Choosing the right Accelerator

[DonAmiga]

Hi, All

Have been looking to get the right, Fast Ram Accelerator, For my A1200 with 4GB HD, I've seen one in well known Amiga shop comes with 16MB, and I have also seen what looks to be a Fine Looking one Amibay with a Choice of MB.

As these can be a few quid, want to make the right decision

I am a new member to Amibay, so would be my first purchase.

Any Thoughts on the mater would be much appreciated

[Zetr0]

@DonAmiga

Hiyas there, there are a few types of accelerators that you should have an idea of what they offer you in terms of price and performance.

Firstly the Amiga A1200 have an 020 cpu @ 14mhz. This is essentially crippled as it has to wait for the custom chips in thier access of chip ram.

Amiga Speed (APRX) 1.1 MIPS (STOCK)



Fast Ram (ONLY) accelerators (european prices between £25 - £45)

these have a maximum capacity of 8MB on the A1200, and will essentially double its speed as the CPU has its own RAM to work in.

Some makes of these cards can offer an FPU (floating point Unit) that will speed up complex floating point arithmatic.. very very few games need this... infact only a few applications need it at all..

FPU speeds can range from 14mhz (syncronus to the motherboard) or upto 50mhz (asyncronus)

heres a list of (23) A1200 Fast Ram Cards

Amiga Speed (APRX) 2.5 MIPS



CPU and Fast Ram (Type 1)(european prices between £45 - £75)

These usually range from an 020cpu @28mhz to an 030cpu at 41mhz (unless modified)
The 020cpu and 030 cpu are very closely related in performance at the same frequencey.

Type 1 CPU Acclerator cards are locked to a maimum 8MB of fast RAM and cannot go any higher, so if you want lots of RAM then Fast RAM Cards and Type 1 Accelerators wont really be for you.

Most Type 1 Accelerator cards have can have an FPU (Syncronus and or Asyncronus) with the motherboard speed.

list of (3) 020 based cards

030 based Cards (8mb Max Fast)

• Apollo 1230 Turbo LC
  M-Tec 1230
  T1230 (Viper)
  T1230 LC (Viper IV)
  Turbo Jet 1230
  

Its important to note that using 8MB with these cards will negate the use of the PCMCIA port as this over-writes it reserved memory, obviously putting the card into 4MB then the PCMCIA will work comftably


Amiga Speed (APRX) 3.5 to 8 MIPS



CPU and Fast Ram (Type 2)(european prices between £75 - £350)

These cards normally start with an 030 cpu from 33mhz and upwards, there are many flavours of cards but lets look at basics

an 030 CPU card @ 50mhz will achieve about 9.1 MIPS
list of all 030 cards - ignore the cards from the previous list

an 040 CPU card @ 25mhz will achieve about 18.1 MIPS
List of 040 cards for the A1200 - a lot of 040/060 cards are interchangeable with the CPU so expect the same card released with either an 040 or 060 cpu.

an 060 CPU card @ 50mhz will achieve about 60.4MIPS (when properly used)
List of 060 cards for the A1200

Type 2 accelerators can usally use a mimium of 32MB of Fast RAM, however depending on the card, it can use upto 128MB* of fast Ram (this is something you never get tired of when playing in workbench I can say!)

040@33mzh and 060@50mhz+ CPU equipped Type 2 cards really belong to a super-class, these cpu's also have an internal FPU and MMU (well some dont so make sure you ask) they are amazingly fast compared to a stock unit or even an 030@50mhz - however in the case of the 040 there are some compatability issues with older software and insofar as the 060 they can run software that too fast to play/use.

*]in the case of the Blizzad 030,040 and 060 range of cards there exists a Blizzard SCSI module (Mk IV), this module allowes for another 128MB of fast RAM to be added (a total of 256MB).


Amiga Speed (APRX) 8 to 100 MIPS



Now, there is one other class left the Type 3 Hyper Class


CPU and Fast Ram (Type 3) - Hyper Class -(european prices between £350 - £750)

Blizzard PPC card one card - many configurations

This class is reserved for the 040/060 + PPC accelerators these have two processors on the card *upto 330mhz PPC CPU* and an 040@25 / 060@50 or higher motorola CPU

these cards accept upto 256MB of ram and are incredibly powerfull! some have onboard Fast SCSI 2/3 compatible controllers as well as a MiniPCI port for other expansions.

lest be said ... these cards are NOT cheap LOL!

Amiga Speed (APRX) Sh!t loads!

[Adropac2]

That's thorough Zetro

I have a 4mb Elbox ram expansion that is very iffy if you want to take a look at it.It doesn't have the capacitor on it but has always been this way and does work when it wants to

Yours if you like to maybe fix and keep or pass on to someone else

[Zetr0]

@Adropac2

LOL, seems you suffer from insomnia as well =)

tell you what if you want I can give it a go and fix it, should that it work I can send it back =)

hit me up on PM, I am sure between us (and a little luck) we can make a happy amiga user out there =D

[mully]

Great little summary Zetro. In the end, the decision depends on what you want to do with the A1200. For me, a type 1 020 + 4mb will allow authentic whdload fun and messing about with low intensity apps. Winuae deals with everything else, fast and for no cost.

[NovaCoder]

I'm not sure if you're right about the PCMCIA conflict bit Zetr0 my good man. It effects fast ram only cards, not so sure about the ones that have a CPU all of their own.

[coze]

it depends on the make of the accelerator. Some makers went cheapstakes and share the address lines of the CPU and Mobo, so they made cards with 030 but not PCMCIA compatible ...

http://amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=120

[fitzsteve]

It really depends on what you want to do with your A1200.

If you just want to play WHDLoad Games then the M-TEC/Viper 1230's are nice little cards, ideal for this type of machine. Being inexpensive is also a bonus, think of these as an entry level Accelerator for the A1200 and are not much more expensive then just a Ram expansion.

If you want to explore workbench a little more, add PCMCIA networking, CDRom and run an OS such as OS3.9 then I would suggest thinking about at least a Blizzard 1230 or simular. (I have a Typhoon 1230 @ 40mhz with onboard SCSI.) Its not quite as fast as the Blizzard but having the SCSI chip is a real bonus becuase I've setup and external SCSI port on the back on my A1200 so I can use the CDRom and free up the PCMCIA port for my Network card

After this as you'll see from Zetr0's post the sky's the limit! I have an Apollo 1240 in my A1200T and its really fast around workbench but a Zetr0 says there are some compatibility problems, I've notice many WHDLoad games quit with errors but for me its not a problem because I have the Desktop A1200 to fall back on. If this will be your sole machine then maybe an 040 isn't the best option.

Good luck with your purchase!

Steve.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by coze

it depends on the make of the accelerator. Some makers went cheapstakes and share the address lines of the CPU and Mobo, so they made cards with 030 but not PCMCIA compatible ...

http://amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=120

The M-Tec 1230 IS PCMCIA compatible with 8MB fastram, i use it daily. But some guys in a German forum verfied that the PCMCIA port (+8MB fast) doesn't work properly with KS 3.1 Escom Amigas. No problems here with my KS 3.0 A1200.

[DonAmiga]

Hi, Thanks Zetr0, great links and information also like to thank everyone for chipping In.

The A1200,(workbench 3.0) will be my main machine so would want to get the best I can afford, dont want to have to upgrade down the line. also hope to get a wireless card soon, and would like to progress to more than just playing games. Should have stuck with it years ago, but going to stick with it now.


The other thing need to ask, with Amibay, I take it you can just jump in ask some questions without stepping on someone's toes, and if a note of interest has been sent? Also how dose the paypal work here, dose the seller send you invoice? I have read through the rules but just want to make sure I go about thinks the right-way

Thanks Again

[Zetr0]

@DonAmiga

I shall send you a PM on AmiBay, explaining how AmiBay can help =D

[DyLucke]

I wouldn't reccomend you anything below a 030/50 ... As Master Zetr0 said,
lower end 030's have a limited RAM and they will interfere with your PCMCIA port,
and this port is the only effective way to exchange files with your other miggies,
MacMini's or PeeCees.

So i would stand for a full fledged 030/50 that has a good balance between performance
and price.

Or i would squeeze my pocket a bit more and go for a 040/25 or 040/33.

040/40's and 060's are really expensive cards, but you'll be able to run
even the most resource-hungry demo in the scene.

I own one Bliz 030 /50 and other Apollo 040 /33...
Second one is more than twice powerful than the first one.

However i find the Bliz enough for most of tasks and it comes for a more or less fair price. But if you manage to get your hands over a 040 /25 you won't regret about it. Specially if you like your miggy to perform really good on emulation.
Believe me.

[Zetr0]

@DyLucke


What emulators do you use? and how would you rate them?

I have used the speky emualtor and thought that was pretty good, the C64 even on my 060 was poor to be honest (although we are going back 1998/9)



@Novacoder


for the most part you are completely correct, - most 030 cards have their memory mapped to 32bit addressing space, however out of the 34 known types of 030 accelerator card 5 of them have known comflicts with the PCMCIA as these map their memory to the 24bit addressing space - as such this conflicts with the PCMCIA.

Its interesting that Retro Nerds The M-Tec 1230 seems PCMCIA compatible with 8MB fastram under KS3.0 - if I am not mistaken KS3.1 has an auto-addmem routine for memory on the trapdoor... I wonder if this asserts the memory twice, and buggers up the addressing space for the PCMCIA port..... hmmmm

I have an M-Tec 1230 here which I got from steve to test certain things, one of them was the PCMCIA port in regards to network cards and CF HDD's

So I shall see what can be done under 3.1 and 3.0 - its like a mini adventure =D

[DonAmiga]

This is All Great.

I keeping an eye on the one I've seen on Amibay, dont now if I should post up which one it is, or just keep quiet for the now, there may some interest in it. It certainly looks good.

Zetro that PM you suggested on how Amibay could help with purchase would be great Thanks.

It seems like there's a few to chose from will defiantly be looking at the top end of the scale, which runs smooth and reliable. I do use the PCMCIA for transferring between Amiga to PC.

running late for work so I'll check back later,

Thanks All

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

The M-Tec 1230 IS PCMCIA compatible with 8MB fastram, i use it daily. But some guys in a German forum verfied that the PCMCIA port (+8MB fast) doesn't work properly with KS 3.1 Escom Amigas. No problems here with my KS 3.0 A1200.

Is that true and what about other cards?

And what the Reason for working with 3.0 and not 3.1?

[DonAmiga]

What do all think I should change up to 3.1 from 3.0

[Zetr0]

I have upgraded all my Amiga's to 3.1 =)

it has better overall all support,

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Is that true and what about other cards?

And what the Reason for working with 3.0 and not 3.1?

No clue, i own only a M-Tec 1230/42Mhz and two Commodore A1200 (KS 3.0). And the card works without PCMCIA troubles with 8 MB fastram. But it's known, that the Escom boards have problems with some turbo cards. Can't verify the M-Tec for Commodore A1200 machines with KS 3.1.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

No clue, i own only a M-Tec 1230/42Mhz and two Commodore A1200 (KS 3.0). And the card works without PCMCIA troubles with 8 MB fastram. But it's known, that the Escom boards have problems with some turbo cards. Can't verify the M-Tec for Commodore A1200 machines with KS 3.1.

Thanks for the info maybe someone can shed some light on why the problems with Escom/3.1.

[Zetr0]

I am sensing a disturbence in the force... its exciting =D

@Boo Boo

I tihnk this is more a 3.1 ROM issue than a motherboard issue.

@Retro-Nerd

I have the Mtec T1230 (viper) 28mhz Version, is this the same varient as yours?


@thread

I know of one card 32bit addressed space 030 card that needs a firmware update or it wont work under 3.1. (DKB Cobra)

its entirely possible that the M-TEC has its memory address in the 32bit space (above the 24bit) and hence doesn't conflict, however with KS3.1 this might be an issue.

interesting indeed... hell I might give it a go after diiner..


It would be intersting to see what OS3.1 strings it up as compared OS3.0

now... I think of it I vaguely remember that there is a fast ram card that needs software to "AddMEM" under 3.0 - however under 3.1 this is done automatically...

I wonder if this KS3.1 feature could be the problem faced by the chap who tried it out on escom A1200