Amiga Clone Natami - Planned For Summer 2008 - Page 5

Samurai_Crow · 08 June 2008, 00:33

More to add:

If the Natami consumer edition had an integrated CPU in the graphics chipset (as is currently planned) then they could optimize out problems with interrupts that would have previously caused pipeline stalls and cache dumps such as video beam synchronization interrupts. The PowerPC does something similar with the built-in clock for its interrupt controller on the CPU. They could also add other optimizations such as adding opcodes to prefetch linked list nodes so that blit nodes would be cached in the hardware. The list is almost endless!

Samurai_Crow · 08 June 2008, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yotoxionomai

Great Natami project!
Does this means i can finally put my A1200 to rest?

That's the idea. Plus it will support PCI (or possibly PCIe) slots so you can probably put to rest any A4000s you have around as well.

Pyromania · 08 June 2008, 01:43

I would hope that Natami would have at least one Zorro II slot and a video slot so that a Video Toaster 4000 card and a Flyer card could be used with it.

blade002 · 08 June 2008, 06:29

Sorry for being lazy here, but would the Natami still allow us to play all of our Classic Amiga games or AGA ones only or none? I know this machine will be far more than just a gaming platform because its got very impressive specs, but i am just wondering??

08 June 2008, 11:55

I welcome all new hardware for Amiga, but I wont cheer until I am able to buy it...

mfletcher · 08 June 2008, 15:09

Yup, me too. Summers here already, and I dont hear any news on the boards imminent release. If its not backwards compatible with older Amiga software, Im not interested. Maybe they'll be able to emulate UAE in whatever OS it runs, but until then, Id be more interested in picking up a MiniMig or an old A500.

Samurai_Crow · 08 June 2008, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade002

Sorry for being lazy here, but would the Natami still allow us to play all of our Classic Amiga games or AGA ones only or none? I know this machine will be far more than just a gaming platform because its got very impressive specs, but i am just wondering??

The Natami is being tested to run classic software but any software that assumes chipset timing according to the old model might be incompatible, only because the SuperAGA chipset is many times faster than the traditional AGA chipset. Most classic software should run though.

Also, the Natami has a 3d accelerated 32-bit color mode built-in so it should be able to compete with the likes of the Wii or the Playstation 2. (The PS3 and XBox 360 will require a little more work.)

Samurai_Crow · 08 June 2008, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyromania

I would hope that Natami would have at least one Zorro II slot and a video slot so that a Video Toaster 4000 card and a Flyer card could be used with it.

No. Legacy is not the primary goal of Natami. Compatibility is. The idea is that, after some people have upgraded to a Natami model, they may sell some of their older Amiga hardware so there will be more of the older hardware available than currently.

If the Natami will support the Toaster, it will probably be the current PCI models rather than the old Zorro and Video slot models. The reason for this is that duplicating the old-style card slots does not improve the capabilities of the Natami over the old A4000 models. See the explanation on the Natami home page at http://www.natami.net/index.htm .

Yoto · 09 June 2008, 16:05

I´m amazed!

Such device with this strong features clearly deserves more than old software, who will produce it?

Oli_HD · 09 June 2008, 18:52

I think they should just aim at the $1000 unit, I know I will buy a Natami for that much. Trying to make a $100 chip would be a pain.

Samurai_Crow · 10 June 2008, 03:55

@Oli_HD

The limited number of available 100MHz 68060s means that there will be an equally limited number of 68060-based Natami Dev boxes. In order to look to the future, the Natami team needs to look for an alternate supply source for their processors.

Madcrow · 10 June 2008, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

@Oli_HD

The limited number of available 100MHz 68060s means that there will be an equally limited number of 68060-based Natami Dev boxes. In order to look to the future, the Natami team needs to look for an alternate supply source for their processors.

Were 100 MHz 060s ever made or are these just 60 MHz chips that have been overclocked? Certainly no 100 MHz chips are CURRENTLY made (the fastest fully-featured '060 on the market is the the 60 MHz part, though the LC (no-FPU) and EC (no FPU or MMU) versions go as high as 75)

Personally, I don't trust overclocking and if the planned speed numbers for this are based on overclocking, then my interest in it goes down.

klx300r · 10 June 2008, 22:47

and itll cost $5,000 USD

or something ridiculous im sure

alexh · 10 June 2008, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

Were 100 MHz 060s ever made

No, but the very last (Rev6) 50MHz parts run almost cold at 50MHz and do not use a heatsink or fan. When you slap on a good heatsink and fan then overclocking is not a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

or are these just 60 MHz chips that have been overclocked?

They are 50MHz parts overclocked. MC68060RC50 Mask E41J

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

Personally, I don't trust overclocking

That is because you are naive. You've been sucked into the rumours put about by chip vendors that overclocking is bad, shortens the life of chips, can break your computer. CPU chips are sold overclocked and underclocked officially every day and have been for 40 years!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcrow

if the planned speed numbers for this are based on overclocking, then my interest in it goes down.

No big loss if you ask me

Samurai_Crow · 11 June 2008, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by klx300r

and itll cost $5,000 USD

or something ridiculous im sure

The original '060 developer version will cost no more than $1500, I'm sure. The mass produced version will be cheaper due to economies of scale and faster due to a totally redesigned so-called "68070" core on the same chip as SuperAGA version 2. With all of this integration the second version Natami will be comparable to the Pandora in price and probably size too.

As far as any potential trolling about the 68070, remember that the Pentium III and better was designed around an instruction set just as old as the 68000 itself. Also they are planning on making some integration between the 68070 and the SuperAGA graphics chips to make the system even more integrated than the competition.

Cammy · 11 June 2008, 23:29

How come you guys aren't using Coldfire CPUs anymore?

Samurai_Crow · 12 June 2008, 22:36

It would be more work to patch up the incompatibilities of the Coldfire than it would be to develop a whole new 68070 CPU.

Methanoid · 16 June 2008, 13:23

Looks great BUT

1) who actually thinks it WILL happen in 2008
2) 2009
3) 2010
4) Never

Seriously... this would be a poll-worthy question.. don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen but I suspect the only "New Amiga Hardware" we will see in 2008/9 will be Clone-A IF that happens at all

Merlin · 16 June 2008, 13:47

Meh... it will be "just 2 more weeks" as the tag says.....

Yoto · 16 June 2008, 15:06

Great!!! Natami for the Summer, Fallout 3 for the Fall, i must start saving up right away!!!

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08 June 2008, 00:33	#81
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,188	More to add: If the Natami consumer edition had an integrated CPU in the graphics chipset (as is currently planned) then they could optimize out problems with interrupts that would have previously caused pipeline stalls and cache dumps such as video beam synchronization interrupts. The PowerPC does something similar with the built-in clock for its interrupt controller on the CPU. They could also add other optimizations such as adding opcodes to prefetch linked list nodes so that blit nodes would be cached in the hardware. The list is almost endless!

08 June 2008, 01:43	#83
Pyromania Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,386	I would hope that Natami would have at least one Zorro II slot and a video slot so that a Video Toaster 4000 card and a Flyer card could be used with it.

08 June 2008, 06:29	#84
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	Sorry for being lazy here, but would the Natami still allow us to play all of our Classic Amiga games or AGA ones only or none? I know this machine will be far more than just a gaming platform because its got very impressive specs, but i am just wondering??

08 June 2008, 11:55	#85
bent Posts: n/a	I welcome all new hardware for Amiga, but I wont cheer until I am able to buy it...

08 June 2008, 15:09	#86
mfletcher Bawbag. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chicago, USA Posts: 375	Yup, me too. Summers here already, and I dont hear any news on the boards imminent release. If its not backwards compatible with older Amiga software, Im not interested. Maybe they'll be able to emulate UAE in whatever OS it runs, but until then, Id be more interested in picking up a MiniMig or an old A500.

09 June 2008, 16:05	#89
Yoto 1 Potato to Spam´em all! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lost in a Wine Country Age: 48 Posts: 572	I´m amazed! Such device with this strong features clearly deserves more than old software, who will produce it?

09 June 2008, 18:52	#90
Oli_HD Collector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Staffordshire. UK Posts: 157	I think they should just aim at the $1000 unit, I know I will buy a Natami for that much. Trying to make a $100 chip would be a pain.

10 June 2008, 03:55	#91
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,188	@Oli_HD The limited number of available 100MHz 68060s means that there will be an equally limited number of 68060-based Natami Dev boxes. In order to look to the future, the Natami team needs to look for an alternate supply source for their processors.

10 June 2008, 22:47	#93
klx300r Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ManCave, Canada Posts: 1,614	and itll cost $5,000 USD or something ridiculous im sure

11 June 2008, 23:29	#96
Cammy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 39 Posts: 1,189	How come you guys aren't using Coldfire CPUs anymore?

12 June 2008, 22:36	#97
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,188	It would be more work to patch up the incompatibilities of the Coldfire than it would be to develop a whole new 68070 CPU.

16 June 2008, 13:23	#98
Methanoid Retired Quartex Sysop Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Roman Verulamium Age: 58 Posts: 1,874	Looks great BUT 1) who actually thinks it WILL happen in 2008 2) 2009 3) 2010 4) Never Seriously... this would be a poll-worthy question.. don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen but I suspect the only "New Amiga Hardware" we will see in 2008/9 will be Clone-A IF that happens at all

16 June 2008, 13:47	#99
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Meh... it will be "just 2 more weeks" as the tag says.....

16 June 2008, 15:06	#100
Yoto 1 Potato to Spam´em all! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lost in a Wine Country Age: 48 Posts: 572	Great!!! Natami for the Summer, Fallout 3 for the Fall, i must start saving up right away!!!

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