt use fpu at all, so we need some utility program for this purposes.
AIBB has several math tests, but i am not sure whether it utilised the FPU or not?

Edit: I do some tests through AIBB and results are the same, both with CPU and INT jumper position.
Obviously AIBB doesnt use fpu for these tests.

[rampartsagain]

Originally Posted by Pegaz

Thanks for the test Retrofan and yes, exactly the same thing happens with me.
I immediately assumed that the instructions are wrong.
Look at the front picture of Hawk board (with FPU), from original card box and you'll see that the jumpers are set on INT, not on the CPU as manual says.
But, if you look at some pictures from net, jumpers are in opposite position at CPU
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/downlo...hawk_4_big.jpg

I am litle confused now, is it possible that the jumpers are factory set incorrectly in some specimens of the card?
Maybe AIBB not quite accurate, but I doubt that he can make such a mistake and slower FPU frequency declare for faster and vice versa.
To be absolutely sure, we should test the card with some demanding FPU program.
Does anyone can suggest good FPU related program for speed testing?
We must measure speed difference between fpu at 14.3 and 40 mhz and thats isnt a easy task.
Most of the games (99.9%), doesnt use fpu at all, so we need some utility program for this purposes.
AIBB has several math tests, but i am not sure whether it utilised the FPU or not?

Edit: I do some tests through AIBB and results are the same, both with CPU and INT jumper position.
Obviously AIBB doesnt use fpu for these tests.

don´t sysinfo test fpu ,and cpu speeds ????

[Retrofan]

I've just received 4 8mb rams. 2 of each kind, a kind the Siemens one. None works but with 4 mb.

So it's clear: It isn't the ram. It is the PEEL chip that is wrong