Heroes of Might and Magic II

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Toaks

WOW, impressive project.
Didnt know about it before now.

Impressive, yes, maybe. But it's quite difficult to manage (large resourced code). This explains why there are some bugs that i know but cannot fix yet.

Originally Posted by Toaks

As for Timidity, it works fine but its a bitch to set up, i am sure we can find time and space to help you install that if it so be.

Best i could do with it is make it load a midi file, then crash with 8000000F (tried to use fpu ?)...

[Lord Riton]

I still play heroes of might and magic 3 daily !

I really would love to play Heroes 2 on the Amiga (even if i only under WinUAE).

So when can we expect a playable version ?

[nujack]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

So when can we expect a playable version ?

When "Quests Of Nargoth" is finished.

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by nujack

When "Quests Of Nargoth" is finished.

OW !! that was a hard punch


QON is to slow on a real Amiga, it's fact. Maybe i could get it to run a bit faster if i would recode it for 68030+ processors (it's entierly made in 68000). I could maybe also gain a little bit of speed if using Kaalms chunky to plannar routine. .. maybe.. probably not that much..
..well , it's just so much work , and i'm not in the mood to get on it atm.

I should probably edit my signature and remove QON from it, but who knows, maybe someone who could really , and i mean REALLY ! motivate me, might miss it then, we never know

I think we should blam Blizzard for my lazyness ! Yes, World of Warcraft stole all my programming motivation ! And also Heroes of might and magic 3's fault ! don't forget Dark Soul's !! .. oh, and that remembers me i need to go level my Berzerker char in Skyrim !! NOW ! See you later !!

[Cammy]

PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ON QUESTS OF NARGOTH!

I love it, it runs fine on my 030 A1200, I have explored the dungeons of the demos you released and was so surprised and flattered to see that I could choose myself as a playable character.

I wish I could do more to motivate you to continue with this awesome game, I have had my hopes up since you started posting about it, I think it's brilliant and so impressive to see the 3D engine moving smoothly in 262,144 colours.

I don't think it's so bad that you have spent all this time playing those great PC RPGs, when game developers play games it's called research! You're learning more about how to make your own game better.

[Lord Riton]

wow ! If this isn't motivation enough, then i don't know what else could be

Thank you Cammy ! You must read through the forums intensively and dayli, or how else could you have posted this so fast

Well, i don't abandon the project, i have it just put on freeze. In fact i'm actually working on another Amiga project. It's a Captive remake we trying to do, some people from this forum. I don't think you will be able to check it out, it's a private forum, but i'll give you the link just so you can see it's true: http://eab.abime.net/forumdisplay.php?f=111

I definitively will continue QON affter this, i promize !

Thank you for the support !

And to Meynaf: sorry for talking about something else than Heroes of might and magic II on this thread, and i really expect you to make it playable before i continue the coding on QON !

[frikilokooo]

About Quest of Nargoth I am very disappointed about its abandonment,I think it's the best project after Mr.Beanbag.I wonder if it would work faster with poor textures and a little popping though.I would have liked a playable level with enemies at least

[meynaf]

*ahem*

Did you know that actual release is already playable ?
It's just... slow. But you can play a game from start to end.

Only thing you need is original (PC or Mac) game data files, including smacker anims.

Now please extend QON to reach that level of playability

[Lord Riton]

***

[meynaf]

Ready to play HOMM2 now, Riton ?

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Ready to play HOMM2 now, Riton ?

Yes ! Got it to work ! It plays like the original on PC

I'm on WinUAE, and it plays even faster than the original. When the computer's turn comes, it plays ultra fast, i love it !

Some minor bugs i noticed (so far) :

- I didn't have music (sound worked great).
- I could not split my creature stacks with the shift key, and this bug is a major one for me ! Removes a lot of strategy

Great work !

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Yes ! Got it to work ! It plays like the original on PC

It should

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

I'm on WinUAE, and it plays even faster than the original. When the computer's turn comes, it plays ultra fast, i love it !

Good thing, but i think it's still far too slow for my taste

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Some minor bugs i noticed (so far) :

- I didn't have music (sound worked great).

Not really a bug. Music is simply not supported. I've searched for a musician able to convert/remix these midi files into protracker or similar, but guess what, i found nobody.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- I could not split my creature stacks with the shift key, and this bug is a major one for me ! Removes a lot of strategy

This is known fact
As you've asked for it, i'm pushing it on top of todo list.

[tom256]

First I couldn't start the game because of anim files. But after replacing it, everything work just fine.
I miss only splitting unit in two.

Any chance for HOMM 3? :P

@edit
http://forum.vcmi.eu/portal.php - Here is new heroes 3.5 engine recreated, but Amiga classic will be probably to slow for this engine.

But original version need Pentium 133 and 32MB RAM, so maybe its possible to play with Amiga MC68060.

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by tom256

Any chance for HOMM 3 :P

HoMM 3, the best game ever ! for me at least

I still play homm 3 daily

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by tom256

First I couldn't start the game because of anim files. But after replacing it, everything work just fine.

Next version will have command line options to turn anims off (intro anims or all of them).

Originally Posted by tom256

I miss only splitting unit in two.

This is done now. Just waiting to be released.

Originally Posted by tom256

Any chance for HOMM 3? :P

Maybe, maybe not. What are the features in HOMM3 that HOMM2 is lacking ?

Originally Posted by tom256

@edit
http://forum.vcmi.eu/portal.php - Here is new heroes 3.5 engine recreated, but Amiga classic will be probably to slow for this engine.

But original version need Pentium 133 and 32MB RAM, so maybe its possible to play with Amiga MC68060.

Sounds like "free heroes2" project.

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Maybe, maybe not. What are the features in HOMM3 that HOMM2 is lacking ?

Oh man ! You should go play homm3 for a longer while, you would fast forget homm2.

Before i discovered homm3 , homm2 was my favorit game, and i played it really much. Homm3 is just some sort of super homm2 for me.

- There are of course the 9 factions, instead of 6 for homm2.
- Combat is more strategic, you can make your creatures wait on their turn, to strike at the end of the combat (fastest units will strike last), and the combat fields are a little larger.
- The heroes are more charistmatic, with great unique and usefull skills for each, and there are more of them too.
- Lot of ameliorations on building up your town.
- Graphics are better (for me at least)
- Sound too (listen to barbarian music ! or fortress ! just wonderfull !)
- More artefacts and more of a lot of other things. It's just more of everything !
- Last but not least ! The random map generator !! This is a wonderfull thing that makes me still play homm3 daily !!

Well, i don't remember homm2 enough anymore to add more things atm, because i stopped to play homm2 when homm3 came out, and that was many years agoo now.

I play homm 3.5 too, like Tom256 pointed out. It's homm3 with even more ameliorations, but even the single homm 3.0 is miles ahead of homm2 for me

Edit: There are still new projects for homm3 also ! Some Russian team is doing some (already playeable) expansion called Heart of the Abyss: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26298 It's all in Russian atm, but they plan to have the english version soon !

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Oh man ! You should go play homm3 for a longer while, you would fast forget homm2.

I don't think so. I played a demo version long ago and it didn't impress me.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Before i discovered homm3 , homm2 was my favorit game, and i played it really much. Homm3 is just some sort of super homm2 for me.

- There are of course the 9 factions, instead of 6 for homm2.

And very illogical units. In HOMM2 there is some logic in which units belongs to which faction. None of that in HOMM3.
Btw I don't like the HOMM3 units.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- Combat is more strategic, you can make your creatures wait on their turn, to strike at the end of the combat (fastest units will strike last),

There is some hint inside HOMM2 saying it was already planned but got disabled...

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

and the combat fields are a little larger.

How can it be larger than the screen ? Units are smaller, aren't they ?

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- The heroes are more charistmatic, with great unique and usefull skills for each, and there are more of them too.

HOMM2 extension also has new heroes.
What are the HOMM3 specific skills ?

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- Lot of ameliorations on building up your town.

A lot of them were already not very useful in HOMM2. Worse there, eh ?

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- Graphics are better (for me at least)

And the game is much slower.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- Sound too (listen to barbarian music ! or fortress ! just wonderfull !)

HOMM2 musics are good too. Do you have CD tracks of it ?

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- More artefacts and more of a lot of other things. It's just more of everything !

Like HOMM2x.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

- Last but not least ! The random map generator !! This is a wonderfull thing that makes me still play homm3 daily !!

Did you know that THERE IS a random map generator in HOMM2, too ?
Some versions (like mine) have it disabled (probably was buggy) but try HOMM2 at least V2 on the PC and have a nice day.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Well, i don't remember homm2 enough anymore to add more things atm, because i stopped to play homm2 when homm3 came out, and that was many years agoo now.

I play homm 3.5 too, like Tom256 pointed out. It's homm3 with even more ameliorations, but even the single homm 3.0 is miles ahead of homm2 for me

Mile ahead ? For me it's a regression !
Btw isn't there an HOMM4 game on the PC, too ?

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Edit: There are still new projects for homm3 also ! Some Russian team is doing some (already playeable) expansion called Heart of the Abyss: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26298 It's all in Russian atm, but they plan to have the english version soon !

Well, convert the x86 code to 68k and we'll see

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by meynaf

I don't think so. I played a demo version long ago and it didn't impress me.

Like i said, you should play it for a longer while, to learn to appreciate all the improvements.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And very illogical units. In HOMM2 there is some logic in which units belongs to which faction. None of that in HOMM3.
Btw I don't like the HOMM3 units.

This of your comments i really don't understand. I find the units do really well fit to their factions, and i love them all.

Originally Posted by meynaf

How can it be larger than the screen ? Units are smaller, aren't they ?

The H2 field is 11X9 hexagons. The H3 field is 15X11. Of course the units are a little bit smaller then, but still they are much more detailled and look better, because Homm2 is in 640X480 256 colors, while Homm3 is in 800X600 65536 colors.

Originally Posted by meynaf

What are the HOMM3 specific skills ?

I cannot list them up all here. Almost all hero has it's own (a fiew have the same special skill). Some skills are:

- The hero gets a 5% bonus to Logistic skill for each of his levels. Ie, if you are at lvl 10, you get 50% bonus to your logistic skill. If you have a 30% (expert) logistic, this means it's like if you had a 45% logistic skill (30% + 50% of 30% = 45%).
- The hero gives you 350 suplementary gold per day. Or one other ressource per day.
- The hero does specialize with one of his creatures, like Valeska for example, who is specialized with archers or the upgraded version (Marksmen), and so these get +1 speed, and also +1 att and +1 def for each 4 lvls Of Valeska.
- Some heroes are specialized with a specific spell, like meteor shower for exemple, he then makes more damage with this spell.
- And so on...

Originally Posted by meynaf

A lot of them were already not very useful in HOMM2. Worse there, eh ?

No, it's much better, all are usefull.

Originally Posted by meynaf

And the game is much slower.

There are more things and the maps are bigger, so yes, it is a bit slower on the same PC. But the IA of the computer is also stronger.

Originally Posted by meynaf

HOMM2 musics are good too. Do you have CD tracks of it ?

Barbarian music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmCwz9zf01I
You can find all other musics, with their town view, there too.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Mile ahead ? For me it's a regression !

You only played some sort of (probably early) demo, and you can say this ?
Like i said, go play it for a longer while, i'm sure it would change your mind by far.. Don't forget, i played homm2 for a very intense and long while before homm3 came out too. I know both, you not..

Originally Posted by meynaf

Btw isn't there an HOMM4 game on the PC, too ?

This is prouve to me that you only played homm casualy.
We are now at version 6 of heroes of might and magic. I personnaly preffer homm3. I have and played them all 6.

Originally Posted by meynaf

Well, convert the x86 code to 68k and we'll see

I'm aware that Homm3 cannot fit on "normal" Amigas. It's just to big. There would have to be some sort of remake and not just source transposition. The graphics and animation would have to suffer a lot. Also the IA would probably have to be simplified a bit to make it fast enough. Probably not possible.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

I'm aware that Homm3 cannot fit on "normal" Amigas. It's just to big. There would have to be some sort of remake and not just source transposition. The graphics and animation would have to suffer a lot. Also the IA would probably have to be simplified a bit to make it fast enough. Probably not possible.

I'm pretty sure that this can work on 68030+enough memory. Not possible is far too easy to say.

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by Thorham

I'm pretty sure that this can work on 68030+enough memory. Not possible is far too easy to say.

How many persons have a real Amiga with more than 10 Mega bytes ? Certainly not many. Also if the AI takes 5mns or longer each turn, i for me won't call it playable.

[tom256]

I don't think so. I played a demo version long ago and it didn't impress me.

Well I was playing full version for a long time. Believe me HOMM3 is far better.

And very illogical units. In HOMM2 there is some logic in which units belongs to which faction. None of that in HOMM3.
Btw I don't like the HOMM3 units.

Units look much better. My firs impression was just like yours, but after I back for a while to HOMM2..... no HOMM3 is far better.
Look at City's, units, music, sounds comes from everywhere.

...And very illogical units.....

Agree, after playing HOMM2, a had the same impression. But now there are much more units. Fights are also more interesting.

Heroes 3 is just far more superior than any other HOMM including 4,5,6, all together.

The H2 field is 11X9 hexagons. The H3 field is 15X11. Of course the units are a little bit smaller then, but still they are much more detailled and look better, because Homm2 is in 640X480 256 colors, while Homm3 is in 800X600 65536

Big advantage is that only few most powerfull units can attack enemy units on all battlefiled. So in other word, common unit can't reach your shooting units in one move(usually 2-3 turns, unless haste or teleport is used).

What are the HOMM3 specific skills ?

Just like Lord Riton said, also Heroes have now profession:
For example Hero is specialized in Nagas, and Naga unit gain extra Speed Attack and Defense under his command.
Hero specialized in Chain Lighting when cast this spell it will do more damaged etc.

A lot of them were already not very useful in HOMM2. Worse there, eh ?

I would said there are more usefull than the builidngs in HOMM2, but some are less important. :P Still IMO is far better than HOMM2

- More artifacts and more of a lot of other things. It's just more of everything !
Like HOMM2x.

There is something new now. In Heroes 3 you can join artifacts to create one much more powerful.

HOMM3.5
Mile ahead ? For me it's a regression !

Unit gain experience(YES!!!), some useless skill are now improved. Balista, Aid Tent, and Ammo Card are improved, unit rebalanced, new skills, new artifacts, plenty of improvements, but not relay stable. Hundreds of new options where do you see regression??

...and HOMM4 suxx

Well, convert the x86 code to 68k and we'll see

Lets focus on HOMM2 for now until it is finished

How many persons have a real Amiga with more than 10 Mega bytes ? Certainly not many.

Many. Stock A4000 has 18MB. A1200 with Low cost memory expansions or Turbo Board has 10MB or more.
Hey man, its 2012!!! Be serious. 2MB was not enough in 1992.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

How many persons have a real Amiga with more than 10 Mega bytes ? Certainly not many.

Quite a few have accelerators, and I've had a 16 MB stick for over ten years (recently got 64 MB).

Also, if you remake the game from scratch, it may turn out that you need less than 10 MB. Don't underestimate the fact that a lot of peecee software isn't very optimal.

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Also if the AI takes 5mns or longer each turn, i for me won't call it playable.

Again, if implemented from scratch, why would it?

The fact is that the peecee version may just be slow and require more recourses than are truly needed. If I had the game, I might be able to make a good estimate, but I don't

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Quite a few have accelerators, and I've had a 16 MB stick for over ten years (recently got 64 MB).

I don't. I have 10 Mb (2 CHIP + 8 Fast), and this was the most ram you could have at the time i bought it. And it was more than enough then. That's why i don't think many have more, and i tend to not call it a "Classic" Amiga anymore if beyond.

[tom256]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

I don't. I have 10 Mb (2 CHIP + 8 Fast), and this was the most ram you could have at the time i bought it. And it was more than enough then. That's why i don't think many have more, and i tend to not call it a "Classic" Amiga anymore if beyond.

Maybe it time to buy new ACA1231??

[Lord Riton]

Originally Posted by tom256

Maybe it time to buy new ACA1231??

Not for me. I don't use my real Amiga anymore. WinUAE is working well enough, and i have 4GB of RAM

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

Not for me. I don't use my real Amiga anymore.

Oh no Perhaps you should sell it then. It's a shame to have the thing sitting in a corner collecting dust

Originally Posted by Lord Riton

WinUAE is working well enough, and i have 4GB of RAM

4 GB? How much ram do you have in your peecee? And what on earth do you need 4GB for on an Amiga anyway? Actually, it can't be 4 GB because the first 16 MB can't be filled with ram completely

[Lord Riton]

my PC has 4GB.. Of course i don't have 4GB for my Amiga, but i guess with a PC and 4GB, you can set the max possible RAM for your AMiga, what ever that number is (160 MB ?)

Well, anyway, my point was that Amigas with over 10Mb aren't Classic amigas for me anymore. Some people would even says as soon as you have an expansion in your Amiga it's no more a classic Amiga.

[meynaf]

HOMM2 would work for 10MB, and even though it's a little bit too small for it, memory footprint of the game should decrease as i work on it. But memory sizes are OT for me.

I don't want to endlessly argue here, and HOMM3 being 800x600x16 is alone a reason for me to say plain "no" to a port. And rather than starting from scratch, it's better for me to add the features in HOMM2.

[tom256]

Any news about next version???

[meynaf]

I will try to put it online ASAP. Next week probably.

[meynaf]

Next version online now.
URL has changed, though :
http://meynaf.free.fr/pr/homm2.lzx

Hello


You doing great work with the Heroes 2 !

I tested the game today with my A1200
Specs:
Phase 5 T/ERC Blizzard 68040 32mb
Indivision Aga MK2
WB 3.9

Game works pretty well with my system and im hoping that you will contiune the project & improve it

Tommi

[kriz]

Ohh i forgot to test . thanks, downloaded !!

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Godspeed

Game works pretty well with my system and im hoping that you will contiune the project & improve it

I will. It will just take some time.

[nujack]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Next version online now.
URL has changed, though :
http://meynaf.free.fr/pr/homm2.lzx

Thank you meynaf!!!

[ari68k]

Hey Meynaf I wanted to test this piece of work but it seems to me that homm2.lzx (just grabbed it twice from your site) has an error. At least on my real A1200 (OS3.9) I cannot extract it: Unarc doesn't open it, LhA complains that the archive is corrupt (no data extracted) and lzx (1.21 68020/030) produces a guru when I try to extract it.

Any help would be much appreciated. Might be that just me miggy is playing tricks on me but you never know, so I figured it best to ask

homm2.lzx (MD5: 07327246931e7f3dd73f7e559f90d423)

Edit: Hrmm I was able to extract it ona peecee with universal extractor. So it is not the archives... Guess I have to check my archivers...

Edit: Got the culprits seems like my system didn't like the mountfiles BoingBag4 installed since I removed them (VNC,JAZ etc.) I can extract it and play but I have to agree that it is a bit too slow on a 68030 especially on the worldmap but nicely done Meynaf! Would love to see it improved, this brings back memories of very hot Hot-Seat-Sessions

[meynaf]

It's possible you had some MaxTransfer issues or something like that.

[tom256]

Set Maxtransfer to 0x1FE00 and check if the problem still exist.

BTW If you are using FFS, adding 1000 buffers will help a lot with disks transfer.

[ari68k]

I do not know why it affected lzx and lha but the new files of BoingBag4k in DEVS: DosDrivers caused trouble when I moved them to Storage/DosDrivers them all was cool

I tried to convert the midi files on a peecee the best I could do was a FastTracker format (*.xm). I used the following programs for this:
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/xmi2mid/
http://openmpt.org/download (FasTracker compatibility mode in Song Settings and compatibility export to XM from the File menu)

Now I am pondering what to use to get the FastTracker module converted to ProTracker (If one chooses to directly export to Protracker from OpenMPT one looses half of the rows)

There is also one tool on aminet which might help to get a direct midi to ProTracker conversion but it is rather complex to configure if one does not know much about midi (like myself).
http://aminet.net/package/mus/misc/ptmid

I will compare the XM files I created with the midi's if they sound correct to my ears I can upload them. Or maybe someone who has more knowledge of midi/mod can take it from here with the hints I provided?

Edit:
Sadly the tools I used all lost informations in form of patterns,instruments and samples beginning with XMI2MID

Maybe if we know a way to get clean Midi files from the game XMI files (midi+DLS?) we can use OctaMED and one of the plugins from the aminet.

(I have compared the XMI and MID files with foobar2000 on Windows because I couldn't find anything to play XMI on Ubuntu and sadly they are not identical as in the MID files already miss information from the XMI's)

@Tom256:
Yeah AddBuffers really helps quite a bit

[meynaf]

If you have converted the midi files into something else, even if it's more than 4ch please upload. At least i will tell you if they sound good to my ears too.
I remember trying some convertion program in the past, and it gave lamentable results.