The latest form of FRAUD!

[cebulba]

Hello drfsilver...

nice to hear your thoughts on this topic. To defend myself - this thread was not aimed at you directly and I wouldn't have mentioned your name either - I wanted to hear other people thoughts about this topic of cheating - and I still hope we'll have a nice discussion here.

YES, it was WIZARD WARS - and the auction was for ATARI ST (I don't need speaking french to differ ATARI and AMIGA ). However this game is very rare (16 Bit) and imagine that the AMIGA version is the same as the ATARI ST (if you only think of the different disc labels)...

I can't really follow your statement.

Ebay is a marketplace, right? Everything is priced on DEMAND - even in the real world. If there is a high demand in rare games I don't see a problem in risen prices.

I don't think that I would get a Mercedes Oldtimer for a few pennies just for the "artificial prices doeesn't allow Mercedes fan people to buy one" ???

There are 50+ games which usually sell for more than 100 Euros and you know that. You even knew that this game would have risen beyond 100 Euros - that's why you ask the seller to end the auction early. And why did you spent 100 Euros then - if games are not worth that money and to quote "
Paying video games even very rare one more than 150 euros is a shame with human misery" - 100 Euros OK then??!?

I call this AUCTION INTERFERENCE and a way of CHEATING.

If I value this game - or many others - more than you could pay - then you loose. Sorry. Better luck next time. However what you did is CHEATING and TRICKING.

Perhaps the seller - as he explained to me - doesn't mind in selling this for 100 if he could have gotten 100+ - that doesn't makes it a nice action.

Yes, Ebay sucks - and if the Customer support would be better I could even report you (this is a "violation of Ebay user agreements" check their FAQ) - but as you know that doesn't work. And for which purpose should I do that?

I take - and other too - collection seriously. I do not "plays speculators / money makers" or snip in a game just to raise the price. I buy games for collecting purposes. Yes, some may raise in pricing and therefore you can speak of an "investment" but this is not when talking about AMIGA games rather than early releases of Apple II games or some carts.

Do I need to state some names? try to find a ULTIMA Mt. Drash for under 3000 USD (complete one), try to find KIZUNA ENCOUNTER for under 10000 USD (jap ed), try to find a STARCROSS Infocom FOLIO Edition ("the saucer") for under 1500 USD. You won't find it....believe me. I collect games for 8 years now...

Sure, I trade rare games or hand them over to friends for less than I could get on Ebay. Why not?friendship and human relations are more appreciated than pushing money alone - even to me mad man

The point is that you convinced the seller (and don't tell me you know him personally) to end the auction early at your BENEFIT - knowing you won't get the opportunity to win it the normal way...

[dlfrsilver]

Sorry but that's true i know him personally !

We met in 2003, he was selling A1200 at this period, and yes i had a nice surprise when
i came at his house.

And by this way, no need to convince him. I just ask him if he want to, he has told me the price
he wanted of it, i said yes and so there we go.

The mercedes example is wrong. We're talking about video games ONLY video games, not luxe products. refers to my example about Louis XVI chairs.

Do you know the game QIN on atari ST ? It's a french only game, a real collector.
This game is as rare as Wizard warz. 250 euros minimum for a game of this kind.

I got it for free, only against few games + empty boxes in a new state. I even prefer
swapping with collector friends, it's even cheaper, and i can have real gems without killing
all my money, which is stupid.

[cebulba]

Originally Posted by Anubis

I always wondered why some amiga stuff desapierd after couple of hours. Thanks for explanation.

Another intention why I started this thread.

@woody: if I would have been interested in the furniture I would have been angry, too

@dlfsilver:
Even you know the seller - this doesn't make it more polite. I assume you saw I bid (at least you know me paying hundreds for an item I dare want to have) and thats why you ask him, knowing you would loose (did I said that already? ). I see you know these "crappy" prices for collectible games (thanks for the hint with the QIN game) and to my though this is another proof of your behaviour (unsporting tactic ).

I lose items every week because people who are willing to pay more outbid me fair and square. But what's worse than losing is never getting the opportunity to win. When someone sneaks around working deals behind the scenes, it robs every honest collector of that chance. It is a form of cheating.

to stop this tactic - that's why I bid on the item. Do you want to know what other people do to prevent those hidden tricks?

I may again quote a friend of mine:

To BOTH the bidders and the sellers:

Here's what I'm going to start doing to combat this trend. From now on, every time I find a rare item that I plan to watch or snipe (and I have over a hundred automated searches running several times a week), I'm contacting the seller through eBay, telling them I'm planning to snipe the auction for a high amount, and cautioning them to resist the temptation to close early if they get what seems to be a good offer from someone else. If they do end the auction early, I will ask them why. Possibly from a different e-mail or eBay account, possibly making a counter-offer of my own, I'm a sneaky bastard. If they admit they sold out to a private offer, I will write them back and tell them I would have gone $100, $200, $500 higher. Even if I really wouldn't have, just to make them think they've just pissed away a boatload of money.

Then I will try to obtain the identity of the buyer from them. If they won't reveal it, I will forward their confession to eBay and add them to my blacklist. If I do get the buyer's ID, I will list and report them instead. And since I know a lot of fellow collectors sell on eBay I could get the Ebay IDs from people who ask them to sell privately. I will no longer trade with any collectors I catch doing this, and will advise others against trading with you as well. Starting NOW. This is the warning, there won't be another. Doesn't matter who you are or how long we've known each other. I am SICK of this crap, and I'm doing everything in my power to stop it. I encourage everyone else who doesn't like getting screwed out of fair bidding to do the same.

and thanks for the Mercedes follow up. You could get a mercedes car for less - if it's totally broken. So you would get a game disc only for less than a collectible price. No one is forced to pay high sums on such games. If you don't want to. Wait for a cheapier one - if it doesn't come - then there is a value behind!
I know people spending hundreds of dollars on their "table" railroad. Do I call these individuals mad cause they spend 1000 USD on a toy?

Do you know any HI-RES Adventures by Sierra On-Line (Apple II)? These are worth 300++. I did get one a few months ago. FOR FREE. YES, I even didn't ask for it - I just got it FOR FREE from a collector buddy who knew I was collecting them, too (besides my 3000+ AMIGA games).In return I hand him a very personal letter and a book written by a friend of mine (besides a signed game box) - although he didn't want to have anything in exchange.


Money is not the point.

I just feel being cheated and you know why

Tricked by you and others practising these unsporting tactics.

If these are just boxes and have no value to you - why the heck are you doing this then?

[dlfrsilver]

they have sentimental value, and this is not for sale.

Don't say cheated, say frustrated. This happened to us every day, me included. Once again, depending on the country, sellers/collectors don't have the same approach.

BTW, even if i had let the auction, you wouldn't had it anyway.
I would have raised more than the pocket money you have per month on
the game....


Hell yes ! People pushing 1000 USD for a toy don't have any knowledge about money value. Once again, you and the guys who think like you are a sort of ELITE that restreint the possibilities of auctionning. And sorry to say you this, but if i really want a game, which is rare (happened only once), i have paid 700 GBP for the best collector of all time :

- The personal cannon fodder copy of Julian Jameson, aka JOOLS, the programmer of the game
- Personal dedicated picture from Richard Joseph himself for winning the auction,
- Private photos from the sensible team with all the guys from Jon hare to stu, chris yates, etc....
- Private photos of the bitmap brothers, with richard and eric matthews
- Private photos of Martin walker (r-type II sound engineer) + a pic of the guy
who shout ICE CREAM in speedball 2.
- the 50 minutes soundtrack of the game unreleased Sex drug n Rock n roll
- Private copies of the gods, chaos engine, speedball 2 master soundtrack from which Richard Joseph has created the amiga soundtracks,
- Videos of all sensible games,
- their personal nail-cutter, ^^
- Pictures of Jackie Read, the singer you hear singing in sensible golf.
- And the best at the end, the inside of the box dedicated by all the team
RJ, JON HARE, STU CAMPBELL, JOOLS, etc....

At last, i'm the french guardian of this game. So it's well protected at Home.

this one exceed whatever you can bid on.

[jrom]

hmmm.... still sounds a bit lame...

[dlfrsilver]

Looool

[Slayer]

yip!

a totally useless debate...

it's a bit like the idea that alot of people are simply lucky because we 'live' in a so called civilised world...

the bad guys as we call it wouldn't last 5 mins in a real anarchy world... the stronger types would take them out...

but they break all our rules and then our rules protect them...

so forgive me if I don't give one about what you think is underhanded auctions... people with money will always have an edge at auction time and people with enough cheek likewise...

I'm always asking for early finishes in auctions... not because I want to get it cheap but because I want the damn thing now, not the end of next week... heh

so I ask a public question like... hey, how about a $$$ buy now... of course, I cd still loose if someone comes along before I recheck... setting a high price prevents this, I say high since its never happened..

I'm one of the few users around that'll still pay top dollar for anything Amiga...

[Iena]

Well , cebulba you did the same with the amiga game Arena from psygnosys on ebay.de and i also suspect you did the same with little computer people from the same seller , isnt funny ?
Btw i think also denis was wrong.

[dlfrsilver]

well at the end : The game doesn't work, the disk is bitrotted......

Celbulba should thank me, as i lost 75 euros for a non working game.

Imagine if he had paid 150-200 euros for it. What a money-tossing thing !!

[StarEye]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if the "sniper" is the one to blame here. As a seller, I would feel disrespectful to the people who already bid on me to suddenly close down the auction. I think a seller should be morally attached to the auction he's started. As a buyer you want to get the items you want as cheap as possible, and while "sniping" might not be fair - in the end it's the sellers decision what he wants to do. Sure, the "snipers" have a small part in it, but 90% of the blame is on the seller.