Individual Computers - New accelerator cards for A600 & A1200

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by melbourneben!

Jens, I run WB 3.0, will the new version of ACAtune(V15e) resolve the issues with assigning the memory in WB 3.0?

That issue was already fixed in the previous version. We haven't brought it back in this one :-)

Jens

[Seaside]

Some questions.

Is it safe after all to use 80MHz OSC on the ACA630 ?

Can i remove the current CPU and replace it with Ceramic PGA ?

Also can the memory raised to 64 or 128 using same type chips ? Or this has to do with the initial programming ?

When the ACA will become available again ?

Thanks.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Seaside

Is it safe after all to use 80MHz OSC on the ACA630 ?

No, it isn't. See further back in this thread for detailed technical explanation.

Originally Posted by Seaside

Can i remove the current CPU and replace it with Ceramic PGA ?

Yes, you can. Doesn't make sense, but you can.

Originally Posted by Seaside

Also can the memory raised to 64 or 128 using same type chips ? Or this has to do with the initial programming ?

Memory size is hard-coded in the CPLD. Neither the CPLD, nor memory are user-upgradable.

Originally Posted by Seaside

When the ACA will become available again ?

Not in the form that the ACA630 came in, as that was too expensive. I'm thinking of a lower-cost, lower-performance version for the A600.

Jens

[Photon]

Suggestion for a future accel:

- A1200 card with no CPU or memory
- Just a 68060 socket and 1-2 sockets supporting up to 512MB of the abundant PC DDRx memory

This will ensure the prolonged life of high end Amigas while you get rid of the expenditure for CPU and memory.

And you could give a modest rebate if buyers send in working or non-working Apollo cards, then you could get rid of those.

[Mr B]

And the card would of course have a switch / jumper cluster, as well as a flexible clock frequency generator so it could run on both 68040 & 060 CPU's.

However, i see issues here. A buyer with a flaky CPU will inevitably blame the card, the CPU was bought as "working pull" from some asian guy... Makes it a nightmare to support. And the sort of optimization Jens is doing to push the performance from the CPU's would be impossible with a wide variety of CPU & memory combinations.
B!

[vroom6sri]

Jens - So, just coz I can't stand suprises, when you stated earlier that they " heat transfer pads will be fixed for shipping with an Amiga-related item..." does that mean we'll be getting a bonus item of some sort??!?!

Don't get me wrong, the fact that you're making such great hardware is good enough but I was just intrigued by your statement.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Mr B

And the card would of course have a switch / jumper cluster, as well as a flexible clock frequency generator so it could run on both 68040 & 060 CPU's.

No I meant this for the high end. Beyond which there is nothing faster. You get the oscillator for your CPU's speed, and wait states adapt the memory to this speed.

Originally Posted by Mr B

However, i see issues here. A buyer with a flaky CPU will inevitably blame the card,... the CPU was bought as "working pull" from some asian guy... Makes it a nightmare to support.

I have a feeling the only way a card like this will see the light of day is if buyers accept "Individual Computers accept no responsibility for inserted components, card has been testing with this CPU and memory specs". It would save test-time, handling/ordering and outlay for him and reduce his commitment, which might make it happen (I hope! ) At the same time it's not very painful for the user, the card could be made cheap and therefore in volume, and PC RAM costs nothing and it's not that hard to get another used 68060 if one doesn't perform.

That's why he's been building cards only with chips (CPUs and RAMs) that are NOS, and that's why we've gotten 68030 cards and not any 68060 cards.

If we don't want to downgrade to 68030s when all the 68060 cards eventually die, we must support this "I only guarantee the board". (Unless someone else makes such a board or full 68060 accels that come with test CPU and memory, of course.)

Originally Posted by Mr B

And the sort of optimization Jens is doing to push the performance from the CPU's would be impossible with a wide variety of CPU & memory combinations.
B!

While it pays to push slow components to perform at max, there is nothing faster than 68060+modern PC DDR RAM for Amiga, so he'd only need to be as fast as Blizzard/Apollo, and I'm sure he'd easily do that with 10 years newer components without optimizing it to the edge.

I don't see a combination problem that could crop up. Blizzard/Apollo already supports PC memory. CPU timings are history, and there are cheap off-the-shelf chips to talk to a generic PC RAM of the type that he chooses. Even within the type he could support a quite narrow range of RAMs and there would still be thousands of stores that would have it in stock.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Photon

I don't see a combination problem that could crop up. Blizzard/Apollo already supports PC memory.

For which there are memories that simply wont work, or "works" with intermittent issues. Still don't see the problem?

Originally Posted by Photon

CPU timings are history, and there are cheap off-the-shelf chips to talk to a generic PC RAM of the 1 type that he chooses.

I like the attention to detail Jens brings, where timings aren't a "best effort" generic works with anything setting, but something he slaves over to bring us the best performance he can.

Originally Posted by Photon

No I meant this for the high end. Beyond which there is nothing faster.

I saved the first, for last. Your barking up the wrong tree. We'll get emulated 680x0 that will be a lot faster, and compatible with a wider array of software then a top of the line 68060, most likely long before the adaptation of "empty" accelerator cards. I'm not going to be surpriced when someone pulls a chip out of their rear end, that emulates a 68030 couple of 100 MHz. Right now the chips to run it of is to expencive, but they'll end up as NOS soon enough them to.
B!

[mfilos]

Originally Posted by vroom6sri

Jens - So, just coz I can't stand suprises, when you stated earlier that they " heat transfer pads will be fixed for shipping with an Amiga-related item..." does that mean we'll be getting a bonus item of some sort??!?!

Don't get me wrong, the fact that you're making such great hardware is good enough but I was just intrigued by your statement.

Heatsink packaged arrived today
Very well designed and with very good information even for people that never used a heatsink before in their life.



The Amiga-related item is an original Lisa chip that holds the transfer pad in place as you can see from the picture bellow.



Thanks for this Jens

[phl22]

Cooler added?

[Retrofan]

Originally Posted by phl22

Cooler added?

Yes, and it was for free and with another gift... I hate them

[phl22]

so bad?

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Mr B

For which there are memories that simply wont work, or "works" with intermittent issues. Still don't see the problem?

Of course there are RAMs that don't work. You could insert an Apple simm or a way too slow SIMM. The point that you missed is that I had no trouble buying two 32MB SIMMs for 8 EUR for my Apollo. That's it.

Originally Posted by Mr B

I like the attention to detail Jens brings, where timings aren't a "best effort" generic works with anything setting, but something he slaves over to bring us the best performance he can.

I saved the first, for last. Your barking up the wrong tree. We'll get emulated 680x0 that will be a lot faster, and compatible with a wider array of software then a top of the line 68060, most likely long before the adaptation of "empty" accelerator cards. I'm not going to be surpriced when someone pulls a chip out of their rear end, that emulates a 68030 couple of 100 MHz. Right now the chips to run it of is to expencive, but they'll end up as NOS soon enough them to.
B!

You can already do that with a fast PC and WinUAE, or with a PPC Amiga and some software. That, however, is not a continuation of Amiga.

I hope you understand that the reason to buy any hardware from Jens at all is because you want a continuation of Amiga? Because WinUAE can already run software faster than his accels to date and extremely compatible, and with a lot of extras like no need to buy an Indivision for a PC screen.

Let's make it a high end continuation of Amiga, is my simple suggestion

[phl22]

any opinions? my rom 3.0

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Photon

Of course there are RAMs that don't work. You could insert an Apple simm or a way too slow SIMM. The point that you missed is that I had no trouble buying two 32MB SIMMs for 8 EUR for my Apollo. That's it.

YOU had no trouble, so therefor there is no issues, ever. Ok, i get it. In the real world there is still the possability of something being within the right specs, and fully functional, that simply wont play ball with some pieces of hardware. It still happens to this day, that some RAMsticks doesn't work with some motherboards / CPU's.

Originally Posted by Photon

You can already do that with a fast PC and WinUAE, or with a PPC Amiga and some software. That, however, is not a continuation of Amiga.

I'm not sure i follow your reasoning. If you got a accelerator which has a Motorola 68030@50MHz, or if you have a FPGA running the equivalent, your not going to see, hear, feel or imagine anything being different. What actually is different tho is that you can use a faster FPGA, and instead of being limited to the speedgrades that the 68030 actually was produced with, you could run one at 200MHz. (Number picked at random) The only difference here being the FPGA CPU, which as of right now is to expensive. This is NOT emulation in the same way that UAE is. This is using modern hardware to replace hard, or impossible to get bits and pieces to make new hardware for existing Amigas. It's like using a modern piece of ram instead of scavenging old ramsticks, since there simply isn't supply for it. And guess who does all of this?

Originally Posted by Photon

I hope you understand that the reason to buy any hardware from Jens at all is because you want a continuation of Amiga?

Yeah. That guy. He uses modern RAM coz he cant find the old stuff for a good price, and he used a FPGA chip to make a complete system. Not using them for CPU's but for the custom chips, i believe. I have no doubt that once it makes financial sense to make the accelerators using FPGA's he'll make em with FPGA's. And when you buy a accelerator with a FPGA design, you wouldn't know, ever, unless someone told you.
B!

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by Photon

I have a feeling the only way a card like this will see the light of day is if buyers accept "Individual Computers accept no responsibility for inserted components, card has been testing with this CPU and memory specs".

I remember reading that Jens said that he hates receiving support tickets for products that don't work because of other variables. That's why he hates the Apollo accelerators, because they gave lots of problems with his products, and people blamed them instead of thinking that their Apollo accelerator was the real cause behind it.

Knowing that, having users add RAM and CPU by themselves would mean a lot of support tickets like "your card sucks, it doesn't read my RAM", just because it has crappy timings or it's incompatible with the card for some strange reason - that said, I don't foresee Jens EVER going that route.

We have to hope in another Amiga hardware dev, or in a free open-sourced PCB (which should be four-layered to support 68060, iirc?) project and have people build them by themselves

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Mr B

YOU had no trouble, so therefor there is no issues, ever. Ok, i get it. In the real world there is still the possability of something being within the right specs, and fully functional, that simply wont play ball with some pieces of hardware. It still happens to this day, that some RAMsticks doesn't work with some motherboards / CPU's.

It was easy. That means it's easy to get memory for your accelerator. Try getting a replacement memory for current ACA products.

Are you daft for real?

Originally Posted by Mr B

I'm not sure i follow your reasoning. If you got a accelerator which has a Motorola 68030@50MHz, or if you have a FPGA running the equivalent, your not going to see, hear, feel or imagine anything being different. What actually is different tho is that you can use a faster FPGA, and instead of being limited to the speedgrades that the 68030 actually was produced with, you could run one at 200MHz. (Number picked at random) The only difference here being the FPGA CPU, which as of right now is to expensive. This is NOT emulation in the same way that UAE is. This is using modern hardware to replace hard, or impossible to get bits and pieces to make new hardware for existing Amigas. It's like using a modern piece of ram instead of scavenging old ramsticks, since there simply isn't supply for it. And guess who does all of this?

Yeah. That guy. He uses modern RAM coz he cant find the old stuff for a good price, and he used a FPGA chip to make a complete system. Not using them for CPU's but for the custom chips, i believe. I have no doubt that once it makes financial sense to make the accelerators using FPGA's he'll make em with FPGA's. And when you buy a accelerator with a FPGA design, you wouldn't know, ever, unless someone told you.
B!

Now we're talking! I'm all for remaking Amiga chips in modern components, as I've mentioned 1000 times here. But you mentioned emulation, which is more like the PPC way.

However, a 68030 with FPU in FPGA would be hopelessly slow compared to 68060 even at 600 MHz. On top of which this would create a condition where someone would spend years making such a one before a card could be made.

You're replacing the possible with things that aren't here yet, while I'm proposing that a card with sockets that could be made cheaper and in larger volume than a custom card. I would actually buy a 100% compatible humble 68000 CPU and Amiga chipset remade in FPGA the second it was put on the market. It seems you haven't read my passionate posts on this subject, but this is a dream vision for me. However, my suggestion is a different product altogether. It's a CPU board for non-FPGA CPUs.

jbenam: I have heard of Jens' dislike for Apollos and am proposing a replacement to get them off the 'market' and get him in control. Do you know of any better way to make Jens happy?

That said, the ACA series do have support tickets, all the more reason a generic card with narrow specs and no responsibility/limited warranty period should be more attractive for a developer.

The dev could of course sell the cards with CPU and RAM tested and ready, but accept responsibility only for the board as at least the CPU would be a used part. But I think it IS an important point to separate the board from the replacement parts since some time in the future every user would need to replace socketed parts.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Photon

It was easy. That means it's easy to get memory for your accelerator. Try getting a replacement memory for current ACA products.

Replacement memory is quite easy to come buy. A lot more so then the 72 pin variety your so fond of. The process of replacing them is a bit harder, but thats not down to availability, thats down to performance, and eliminating variables that could bring issues to costumers.
But then your not looking for replacement, your looking to change the memory, for some reason or another, trying to prove that 72 pin memories in some arbitrary way is "better".

Originally Posted by Photon

Now we're talking! I'm all for remaking Amiga chips in modern components, as I've mentioned 1000 times here. But you mentioned emulation, which is more like the PPC way.

You do realize that a softcore is a instruction-set running on a CPU other then a 680x0? It's emulating a 680x0.

Originally Posted by Photon

However, a 68030 with FPU in FPGA would be hopelessly slow compared to 68060 even at 600 MHz. On top of which this would create a condition where someone would spend years making such a one before a card could be made.

Years? How do you figure? The softcore is more or less already made, people run everything from 68000 to 68050. The point is that with a flexible design you could simply press a few buttons and go from a compatibility set to another. You need a fast 68000?, load one softcore. Need 68030, load that one. 68060. Well, right now i think you need to develop it first, but yeah, once done, just load that one. The only thing needed is for the FPGA's to drop in price. A lot. It sure wouldn't hurt for faster FPGA's to be available to us either, but for making the equivalent of the current ACA accelerators there are more then enough "oumpf" available today. So the next gen may very well have what it takes for 68040, and so on. It will be a while yet for sure, but it's a lot more likely then barebone accelerators.
B!

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Photon

I have a feeling the only way a card like this will see the light of day is if buyers accept "Individual Computers accept no responsibility for inserted components, card has been testing with this CPU and memory specs". It would save test-time, handling/ordering and outlay for him and reduce his commitment, which might make it happen

Nope, it might not make it happen, it might even make it illegal. Customer rights are clearly outlined in Europe, and the basic idea behind these EU directives is that nothing at all may be sold with no warranties. You have to guarantee that a device is fit for a certain purpose, and plain renaming the purpose does not get you around the laws.
There has been a case in Germany where a "clever businessman" wanted to sell light bulbs as "heat bulbs". Essentially the same that you're trying here: He claims that the purpose is to produce heat, not light, so he wanted to get around the "energy-saving lamps only" directive for any light bulb over 75W that has been in place since last year. Guess what - he failed in court.

I would most probably fail the same way if I declare a card "for viewing purpose only".

Originally Posted by Photon

Even within the type he could support a quite narrow range of RAMs and there would still be thousands of stores that would have it in stock.

Starting from DDR, memories must run at a minimum frequency, and the number of pins to talk to these chips gets higher due to some signals being differential (some even bidirectional-differential, which is not available on any 5V-tolerant CPLD).
However, it does not make sense to use DDR, because their first-access-penalty is not faster than the first-access-penalty of 200MHz SD-Ram, which is what I'm using on my new accelerators. However, it took me ages to dig up that type of memory. Many SD-Ram vendors have specified 200MHz types, but they have never brought it to the market. Even though I'm not running the chips at 200MHz, they still save me a cycle here and there, which would be impossible with off-the-shelve 166MHz types.

Even though I have designed the ACA1230 and ACA1231 cards with as little user options as possible, they still cause an enormous amount of support work. Seeing that even the battery for the RTC causes support work, I would NEVER let the user exchange anything critical like a CPU or memory. Here's where EU laws come in again: If the user has the possibility to make a mistake and it's technically possibe to avoid damage, then the product designer must do it. For me, this would mean that I'd have to build a sensing circuit that automatically sets CPU core voltage if you're upgrading from 68040 to 68060. This would be assimung that I'd include an 800,- EUR tool with every card, because without a PGA-18 puller, you WILL scratch and dent the CPU socket, which essentially de-values the card.

Imagine someone buys a card without a CPU, inserts something that he just happens to have, and then finds out that the card doesn't do what he wants. EU laws permit him to send the card back within 14 days without even saying why - a short note like "please refund" is enough, and the reseller has to take back the card. Can you imagine the kind of hassle if the reseller has to take back a card with a scratched CPU socket? Can you imagine how many customers would accept a card with a scratched socket in the first place? None at all.

I would think that only one person that's reading here has access to a PGA-18 puller. None of the resellers I'm working with has such a tool, and I'm pretty sure that none of them will buy something like that. Is that a bad thing? Surely not. Those of you who are now thinking that EU directives are holding us back should reconsider their opinion. EU directives protect the customer, and it's good that way. You're getting a product that's guaranteed to be fit for the purpose you've bought it for. And if you later find out that you got the wrong idea about the product in the first place, you don't lose any money. To avoid that situation, vendors and resellers must be as honest and as precise as possible in their product description.

Jens

[roy bates]

i agree with what youve said.(the laws are very strict on this matter for a reason)

but surely theres a work around for peaple that have a "known working" cpu,by this i mean anyone who wants to do such a thing could send you the cpu at there cost.(with a list of revisions of mask sets tested by you as a comparison)
then if it dont work with your card,you can simply remove it with your tool and send it back at the cost of the person who sent it to you.(admittedly you have to have someone do the testing)
which is probably the main reason for such a card not being made in the first place.(by this i mean the cost of the cpu)
the testing could be done at the time the card is being tested itself,altough i beleive this could be time consuming so maybe it could be a separate thing done when the card has to have the cpu inserted(this may be counter productive i know as you probably have to contract out a production line for the card assembly,and i dont know wiether you test the cpu sepratley from this)

as for the memory,128-256mb would be great for most peaple wouldent the sdram interface on your aca's work with an 060?just a thought.

[Akira]

I think Jens delivers a LOT as a product developer in ways of customer support, to have to cater for the wishes of an extremely small minority in a way that can only be described as 'artisan'-like.
It's great of him that he even takes time to answer to such propositions. He's too nice. Don't burn him.

Let the guy do what he wants to do, he's making awesome products.
By the way, memory for CD32?....

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by Akira

I think Jens delivers a LOT as a product developer in ways of customer support, to have to cater for the wishes of an extremely small minority in a way that can only be described as 'artisan'-like.
It's great of him that he even takes time to answer to such propositions. He's too nice. Don't burn him.

Let the guy do what he wants to do, he's making awesome products.
By the way, memory for CD32?....

yes i know im not the most positive person on the planet,but lets face it. we are all a small minority

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by roy bates

yes i know im not the most positive person on the planet,but lets face it. we are all a small minority

Some people call it being realistic. And i havent really seen any "negatives" from you, just a realistic take on the positives.
B!

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Some people call it being realistic. And i havent really seen any "negatives" from you, just a realistic take on the positives.
B!

i'm just admitting to other post's in other threads where i say things i cant take back,because thats the way i felt at the time.being human doesent make me any wiser

i dont dislike jens(or anyone else for that matter) its just i dont understand some things that have happened in the past,which are probably best left alone.(and no i dont expect jens to be answerable for anything and i dont want to re-hash that at all)

[DonMac]

New to the forum so: Hi everyone

Yesterday I received the ACA1231 from Vesalia. It is a version with the new heatsink mounted.

After installing the card and watch some demos I experienced the first guru 8000 0002 message. This is after about 15 minutes. After a reboot it happened more frequently so I turned the a1200 off.

I reinserted the ACA1231 but after some time the same issues occurred.

I did a lot of research since yesterday (also on a1k.org but my german is worse than my english) and found there are still some problems with the card.

The thing is that when playing a demo/game there are no problems. But after returning to the ClassicWB (v27) the guru's appear. I did preform a new installation on a spare CF card in the hope there was a software error. No luck.

The mainboard is a Rev.B version and the E123C and E125C timerfixes are nor present on the board.

Is it just an incompatible board or is there any hope for a fix?

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by DonMac

After installing the card and watch some demos I experienced the first guru 8000 0002 message. This is after about 15 minutes. After a reboot it happened more frequently so I turned the a1200 off.

Ahaaa! That's a very valuable hint, thank you very much. This points to a premature trigger of the ACA1231's watchdog, which gives a bus error in order to let the card continue to work, although an unsupported function code is being put on the external bus.

What screenmode are you using on your WB?

Jens

[DonMac]

Hi Jens,

Glad to help. Hope we can give you enough hints for the solution

The screenmode is plain old: PAL:High Res

Never tried it on a higher resolution. I will try that this evening.

Also the guru's appear when exiting to the ClassicWB. Not while playing a game or demo.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by DonMac

The screenmode is plain old: PAL:High Res

Never tried it on a higher resolution. I will try that this evening.

Higher resolution will not enable more DMA slots, but more colours will. How many colours are you using?

Jens

[DonMac]

Resolution is : 640 x 256
Colours are set to 256

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Akira

By the way, memory for CD32?....

Don't burn him!! Hehe.


Schoenfeld, thanks for responding

Hm... you have thoroughly explained how EU directives makes CPU cards with CPU and memory sockets impossible. You may have your own reasons for saying this, but if it were not false, zero instead of millions of motherboards for PCs, server blades, etc etc would be sold each year in the EU.

You exaggerated my meaning to say no warranty. But like a motherboard manufacturer, you would simply declare compliance with certain standards and guarantee the board and the components on it. (Now, don't get me wrong. I know you don't have the turnaround of a PC store and local stores handle the warranty stuff on behalf of the manufacturer, etc.)

I think most Amiga users approve of your product decisions and understand we have to pay a premium to get specialty hardware. At the same time we're understanding towards the hardware and software fixes for the products and follow your development with great interest, and I think you handle the warranties professionally.


The reason for asking for socketed CPU and memory is a totally different one.

An Amiga hardware future.

With such extremely hard to find, soldered RAMs as yours and soldered CPUs, when the warranty is out a failing card is dead and useless. If someone hasn't made a replacement card, big memory and CPU usable for relatively modern applications is out of the question. When that happens, the Amiga will be like the other home computers and retro consoles - usable only for retro stuff until the mobo fails.

Now, retro is fine with me but expandability kept alive will extend the interest in the platform for serious use, which is important. And I don't mean being able to kinda surf the web or kinda play a short specially prepared movie or song. I mean newly developed programs, the life of a platform is defined by this. With 80s specs, only the same type of programs can be made, but with more modern specs, new types of programs can be made.

I love the big memory of the ACA models! But in terms of specs they are less modern than f.ex. my PPS040. Part of 'modern specs' is to be able to go to a store and buy memory. While losing 1%, 5% or 10% of the speed of the 68060 because of some first-access wait state does not make it less modern.

I wouldn't mind if you supplied the cards with new 512MB DDR RAM and used, tested 68060. As long as I could replace them easily if they fail, my beloved old platform would retain its expanded modern specs. I'd love a comment on how you feel about this!

If the used CPU (as 68060 can't be bought new) is a problem I have a business idea from the 70s on how they solved it then. But this is a tall enough wall of text for now I think.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Photon

Hm... you have thoroughly explained how EU directives makes CPU cards with CPU and memory sockets impossible.

Impossible for me and my resellers to handle, yes.

Originally Posted by Photon

You may have your own reasons for saying this, but if it were not false, zero instead of millions of motherboards for PCs, server blades, etc etc would be sold each year in the EU.

With quantities high enough that the stuff is counted in sea freight containers, not "number of units". In that market, you have actual stores where customers can walk into and ask a technician. I don't know about GGS Data in Sweden - do they have a store with proper hours and stuff? If they don't, then ASB computer in Spain is the only one where you can walk into with your Amiga in a bag and drop it off with the words "please repair - the caps must be replaced".

Further, all those PC mainboards have ZIF sockets. I tried to get those in PGA18, but was not successful. This leaves us with the 800-EUR puller tool.

Originally Posted by Photon

You exaggerated my meaning to say no warranty. But like a motherboard manufacturer, you would simply declare compliance with certain standards and guarantee the board and the components on it.

So I declare compatibility and have to deal with used and not-known-good-CPUs, inserted and extracted without the proper tools? And I have to deal with the fake print on the 68060 CPUs of DCE-made Blizzard cards?

Originally Posted by Photon

With such extremely hard to find, soldered RAMs as yours

Granted, it's 200MHz types, but I won't slow down just because you want to use the memories unsoldered from a DSL router (yes, they're the same pinout and mostly the same size).

Originally Posted by Photon

and soldered CPUs,

Not planned.

Originally Posted by Photon

While losing 1%, 5% or 10% of the speed of the 68060 because of some first-access wait state does not make it less modern.

I beg to differ. I think it does make it more modern if you can run the processor at the speed that it can actually execute instructions. You are right about the performance gain from fast memory access: eliminating one waitstate from the first-access penalty gave about an 8.5% increase in speed for the ACA1231 (comparison to ACA1230-42 with the difference in CPU clock factored in).

Originally Posted by Photon

I wouldn't mind if you supplied the cards with new 512MB DDR RAM

Like I wrote earlier: DDR is out of the question for simple electrical reasons: I can't talk to it with a 5V-tolerant CPLD. I'd have to use an FPGA with multiple IO voltages, and I really don't want to do that.

Originally Posted by Photon

and used, tested 68060. As long as I could replace them easily if they fail,

Again: Wishful thinking. Do you have an idea why the PGA18 puller is so expensive? It's a "built to order" thing. The company made the first unit of this century for me.

Originally Posted by Photon

If the used CPU (as 68060 can't be bought new) is a problem I have a business idea from the 70s on how they solved it then. But this is a tall enough wall of text for now I think.

You might want to open a new thread for that, because this one is a news thread about the ACA1230, ACA630 and ACA1231.

Jens

[DonMac]

Jens,

I installed the CF card from my A600 (ACA630 + A604 and very stable) in the A1200 with ACA1231.
Same resolution but only 16 colour mode. The same guru 8000 0002 errors.

I installed the A1200 CWB CF card and I have put the colour range of the A1200 and ACA1231 to 16. After a while the same guru errors. Its reboots and after a few seconds, only opening the workbench partition, guru 8000 0002 task 081ab070. Repeating the actions results in the same guru but different tasks errors 081ab038 and 081bb6e8.

Hope this information helps.

[Schoenfeld]

the #2 guru indeed points to a bus error. Now let's find out if that bus error is caused by the watchdog triggering too soon, or by an error of the CPU seeing random bus errors.

Could you check with the CPU command if the computer sees an FPU (where in reality there is none)?

thanks,
Jens

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

I don't know about GGS Data in Sweden - do they have a store with proper hours and stuff? If they don't, then ASB computer in Spain is the only one where you can walk into with your Amiga in a bag and drop it off with the words "please repair - the caps must be replaced".

GGS-Data in Gothenburg (Göteborg, Sweden) Has a visitors address, and opening hours (10-18) But i would have to admit that i have NO idea as to if they could actually service your hardware if you drop it of. It's hardly relevant to this topic regardless. The fact remains, you as a manufacturer have to provide service and support, and it's simply not possible to provide at the minimum level required by law for a complex piece of hardware as a socketed bit of hardware would be. As it's not even providing any bonus features, it's not even a issue. I for one is more then convinced that we'll see more hardware coming from you, including accelerators. For those that want a 68060, there is a perfectly sane option. Buy a second hand unit. At least it's likely to come with the required CPU... To bad they will be Apollos, don't ya think? ;- )

Anyways, thank you for all your efforts, keep up the good work.
B!

[DonMac]

Output of the CPU command:
68030 (INST: Cache Burst) (DATA: Cache Burst)
This is with ACAtune -maprom ** -cache on -burst on

Also tried the maprom only option:
Output of the CPU command:
68030 (INST: Cache Burst) (DATA: Cache NoBurst)

With only the maprom function enabled I experience the same guru's after a while.
ACAtune version is 1.5e

[mfilos]

Why are you using double asterisk on maprom declaration? You have a physical 1MB Custom ROM installed in your Amiga?

[Schoenfeld]

I've had a lucky shot with the logic analyzer this morning. I'm nearly at the spot where I can provoke a false memory access (respectively a false access termination). It seems to be a statistical thing where Gayle fails, and some A1200 boards without timing mods trigger that Gayle fault more often.

non-technical: hang in there :-)

Jens

[christianlucio]

"After installing the card and watch some demos I experienced the first guru 8000 0002 message. This is after about 15 minutes. After a reboot it happened more frequently so I turned the a1200 off."
Exactly the same problem I have ! Only thing I can add: I have the feeling it occurs very often when opening a directory subfolder window. It has not occured during programs or games so far.

[DonMac]

Originally Posted by mfilos

Why are you using double asterisk on maprom declaration? You have a physical 1MB Custom ROM installed in your Amiga?

Really don't know

The original A1200 ROM is 512kb, but when I'm using "maprom *" the machine doesn't start. The machine has a kickrom switch (1.3 and 3.1). Think thats why I must use the 1mb option?

[DonMac]

Originally Posted by christianlucio

Exactly the same problem I have ! Only thing I can add: I have the feeling it occurs very often when opening a directory subfolder window. It has not occured during programs or games so far.

Thats it to the spot. Exact the same issues.