Floppy disk emulator read please !

Originally Posted by _ThEcRoW

And how about that russian guy who managed to get a prototype stage of a drive replacement for his 500 using MMC's. He also used the display of a nokia phone for the track info/listing. was very interesting and the most important, standalone a full drive replacement.
Anyone got any news?

A new design is being worked on:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/myalbum....php?uid=12817

A few comments in original thread:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/v...=ASC&start=120

[gizmomelb]

the Torlus guys have developed a stand-alone floppy drive emulator (for Amiga, Atari, Amstrad, Spectrum, Korg etc.) based on a cheap PIC18F4525 MCU, which uses SD/MMC flash for reading (I don't know if it supports writing yet) and was specifically designed to be easy to make (no surface mounted components - though I'm sure the techies will re-design the circuit board to make it much smaller and utilising SMD components).

specific pics and post:
http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewtopic.php?p=318#318

the general website (in French) where the new PCB, MCU code and circuit schematic will be released (as well as more pics and history of the floppy drive emulator project (almost 2 years old now)):
http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/f...rive_emulator/

[alexh]

It is a great achievement.

I do hope that is just a prototype. It's too "over engineered" for a commercial product.

Why has it got an LCD on it? LED's? 3 buttons? Separate PSU?

How come it has such a strange form-factor?

[Charlie]

This is fantastic!

...like alexh said.

[DrF]

Shame there no longer planning to sell them, that only leaves the commercial alternative of that floppy sim cable thingy and weird software combo thats always on eBay (I posted about it) but that would prob be cheaper anyhow as that relies more on the software and is just a mutalated cable solution.

Good work though

[gizmomelb]

it's not a commercial project - they released all the info for people to make their own hardware floppy disk emulators. The original surface mounted FPGA was a bit daunting for the average electronics hobbyist, the MCU version though should be a lot easier for the average electronic jockey to make. I'm sure you'll see pre-made units for sale on ebay eventually.

once the schematic and MCU code is released, then there's no stopping you doing a little re-design and losing the LCD etc. if you want (the LCD I'm guessing allows you to see which ADF etc. images you have on your SD card and select the one you want for loading. Similar with the three buttons (eject / load / next maybe?)).

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

if you want (the LCD I'm guessing allows you to see which ADF etc. images you have on your SD card and select the one you want for loading. Similar with the three buttons (eject / load / next maybe?)).

It doesn't need an LCD (You've got a TV monitor!)
It doesn't need 3 buttons (You've got a 96 key keyboard and a joystick!)
It doesn't need it's own PSU (You've got the floppy power connector!)

It does need to be the same form factor as a real floppy drive, with screw holes in the right places so it can replace any internal floppy drive.

If they want to work with me to turn it into a commercial product, I am happy to donate time and money to bring it to market for all floppy disk retro platforms. (Amiga, Atari, C64, CPC, Spectrum etc.)

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by alexh

...If they want to work with me to turn it into a commercial product, I am happy to donate time and money to bring it to market for all floppy disk retro platforms. (Amiga, Atari, C64, CPC, Spectrum etc.)

I can think of 'non-retro' uses too.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I can think of 'non-retro' uses too.

I cant.

[Zetr0]

an awesome project!

[gizmomelb]

Originally Posted by alexh

It doesn't need an LCD (You've got a TV monitor!)

this device appears as a 'dumb' floppy drive to the computer, how do you interface it to a TV? have a video cable from the floppy drive ?

Originally Posted by alexh

It doesn't need 3 buttons (You've got a 96 key keyboard and a joystick!)

again, this appears as a normal floppy drive to the original computer - how do you tell the computer keyboard to control loading/ejecting/selecting floppy disk images from the original computer (without wiring into the original computer keyboard io)? don't want the LCD? don't include it in the PCB you build

Originally Posted by alexh

It doesn't need it's own PSU (You've got the floppy power connector!)

It does need to be the same form factor as a real floppy drive, with screw holes in the right places so it can replace any internal floppy drive.

the pics released are the prototype - it's larger than a standard floppy drive and has an external psu for easier debugging. When the schematics are released you can always design/produce the PCB to any size you want and use the onboard 5V from the computer.

Originally Posted by alexh

If they want to work with me to turn it into a commercial product, I am happy to donate time and money to bring it to market for all floppy disk retro platforms. (Amiga, Atari, C64, CPC, Spectrum etc.)

the aim these guys had was to design something SIMPLE (and cheap) to make so any electronics handy person could make it. If you want to turn it into a commercial product then I suggest you contact them via their website. I'm happy to make my own, but if the price is right then buying one would also be nice.

[gizmomelb]

Originally Posted by alexh

I cant.

there are some older synthesizers which load samples in from floppy disks, industrial milling machines which load patterns in from floppy. There's not a huge market outside of the retro computer scene, but there is potentially a market.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

this device appears as a 'dumb' floppy drive to the computer, how do you interface it to a TV? have a video cable from the floppy drive ?

You dont need a video cable, you've got a direct link from the floppy drive to the TV via the host machine.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

again, this appears as a normal floppy drive to the original computer - how do you tell the computer keyboard to control loading

An ultra basic disk image stored on the flash card. A menu system that runs on host machine used to select the initial disk(s). 5 minutes to code. Cuts the BOM of the device by perhaps as much as 80%. In the case of ST/Amiga you could even have a dual format disk.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

ejecting/selecting floppy disk images

Floppy disk drives usually have only one button (eject). They should have looked into using just one button. Then, when it came to integrating it inside a computer, there would be no extra buttons required, just hijack the eject button.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

has an external psu for easier debugging.

What?

the aim these guys had was to design something SIMPLE (and cheap) to make so any electronics handy person could make it.

And they made something slightly more complicated than it needed to be and not cheap.

[gizmomelb]

Originally Posted by alexh

You dont need a video cable, you've got a direct link from the floppy drive to the TV via the host machine.

An ultra basic disk image stored on the flash card. A menu system that runs on host machine used to select the initial disk(s). 5 minutes to code. Cuts the BOM of the device by perhaps as much as 80%. In the case of ST/Amiga you could even have a dual format disk.

Sounds great! I look forward to seeing your added development for this feature. As the floppy emulator appears as a standard floppy drive to whatever computer it is connected to you'll need to figure out a way to be able to software eject the inserted disk, then select the image you want from the SD and insert it (the same way as if you had a physical floppy disk with a floppy carousel controller - but it's only controlled through standard signals to the floppy I/O).

At least on the Amiga you could do something like tell the MCU if it sees a specific sequence of I/O commands on the floppy port to perform the eject / select / load functions - but that's not a lot of use if you wanted to use the floppy emulator on your CPC, Amstrad, Korg etc. which doesn't have as software controllable floppy interface as the Amiga.

Originally Posted by alexh

Floppy disk drives usually have only one button (eject). They should have looked into using just one button. Then, when it came to integrating it inside a computer, there would be no extra buttons required, just hijack the eject button.

And they made something slightly more complicated than it needed to be and not cheap.

I guess you could have some extra circuitry so that when you press the floppy eject button it works similar to an action replay, so that it pauses the CPU, passes control to a small ROM which has the code to directly talk to the MCU and eject the current floppy image, list all images on the SD, load the new selected image, notifiy a disk change on the floppy I/O port and then release control back to the host machine. It won't be a generic floppy emulator any more though.

AlexH I can see where you're coming from, but this is a hobbyist project in prototype stage, NOT a commercial project and is aimed to work with ALL computers that used a fairly standard floppy drive. Prototypes usually have extra debug ports or other features which help with debugging and development, which can be omitted from the 'final' PCB design. Think of the pics of the system they have developed as being the equivalent of a Spartan3 (or other FPGA) debug board. Look at the early design of the miniMig on the Spartan3E board, then compare it to the final minimig PCB which was released.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Dizzy

how can you love disk and loading time ????

I will say as KG. I hate disk and think things are better preserved when on a HD than on a disk

This is ofc true. But ofc anyone could run anything in an emulator without WHDload. Disks are good when "your" demo isn't WHDloaded yet, or when it's just faster to grab a disk and shove it in the drive (carefully ofc).

[Photon]

A500 floppy replacement looks cool Please make it so a user can put new stuff on the card without opening the Amiga

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

you'll need to figure out a way to be able to software eject the inserted disk

The eject button would become a simple touch switch, wired to the floppy disk emulator board. It would be context sensitive as well as responding differently to press and hold.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

then select the image you want from the SD and insert it (the same way as if you had a physical floppy disk with a floppy carousel controller - but it's only controlled through standard signals to the floppy I/O).

It would have a default floppy disk image (stored in a default location on the SD card) and this image is automatically "inserted" after a power on.

The Amiga (or whatever computer) would boot from this image on power on.

The default image would be many times smaller than a real disk, the "unused" portion of the disk would then be used to pass information to and from the floppy emulator. Information about the disk images stored on the SD card, disk selection etc.

The default disk image would create a simple menu, the user selects the disk image(s), the default disk image then informs the floppy disk emulator of the selection whereby it "inserts" the selected disk.

The user then reboots (either with the reset key(s) or an option in the host application) and the computer boots the selected disk image.

For multi-disk games, pressing the eject button would cycles through the selected disk images.

Press and hold returns the floppy emulator to the reset state, selects the default disk image whereby the user can then reboot and select another disk image.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

that's not a lot of use if you wanted to use the floppy emulator on your Amstrad CPC, etc. which doesn't have as software controllable floppy interface as the Amiga.

The Amstard CPC does have a software controllable floppy interface. (i.e. it can send read/write commands) As do all computers AFAIK.

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

I guess you could have some extra circuitry so that when you press the floppy eject button it works similar to an action replay

No, as you say that would make the product too specific. Not Generic enough.

It would require help from developers on each platform to create the default images, but they would be very simple and you could open source the developer information. If the price was right for the hardware, the developers would embrace it, writing the applications for you.

[gizmomelb]

for those of you interested in reading about and possibly building the SDcard floppy disk emulator - the circuit schematics and PCB layout have been posted on the HxC website (firmware to come shortly):

http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/f...tor/index.html

[gizmomelb]

just an update - the FPGA / USB version of the floppy disk drive emulator now supports CAPS / IPF images.

[r.cade]

I am looking forward to kits being available one day. Neat project.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

just an update - the FPGA / USB version of the floppy disk drive emulator now supports CAPS / IPF images.

I thought that the ones which use the PC as a host always supported IPF? All it has to do is used the SPS .DLL in the same way an emulator would.

Shame SPS wont release the details for support in a stand alone version.

[Photon]

So his post about not selling kits was just a scare to see if anyone was interested?

[Photon]

Contacted Jean-Francois, got this reply:

A USB version of the board is still being produced and sold,

http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewt...er=asc&start=0

(by an associate)

And from himself, this quote:

"In fact the project is not "dead".
I continue to design the standalone version and adding new image file support (lately IPF and Pasti files)."

Great for floppy replacement in old platforms, would also be nice to have a USB to Amiga floppy interface to read in "hundreds of disks in the attic" or use in WinUAE (for originals etc).

[alexh]

IPF support? I would be amazed if he had been able to do it with no help from the SPS team.

[Yoto]

Well, did anyone on EAB built/purchased any of these Floppy emulators?
And if so wich version, the Lcd or the second one with the Altera chip?

Hiho!

I just got a PCB and a programmed CPLD and finished the board yesterday, works pretty good. Only bad thing: read-only

Interested in pictures and a short youtube-video?

btw.: is there an easy way to swap DF1 and DF0 on an A600 or A1200?
I want to put the board into an external drive and want to be able to boot even demos and protected games from it.

[darksun9210]

what about building a miniture PC in a diskdrive case with this card?

[dlfrsilver]

maybe amigakit could make a deal with jean-françois delnero ? And then produce some
kits and sell them ?

The floppy emulator works great actually

[Photon]

Originally Posted by Dizzy

how can you love disk and loading time ????

I will say as KG. I hate disk and think things are better preserved when on a HD than on a disk

WHDload would be the greatest solution, if only all slaves worked on all configs, such as non-68020+ cpus and non-AGA. They should make it happen

Until then, floppy disks written from PC directly, or a big Flash card with RAD-mountable games is best.

So get busy! Grr

[gizmomelb]

dredging up an ancient post... but well worth it.

The Torlus HxC floppy disk drive emulator how has WRITE support for Amiga disk images (it's supported disk write for other formats for quite a while):

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html

specifically it needs some RAM on the board:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_...ease_notes.txt

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by gizmomelb

dredging up an ancient post... but well worth it.

The Torlus HxC floppy disk drive emulator how has WRITE support for Amiga disk images (it's supported disk write for other formats for quite a while):

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html

specifically it needs some RAM on the board:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_...ease_notes.txt

And i am preparing the amiga version of the file image selector software (already available for CPC and Atari ST : http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyC5te6Mn0 )

[chiark]

Excellent

[alexh]

Great work.

Will the code for each platform become open-source so that the communities can pick them up tailor the GUI?

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by alexh

Great work.

Will the code for each platform become open-source so that the communities can pick them up tailor the GUI?

Yes.
This is already "free" if you ask to me the code. documentations are also available.

For example in the CPC community a demomaker (norecess) take the original version, and make it smaller and faster !

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by Jeff_HxC2001

And i am preparing the amiga version of the file image selector software (already available for CPC and Atari ST : http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyC5te6Mn0 )

Hi,

It's now done :

Finally i managed to port the file selector software to Amiga:




Rev B & C Hardware are supported. You have just to get the lastest firmware update and file selector software on the project website:

http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_....html#download

[Carlos Ace]

Kool news Jeff !!!
Keep up the good work

[hessie]

Really looks nice Jeff!
Is there some kind of solution to make it work properly on an A1200 as well?
It's very difficult to select an image of my sdcard within the manager cause it's scrolls way to fast :-)

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Originally Posted by hessie

Really looks nice Jeff!
Is there some kind of solution to make it work properly on an A1200 as well?
It's very difficult to select an image of my sdcard within the manager cause it's scrolls way to fast :-)

Lol. This should not very hard to correct this.
For me this is a good news since i had never tried it on Amiga 1200, and it seems to work (too fast maybe )

[chiark]

That's fantastic! Must order one - my wife was just asking me what I wanted for my birthday

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Hi,

A small video demo of SD Card HxC Floppy Emulator used with the file selector software:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1zP6p9SBLw

Project webpage:
http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/

Producer webpage:
http://www.lotharek.pl/