A600 4MB RAM upgrade board (was 8MB)

[kipper2k]

Hi All,

I found this page while trolling...

http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb/index.html

it is a design done in 2007 for an 8mb ram upgrade for an A600 and i am wondering if anyone has the eagle cad files/info/anything about this board. if parts/help vailable i'd like to try this, no promises, i have a lot on my plate at the moment but i think it would be a good ptoject. I know that there was a 2008 upgrade to this board but can't find anything

[cpiac64]

the 4 mega version is ok, the 8 mega i suppose is only for sale

[Predseda]

contact Zetr0 over Amibay, he should be able to tell you more. This is one of the failed projects and probably a reason why Zetr0 doesnt appear on EAB anymore

[alexh]

Zetr0 will have them. He had a deal with LordV and AcidRain to remake the 2008 version.

A mistake crept into the re-designed PCB and ruined the whole batch. Probably cost a lot of money!

Here is the original 2008 page.

http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/index.html

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by alexh

Zetro will have them. He had a deal with LordV to remake the 2008 version.

A mistake crept into the re-designed PCB and ruined the whole batch.

http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/index.html

Hi Alexh,

I remember that, something about the omitted ground plane. I haven't seen any activity from Zetr0 for a while. I'll try to get hold of him and see if he has anything

Thanks

[alexh]

I imagine that making a low cost PCMCIA SRAM card might be as easy and as much use for A600 users. Half length??

[Arnie]

Originally Posted by alexh

I imagine that making a low cost PCMCIA SRAM card might be as easy and as much use for A600 users. Half length??

Even half the cost would be helpful

[spock-79]

I made three collective orders at a1k.org. The 2007 Version works really good, is easy to solder and there is also a firmware for 4MB. With the 4MB firmware PCMCIA is still working!


For me it's the perfekt A600 RAM-Expansion. One expansion with 4MB costs ~26€, 8MB was ~32€, pending on ordered PCBs and the price of the RAM ICs.

[fitzsteve]

Originally Posted by spock-79

I made three collective orders at a1k.org. The 2007 Version works really good, is easy to solder and there is also a firmware for 4MB. With the 4MB firmware PCMCIA is still working!


For me it's the perfekt A600 RAM-Expansion. One expansion with 4MB costs ~26€, 8MB was ~32€, pending on ordered PCBs and the price of the RAM ICs.

Maybe we could do a group buy for kits for assembly by the end user or an EAB'er could do them for a small fee?

I would buy a couple of kits

[spock-79]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Maybe we could do a group buy for kits for assembly by the end user or an EAB'er could do them for a small fee?

I would buy a couple of kits

Sure we can! I have ordered 30 PCBs, all needed parts to assemble the expansion are already here. The PCBs should normally arrive until end of may.
Programming the CPLD is also no problem.

But i have to sort out how much expansions are already sold...

On Amibay i posted a little HowTo for building the expansion:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=13132


And yes, my english is awful... Especially when it comes to technical things..

[kipper2k]

i can assemble these, What would be the cost of the boards plus the parts ?. if people want them assembled i can assemble them. 4mb is good enough for WHDload games and allowing those apps that require fast ram to run.

I could get the boards made pretty cheaply too

[alenppc]

Making anything for the poor 600 is a good idea, but I think the major issue is the 68000 here. Adding a 68020 would be a major boost in power and usefulness. There was a dude on Amiga.org a few years ago who bought a whole bunch of 14 MHz 68EC020s (250 or so?) on ebay with the intention of developing something for the 600. Wonder whatever happened with that.

[Allen1]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

i can assemble these, What would be the cost of the boards plus the parts ?. if people want them assembled i can assemble them. 4mb is good enough for WHDload games and allowing those apps that require fast ram to run.

I could get the boards made pretty cheaply too

I know that I would be interested in a couple of these either assembled or in kit form, assembled would be the easiest method though

[duga]

Interested in 4 MB version.

[spock-79]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

i can assemble these, What would be the cost of the boards plus the parts ?. if people want them assembled i can assemble them. 4mb is good enough for WHDload games and allowing those apps that require fast ram to run.

I could get the boards made pretty cheaply too

Pending on customs duty and shipping costs, one PCB will be around 5€.

But this time it was really hard to find a big amount of cheap RAM ICs, and i had to pay custom duty for the CPLDs (they came from digikey).

So one 4MB expansion is about 26€, 8MB 32€.

I earn nothing on the expansions, even if somebody wants a assembled unit the price is the same.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by spock-79

Pending on customs duty and shipping costs, one PCB will be around 5€.

But this time it was really hard to find a big amount of cheap RAM ICs, and i had to pay custom duty for the CPLDs (they came from digikey).

So one 4MB expansion is about 26€, 8MB 32€.

I earn nothing on the expansions, even if somebody wants a assembled unit the price is the same.

I wouldn't have to pay duty on the cpld's. Are compatible ram chips available from digikey ? and if so, part numbers

[spock-79]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

I wouldn't have to pay duty on the cpld's. Are compatible ram chips available from digikey ? and if so, part numbers

No, the ram chips aren't available at digikey. Only FPM ram in 42 pin SOJ package is possible on this expansion, for example HY5118160

[kipper2k]

what about this memory ...

http://download.siliconexpert.com/pd...118(6)160c.pdf

in the 42 pin SOJ format

[spock-79]

That should be the right ram chips. Every 42 pin Ram chip with 8160 in his part number should work.

[alexh]

If I remember correctly the problem with the 2007 version is the physical fit? Which was why the 2008 version is a dual PCB board.

How bad is it?

[magnetic]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

i can assemble these, What would be the cost of the boards plus the parts ?. if people want them assembled i can assemble them. 4mb is good enough for WHDload games and allowing those apps that require fast ram to run.

I could get the boards made pretty cheaply too

GOGOGOGOGO



Kipper you are the man! always cool and useful amiga projects. I think this would be a hit since no more a600 expansions made atm.

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by alexh

If I remember correctly the problem with the 2007 version is the physical fit? Which was why the 2008 version is a dual PCB board.

How bad is it?

I tried to open the .sch and .brd files from the 2007 version and they were created using P-Cad 2001 which i do not have and is also not for sale/supported now, there are also no (free) tools to convert it to Eagle so my only option would be to start from scratch using the picture of the schematic and retrace everything. I have found some compatible 44 pin ram that can be used too that is still stocked so compatible ram looks like it is available Although i little bit of rewiring is required. I suppose the plus side of this would be i could redesign the shape to allow it to co-exist with other addons. if i could find gerber files of the 2007 design i could get the board created

I have someone searching for the original ram chips also so it is possible i get a hit there. What appears to be the best is to try to work with the original design as it is a known working schematic so it obviously reduces the chances of errors creeping in when being reproduced (not to mention saves a whole bunch of time).

[spock-79]

Originally Posted by alexh

If I remember correctly the problem with the 2007 version is the physical fit? Which was why the 2008 version is a dual PCB board.

How bad is it?

The only problem is the 68pin socket which clips over the MC68000. The pins from the socket have to be bent about 3mm, only then there is enough space between the expansion and the mainboard.

All shown in my little HowTo on Amibay .

Some Pictures of the expansion:




And if you use a small adapter for a 68010 (this one is switchable between 68000 and 68010), the space problem is also history ..

[kipper2k]

k,

was able to find, download, install and successfully open the files in P-Cad 2006 so at least i should be able to create gerber files (once i figure it all out lol). What i am thinking is to reduce the board size by 50% and make it a 4mb board, i'm open to suggestions, possible pitfalls etc. I may (MAY!) make the cpu socket a different mini board dependent on height clearance. We'll see, got a few things to keep me amused in the short term. Will have my boards for the PSX adapter on Fri/Mon. and a few other goodies arriving soion

[jimbob]

Cool, I'd be interested in at least one 4mb kit.

Is it correct that with a 68000 there is no way to get 8Mb to work with pcmcia? Would there be any advantage to creating a 4+1.5 configuration like the 2008 version has or is this kinda impossible or more trouble than it's worth without starting from an 8mb board?

Would it be simple to add a jumper for an NMI button to such a board?

[duga]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

k,
What i am thinking is to reduce the board size by 50% and make it a 4mb board

That's exactly what I would prefer.

[lesta_smsc]

I've got a friend who makes PCBs... If there was a big enough market he could create such devices but appreciably it has to be economically viable.

[majsta]

I don't see any point of recreating something like this. It is too easy to create this board. Shore it can be smaller but those mem chips are hard to find but it can be done. I think that I can manage to produce those boards for less than 10 euros per piece but I don't see any point of doing this...

[spock-79]

Originally Posted by majsta

I think that I can manage to produce those boards for less than 10 euros per piece...

Fully populated??

[majsta]

Yes, what do you have there expensive instead memory (hard to find). Everything else is cheap. I didn't look at the schematics long time ago but as I recall Altera Max is used, JTAG header, SRAM memory and few resistors, capacitors and PLCC-68 socket surface mounted version. So you can calculate for yourself that is cheap. Even JTAG header is not necessary here after Max is programmed.
PCB can be done with this parameters for really low price :
thickness: 1.0mm
dimension: 100mmX100mm
layer: 2
colour: green
surface finish: Hasl

[mfilos]

Making it smaller would be awesome!!!
I really love the small footprint that Boboo used on his Furia S628 and the sandwich FuriaRAM. 10MB in total and an 28MHz 68000 was really nice to have on my spare A600



Anything for the A600 is definitely welcome

[majsta]

Yes I read your test bench when you received the board. But on this picture I see that he used GAL and FPGA device for memory also does not make any sense. I remember that he left one header for further upgrades and on that header on this picture I see CPLD device. clock buffer and level shifter or something. Like I said why use GAL why don't use CPLD device for memory and for solving timing difference between 7.09Mhz clk and new one. Anyhow perfect look, and maybe best thing for Amiga that single person produced. When I look back in time on single thing worked hundreds of people and he managed alone ! But Lets wait I m coming next in line

[kipper2k]

so far i've found 50 chips at a decent price. The boards can be made for roughly $4 (Canadian) a board so its definately a lot better than 10 euros. if you do the conversion you are looking at about 3 euro's. I could actually use compatible 44 pin FP 1m x 16 dram chips which are still being stocked by major electronic distributors in Canada/US. Bottom line is it is not that expensive and it still serves a useful purpose

@majsta

I took a look at your accelerator and I want you to get that done (hence donation) I know there are people out there that have different ideas for their machines. What kind of price are you looking at for your accelerator. ? The 4 mb expansion is a cheap method of getting an A600 to run WHDload games that otherwise some people wouldn't be able to due to cash flow etc. If people are interested in it then let them have it, thats why i will always send feelers out for interest. For this project i will probably create 25 and order more boards for those that want to attempt this themselves. The parts are there... i found one place with 10,000 (yes 10,000) but i had already agreed to a purchase of some from the US. There are a lot of 3rd party distributors which can find the hard to find chips, may cost a bit more but thats what happens once they are not being produced any more. If you want to provide people with these boards then fill your boots, ultimately the end user wins

[cpiac64]

i have a lot of simm 4 mega with tms418160dz -70 are ok, i need desolder or create a pcb with simm slot?

[Etze]

I would gladly take one of those 4 MB RAM expansions...

[majsta]

I understand that lot of people have few Amiga's and one just for the games with 4 megabytes should be enough. Regarding to accelerator, I don't know about the price but it will be opensource so built it I can't tell anything except that yesterday had major progress again. Today maybe we will have accelerator working But don't want to say more. Yes I can produce those mem board but like I said I don't see any point of doing that because this accelerator will replace everything, every mem board you have and every accelerator you have because we might get faster accelerator for Amiga ever, because this concept will support anything from basic Mc68000 to natami...

[cpiac64]

20 expansions in Italy i suppose

[Boboo_SK]

Originally Posted by majsta

Yes I read your test bench when you received the board. But on this picture I see that he used GAL and FPGA device for memory also does not make any sense. I remember that he left one header for further upgrades and on that header on this picture I see CPLD device. clock buffer and level shifter or something. Like I said why use GAL why don't use CPLD device for memory and for solving timing difference between 7.09Mhz clk and new one. Anyhow perfect look, and maybe best thing for Amiga that single person produced. When I look back in time on single thing worked hundreds of people and he managed alone ! But Lets wait I m coming next in line

FuriaRAM not required - 7 MHz timing. GAL includes flexible logic CPU2Amiga. Xilinx has added only much later.

[magnetic]

Originally Posted by mfilos

Making it smaller would be awesome!!!
I really love the small footprint that Boboo used on his Furia S628 and the sandwich FuriaRAM. 10MB in total and an 28MHz 68000 was really nice to have on my spare A600



Anything for the A600 is definitely welcome

Why cant someone put this board into production? Like 50 + units? I think they would sell out quickly..

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by magnetic

Why cant someone put this board into production? Like 50 + units? I think they would sell out quickly..

It is a nice board, open sourced too for the board, the cpu is still available ( in any quantity you want at ~$15) This is first time i seen this board, Wow, nice work!. something else to whet my appetite