WTB - A1200 Memory upgrade

[fitzsteve]

Hi as the title says I am in the market for a memory upgrade 2/4/8mb doesent need to be an accelerator just want the fast memory for now.

Thanks,

Steve.

[prowler]

Hi Steve,

Have a look here (Analogic A1200 8MB Memory Upgrade - £49.45 delivered).

[fitzsteve]

Thanks, was hoping to get a used one for about half that price but thats not bad for new kit. Will keep that in mind!

By the way if anyone is selling I have the ram just need the board.

Steve.

[Cammy]

Is there any more information about the Analogic A1200 RAM expansion? Does it have 8MB built onto it, or does it have SIMM slots? Does it have a Real-Time Clock? FPU socket? SCSI connector? Is it PCMCIA-friendly, and can it reconfigure to 5.5MB when the PCMCIA slot is in use?

I think an A1200 RAM card needs to have most of these (except SIMM slots if it has 8MB on-board). SCSI isn't that important, but a RTC is!

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Cammy

Is there any more information about the Analogic A1200 RAM expansion?

Highly unlikely it is anything other than a second hand unit.

Originally Posted by Cammy

SCSI connector?

The only A1200 RAM card I can think of which had SCSI was the Apollo A1200

Originally Posted by Cammy

Is it PCMCIA-friendly

It is impossible for a RAM card to be PCMCIA friendly and still have 8Mbytes.

Originally Posted by Cammy

and can it reconfigure to 5.5MB when the PCMCIA slot is in use?

Was this ever implemented on old designs? There are a few which have "non-contiguous" jumpers but there is very little info on what it does.

Like this board : http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/1208ma,1

Originally Posted by Cammy

a RTC is [important]

WTF for?

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Cammy

Is there any more information about the Analogic A1200 RAM expansion? Does it have 8MB built onto it, or does it have SIMM slots? Does it have a Real-Time Clock? FPU socket? SCSI connector? Is it PCMCIA-friendly, and can it reconfigure to 5.5MB when the PCMCIA slot is in use?

The Analogic A1200 8MB Memory Upgrade has a single 72-pin SIMM slot populated with an 8MB SIMM. It has no RTC, FPU socket or SCSI connector and it is not PCMCIA friendly unless the 8MB SIMM is replaced with a 4MB SIMM.

Originally Posted by Cammy

I think an A1200 RAM card needs to have most of these (except SIMM slots if it has 8MB on-board). SCSI isn't that important, but a RTC is!

Then it won't meet your expectations.

Originally Posted by alexh

Highly unlikely it is anything other than a second hand unit.

The one I bought was new.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by prowler

The one I bought was new.

Any chance of some high-rez photographs for Amiga Hardware Database?

[prowler]

Originally Posted by alexh

Any chance of some high-rez photographs for Amiga Hardware Database?

Yes, I'll scan it for you. Er, how hi-res is "hi-rez"?

And, do you want it with or without SIMM, or both?

[alexh]

Without SIMM

Email them to the Amiga hardware Database, alex@resource.cx (not me btw).

As for what rez... whatever you can do. They can always be reduced.

[prowler]

Okay, I'll scan both sides of it tomorrow, and provide lower-res pics for this thread, as there seems to be sufficient interest.

[Cammy]

Prowler, thanks for clearing everything up about that RAM card

Originally Posted by alexh

It is impossible for a RAM card to be PCMCIA friendly and still have 8Mbytes.

You are wrong. I do not have to remove any of the 8MB of RAM from my RAM card for it to work with my PCMCIA port, it's a simple matter of changing a jumper and running a patch (MagicMem).

Originally Posted by alexh

Was this ever implemented on old designs?

Yes, on the DKB 1202

Originally Posted by alexh

WTF for?

You don't know what a Real-Time Clock is for? Well, they're very useful. First of all, you can now have a working clock on Workbench, so you can tell the time without having to look away from the computer. It also helps when you can't remember what day it is! Have you ever had to sort a directory's contents by time/date? If you have no RTC, your files won't be saved with the correct creation time, so they'll be impossible to sort this way. There are even some programs which won't run properly or at all unless you have a RTC, like scheduling programs, callendar/organisers, games like AmiPet...

I'd like to know why you think RTCs are so useless!

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Cammy

You are wrong.

I do not think so. But I live to be found wrong.

Originally Posted by Cammy

I do not have to remove any of the 8MB of RAM from my RAM card for it to work with my PCMCIA port, it's a simple matter of changing a jumper and running a patch (MagicMem).

Where does it put the extra 4Mbytes of RAM? What address? What generates / blocks the hardware chip select?

The EC020 in an A1200 has only 24 address lines, giving a maximum addressable range of 16Mbytes. Of which most of it is already taken up!

Here is a breakdown of the full 24-bit address map. You can see that there is not enough space to fit in an extra 4Mbytes! Perhaps 3 at most. And not in one contiguous chunk. It is so sparse that whatever generates the chip-selects would have to be complicated logic.

$000000-$1FFFFF 	2MiB Chip RAM
$200000-$5FFFFF        4MiB Fast-RAM
$600000-$9FFFFF        4MiB PCMCIA slot, or extra 4Mb fast ram 
$A00000-$BEFFFF 	1.9MiB Reserved
$BFD000-$BFDF00 	PIA B (even addresses)
$BFE001-$BFEF00 	PIA C (odd addresses)
$C00000-$DFEFFF 	Reserved for expansion
$DFF000-$DFFFFF 	Custom chip registers
$E00000-$E7FFFF 	0.5MiB Reserved
$E80000-$EFFFFF 	0.5MiB Expansion ports
$F00000-$F7FFFF 	0.5MiB ROM overlay address
$F80000-$FFFFFF 	0.5MiB System ROM

I challenge you to provide a print out of the RAM mapping showing where it is mapped to.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Cammy

I'd like to know why you think RTCs are so useless!

Think about what they were for... non of those things are done with an Amiga TODAY.

Originally Posted by Cammy

First of all, you can now have a working clock on Workbench, so you can tell the time without having to look away from the computer.

Or, you could just press the text button on the TV remote?

Hands up here who regularly uses the clock feature of Workbench? (on a vanilla A1200 with only a RAM upgrade) Any one??

Originally Posted by Cammy

It also helps when you can't remember what day it is!

Again, just press the text button on the TV remote.

Originally Posted by Cammy

Have you ever had to sort a directory's contents by time/date? If you have no RTC, your files won't be saved with the correct creation time, so they'll be impossible to sort this way.

I'll admit, back in the day, this was the best thing about having an RTC. BUT you have to admit, for the vast majority of Amiga users it was useless because they never created any files!

Today it is even less relevant as most files will be generated away from the Amiga (if you're sensible) and transferred over.

Originally Posted by Cammy

There are even some programs which won't run properly or at all unless you have a RTC, like scheduling programs, callendar/organisers, games like AmiPet...

The vast majority of today's Amiga users would almost certainly never use these programs. (And I doubt many of Yesterday's Amiga users did either!) Especially not an A1200 with just a RAM card.

No-one uses their Amiga today as a serious computer. It's just a bit of fun, nostalgia. Something to play retrogames and watch demos on.

[Cammy]

How ignorant of you to presume to know exactly what every Amiga user still does with their A1200 these days.

[alexh]

How arrogant of you to presume that I dont

Seriously though. You don't agree? Do you think that the vast majority of A1200 users (with no accelerator) need/want/use an RTC?

Interesting differing point of view, valid, strange but valid. Now how can I convert you??...

Please, ask yourself "How many of today's Amiga users have removed the battery from their RTC because it was leaking?" If you are honest, the answer will be very high, awareness is higher than it has ever been about leaking batteries.

Now ask yourself "How many users replaced the battery afterwards?" If you are truthfully honest, the answer is going to be very low. Not zero, yes I know some people do it, but low.

How do we know this? Just look at the 10's of photo's on BBoAH, Amiga hardware database and Amiga.org gallery of Amiga RTC circuits with no battery.

Now ask yourself "Does the average Amiga user today care about an RTC if they never replace the battery?"

The defence rests M'Lord.

Still not changed you mind?

If I've not annoyed you further, I'd be very interested to know where these PCMCIA friendly 8Mbyte RAM cards map their extra RAM to. If you've got one, it would be cool to see the output of Sysinfo or some other tool. (Isn't there a cli command to get the RAM address map?)

[Paul_s]

I still use an RTC to;

a) Time my eggs when boiling
b) Making love to a beautiful woman

etc

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

b) Making love to a beautiful woman etc.

Another reason why todays Amiga users don't need an RTC.

[prowler]

Originally Posted by alexh

Email them to the Amiga hardware Database, alex@resource.cx (not me btw).

Done. Sent 600dpi scans for Amiga hardware Database and 150dpi scans attached here.

[fitzsteve]

Originally Posted by prowler

Hi Steve,

Have a look here (Analogic A1200 8MB Memory Upgrade - £49.45 delivered).

@prowler

I have ordered one of these, just plugs in the trap door right, any configuration needed?

Will it conflict with the PCMCIA reader? No big deal if it does as I have already transfered all my files to the new hard drive and I assume I can disable the card when I want to use the CF?

Thanks,

Steve.

[alexh]

There looks like a 4/8 MByte jumper on the top of the card (does that face downward??)

Should make it fairly easy to switch to 4Mbytes when wanting to use the PCMCIA interface.