Putty Install Update

[tomead]

I have tried to use the old Mr larmer install for Putty and the installer doesn`t work with any of the three versions I have. Any chance Stingray or anybody else would be willing to have a look at updating the install. The versions I have are:

A600 bundle version called "Putty"
Retail release "Putty"
GHB Gold re-release called "Silly Putty"

If one version could be supported it would be another game I have installed.

[StingRay]

Recoding the Putty slave from scratch is already on my todo list as I know about the problems with the old patch.

[Codetapper]

Stingray: Is there any reason you don't just get the source code for the existing patches and alter them?

I personally think it's a bit disrespectful to simply wipe out Mr Larmer's work on Putty when surely you could alter his existing slave - especially so since he's dead.

And those "fake" installs that are basically the generic slave I have no problem replacing, but a proper slave that needs an update is another.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Stingray: Is there any reason you don't just get the source code for the existing patches and alter them?

Why should I do that? I would gain nothing doing that since I would have to redo most of the patches anyway. The time I would need to understand the patch someone else did I can as well spend doing it my way, specially when the original patches are very old.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

I personally think it's a bit disrespectful to simply wipe out Mr Larmer's work on Putty when surely you could alter his existing slave - especially so since he's dead.

It isn't disrespectful to update his work when people have problems with his patches since he can't do it anymore for obvious reasons. Besides, I always mention the original coder in my updated installs! However, if you have a problem with that feel free to do it your way and I won't do anything to the Putty slave.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

And those "fake" installs that are basically the generic slave I have no problem replacing, but a proper slave that needs an update is another.

Following your logic I should not have updated the Goal! slave either then. So far the only one complaining is you however.

[Codetapper]

By your logic if there was a bug in a highly technical patch like SWIV, Parasol Stars or Unreal you would recode the entire thing too as "you would have to understand the patch someone else did". Isn't that what source is for?

Also why do you bother to include the source with any of your installs? Surely for other patchers it'd be just as difficult to read your source code as anyone else and so they may as well scrap it and start over. Or can you not see your double standard?

Most of the time alternate versions are very easy to adapt anyway.

Do what you like with Putty...

[seuden]

Why can't StingRay create a new slave and offer it as an alternative?

Much respect to Mr larmer for the original slave but if his slave isn't working 100% then anyone else should be able to offer their version.

It really pisses me off that just because one other person created the slave first means that no one else can have a go without permission or "disrespecting" the original slave creator.

As long as it is an original piece of work and not using any source code from the original coders slave then I can't see why us WHDLoad registered users should have to go without a better working slave just because of bragging rights!

We pay for WHDLoad and if StingRay or others are offering their service for FREE then we should embrace it.

We should be working towards better slaves not who can do it first!!

[Codetapper]

Well nobody has actually mentioned any problems with the old installer, other than there are other versions of the game, and as I said above, usually (not always) it's a simple matter of testing the CRC or a particular value and applying a different patchlist. Adapting the existing code to a patchlist is very simple. It's also absolute madness to start from scratch when his patch finds some bizarre fault such as:

- bug removed which set wrong palette in level 13

Stingray would no doubt miss that bug unless playtesting the entire game. Mr Larmer has already found it! I've attached the source code. This looks a very simple one to update.

If someone wanted to add CD32 button support to one of Stingray's patches, would anyone in their right mind recode the entire thing? Of course not. The source for almost all the slaves are available and so I don't see why you would waste time recreating the slave from scratch.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

By your logic if there was a bug in a highly technical patch like SWIV, Parasol Stars or Unreal you would recode the entire thing too as "you would have to understand the patch someone else did". Isn't that what source is for?

Yes I would if that means I can do updates/bugfixes faster.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Also why do you bother to include the source with any of your installs? Surely for other patchers it'd be just as difficult to read your source code as anyone else and so they may as well scrap it and start over. Or can you not see your double standard?

I include my sources for people to have a look at and for other patchers so they can update any of my patches easily if they feel like doing it. I don't force anyone to use them and if someone would redo any of my patches when I'm not around anymore I definitely would not mind at all.
How that is double standard is beyond me but I'm sure you can explain it as usual.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Do what you like with Putty...

You can do it now, I won't touch any old installs anymore, seeing that once again instead of minding your own business you start some drama. Some things apparently just never change.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Well nobody has actually mentioned any problems with the old installer, other than there are other versions of the game, and as I said above, usually (not always) it's a simple matter of testing the CRC or a particular value and applying a different patchlist. Adapting the existing code to a patchlist is very simple. It's also absolute madness to start from scratch when his patch finds some bizarre fault such as:

- bug removed which set wrong palette in level 13

See above.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Stingray would no doubt miss that bug unless playtesting the entire game.

Of course I would because I have no clue what I'm doing when it comes to patching games.

[ascp]

Open Code being forked, leading to inspiration, rewritten, terrified by, changed = good and dynamic. Don't see why the original author should feel disrespectful by that, as long as he's attributed in some way. Code should be plentiful and alive, as a amiga-coder wannabe i would gladly have seen 2 different implementations of something, to learn from. More code can only be good in this small community.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by StingRay

Yes I would if I that means I can do updates/bugfixes faster.

Harry spent over 40 hours coding his patch for Unreal. I suppose you could redo that work from scratch in about 5 mins flat?

I bet you could redo all the Readysoft games in practically no time at all.

I suppose the SWIV scorebar fix with interrupt trigger in the copperlist, modifications to the memory routine along with all the other fixes are another 5 minute job for you.

How about the mega protected Parasol Stars? Is that another one you'd redo because you can do updates faster?

Disassembling slaves to replicate their work is lame when the source is available. You are unbelievably arrogant thinking you can redo any install faster without source than with it.

I include my sources for people to have a look at and for other patchers so they can update any of my patches easily if they feel like doing it.

How is that any different to Mr Larmer sending his source so that someone else can update his patch since he's not around anymore? You don't even feel the need to read his source, so why should anyone read yours?

I don't force anyone to use them and if someone would redo any of my patches when I'm not around anymore I definitely would not mind at all.
How that is double standard is beyond me but I'm sure you can explain it as usual.

The double standard (since you can't work it out yourself) is that you think your source is so useful for others yet Mr Larmer's isn't when they are both readily available.

You can do it now, I won't touch any old installs anymore, seeing that once again instead of minding your own business you start some drama. Some things apparently just never change.

Yes, you haven't changed your "throw the toys out of the cot" mentality when someone dares to disagree with you.

[MrCheese]

I don't understand why StingRay is being attacked for his methodology. The OP is the person who misses out.

Software is a very personal thing. Ask 10 developers how to do something and you will get 10 different answers. So long as the required result is provided, who cares?

[seuden]

My point exactly.

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Harry spent over 40 hours coding his patch for Unreal. I suppose you could redo that work from scratch in about 5 mins flat?

Show me where I wrote that instead of posting such nonsense.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

I bet you could redo all the Readysoft games in practically no time at all.

Show me where I wrote that instead of posting such nonsense.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

I suppose the SWIV scorebar fix with interrupt trigger in the copperlist, modifications to the memory routine along with all the other fixes are another 5 minute job for you.

Show me where I wrote that instead of posting such nonsense.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

How about the mega protected Parasol Stars? Is that another one you'd redo because you can do updates faster?

"Mega protected", sure... I do have a decrypter for that game, I'd like to see YOU coding that instead of posting nonsense here.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Disassembling slaves to replicate their work is lame when the source is available. You are unbelievably arrogant thinking you can redo any install faster without source than with it.

The only über-arrogant one here is YOU. First, I don't disassemble slaves, so just more of your usual nonsense, nothing new here. Also, when will you start telling me

- which assembler I should use
- how I should format my sources
- how I should comment my sources

etc pp.? Since apparently only your way is the right way, anyone who's doing things differently is lame and arrogant. Nice joke.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

How is that any different to Mr Larmer sending his source so that someone else can update his patch since he's not around anymore? You don't even feel the need to read his source, so why should anyone read yours?

Oh dear, so much nonsense, it's unbelievable. I don't care if anyone reads my sources. I included them with my installs and that's it. What people do with them is nothing of my concern.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

The double standard (since you can't work it out yourself) is that you think your source is so useful for others yet Mr Larmer's isn't when they are both readily available.

Awesome, more nonsense.

Originally Posted by Codetapper

Yes, you haven't changed your "throw the toys out of the cot" mentality when someone dares to disagree with you.

It is you who hasn't changed one bit. You feel you need to tell anyone how to do things right. Quite funny seeing that you couldn't even decrypt Tearaway Thomas and had to ask someone else for help and even claimed that it is not possible to decrypt the game using code.

I would happily recode YOUR slave too, decrypting the game properly instead of including the binary. Yes, since you said I'm arrogant I guess I can act like it.

I just don't get why you don't mind your own business. Instead I have to waste time replying to your nonsense here, "thanks" for that!

Originally Posted by MrCheese

I don't understand why StingRay is being attacked for his methodology. The OP is the person who misses out.

I'm used to it. It's not the first time he did that and probably won't be the last time either. I'm sure people will appreciate that I won't update old installs because of his behaviour.

[lolafg]

i really don't understand why Stingray is being attacked like this , he is doing all those installs for Free and make a lot of people happy , if a slave done by another person can't be updated or redone because it doesn't work as it should so a lot wouldn't work !...and finally whdload users wouldn't be happy no ?

[Retroplay]

As long as the original authors are being credited, which they are in StingRays installs, I can't see the problem either.

[MrCheese]

I've always noted that StingRay is respectful to original authors in his work, adding credit where due.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by StingRay

Show me where I wrote that instead of posting such nonsense.

I asked if there was a bug in a highly technical patch would recode the entire thing and you said:

Originally Posted by StingRay

Yes I would if that means I can do updates/bugfixes faster.

You can do future updates (slightly) faster with your own code, so by that logic you would recode every single slave.

Either you have at least 40 hours to waste on Unreal to re-create Harry's work, or you think you can do it faster. And by your next (illogical) statement suggests you can do it faster as you don't spend time understanding their work:

Originally Posted by StingRay

The time I would need to understand the patch someone else did I can as well spend doing it my way, specially when the original patches are very old.

And here was me thinking that the source code for the WHDLoad installs is actually in English and contains normal 68k assembler commands that most programmers (except you it seems) can read.

Your flawed logic says that you'd spend so much time trying to understand existing source code that it's quicker to rewrite it.

If you like, I can comment the Putty source code for you since Mr Larmer has used confusing (to you) labels like Load, Decrunch etc...

"Mega protected", sure... I do have a decrypter for that game, I'd like to see YOU coding that instead of posting nonsense here.

It's a simple cost/benefit ratio. You consider it a good use of 7 hours to code a decrypter, Galahad decided a memory snapshot of the vital part was adequate.

It is you who hasn't changed one bit. You feel you need to tell anyone how to do things right. Quite funny seeing that you couldn't even decrypt Tearaway Thomas and had to ask someone else for help and even claimed that it is not possible to decrypt the game using code.

I would happily recode YOUR slave too, decrypting the game properly instead of including the binary. Yes, since you said I'm arrogant I guess I can act like it.

Your slave would take longer to load since you have to decrypt it, so you would spend 7 hours to make a slower to load patch that behaves identically to mine. Really efficient use of time. What next, rewrite the entire games from scratch?

I'm used to it. It's not the first time he did that and probably won't be the last time either. I'm sure people will appreciate that I won't update old installs because of his behaviour.

I've heard your idle threats before, this is nothing new from you.

Originally Posted by lolafg

if a slave done by another person can't be updated or redone because it doesn't work as it should so a lot wouldn't work

Nobody has reported any problems with the Putty install not working. It runs fine on my computer. There are some alternate versions that can be adapted with the existing install, I've even uploaded the source code. This rubbish about "can't be updated" is just nonsense.

[Retro-Nerd]

There are 6 bug reports/issues on Mantis for Putty. This is quite a silly discussion for grown-ups. Just another pointless Codetapper vs Stingray flame war.

[skan]

Yeah, this thread is full of pointless stuff indeed.
But none coming from Stingray anyway.

[Retro-Nerd]

That's true, but it ends always like this.