Which game you think mainly represents the Amiga?

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by kremiso

a lot of interviews, strange nobody asked the specific question to Chahi

Because there is no questionning about that IMHO.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by sokolovic

Because there is no questionning about that IMHO.

a strange sentence after two pages of discussion about
just to clarify how he was working in specific, combining the time with the two machines

seems a day with more than 24 hours, ofc doing what you love

[Megalomaniac]

Another World isn't a favourite of mine, but it does fit all the definitions of an iconic Amiga game, not only very associated with the machine (used in adverts for a time, even) but also largely developed on the Amiga, and breaking new ground in terms of how cinematic an actiony game could feel. It probably could have existed without the Amiga existing, but even the other versions probably wouldn't have been as good, as probably not as quick to develop either. I'm surprised it took so long into this thread to be mentioned.

[PortuguesePilot]

We're just in too deep. We know way too much and we have our opinions way too ingrained. Thus, I think this question has to be settled from outside of the Amiga realm. People who played on the Amiga and were familiar with it back then but were not amigans or didn't get to develop a strong sentimental attachment to it. With this thread in mind and armed with a little time, I went to my old pals and asked a simple question: "When I talk to you about the Amiga, what game comes to mind?"

I asked about 20 of them and while some gave some surprising answers (like "Beach Volley"), others gave some more expected ones ("Alien Breed", "Pang", "Speedball 2" or "Pinball Dreams") the answer that I heard the most - and I would consider the one that people from outside the Amiga world associate with the Amiga the most - was simply "Sensible Soccer".

"Vox populi, vox Dei."

[kremiso]

David Whittaker before and after Shadow of the Beast :

Q: Which pieces of music do you consider to be the best you made?
A: I don't like anything I do because when I've finished writing it, I am sick of hearing it but, going of other people's comments
I would say that Panther on the C64 and Stormbringer on the Spectrum 128K would tie.

https://st-news.com/issues/st-news-v...avid-whittaker

What was the most difficult tune to write, technically?

David: "Shadow of the Beast", on the Amiga. Because it had to be really good, and different.

https://www.karsmakers.nl/metal-e-zine/david.htm

[Minuous]

Lemmings was the game H&P used for the StormC toolbar and Commodore staff dressed up as. Mindwalker was one of the very first games, was published by Commodore, uses the OS and has the lowest system requirements. So it would probably be one of these two. Or possibly a late Amiga-only masterpiece, eg. DOTC2 or Zeewolf.

[sokolovic]

Originally Posted by kremiso

a lot of interviews, strange nobody asked the specific question to Chahi

prob he was programming on Amiga, and then tranferring the code on ST, day by day

Seems clear here.


https://ichbiah.com/chahi.htm

Initially, Chahi hesitates on a point. Should he develop Another World on the Amiga or on the more widely used Atari ST? Before making a decision, he first tries to determine whether it's possible to display enough polygons on the Atari ST. After a few attempts, it turns out that this is entirely feasible.

Despite his initial unconvincing experience with C programming on the Atari, development tools have evolved, but Chahi fails to find what he's looking for.

Moreover, after a few months of experimenting, Chahi eventually opted to create the initial version of Another World on the Amiga.

"The Amiga remained the machine with the best visual and sound rendering. Plus, Deluxe Paint was only available on the Amiga. Additionally, as I had learned at Chip, it was easier to create games with thousands of colors and then reduce that number on another machine, rather than the reverse."
[...]
"It was really makeshift. Fortunately, there are always solutions to problems. Since real-time digitization didn't exist, I used a Genlock that allowed mixing on the Amiga.

In fact, this factor motivated me to work on the Amiga: it was possible to mix a video image and a computer image; the background color revealed the video image."

[kremiso]

good one, thanks for sharing it
there is the usual not great french to italian browser translation effect
had some laughs, surely better translated in english

[kremiso]

what about Populous? maybe this Molyneux GDC video could lead to some preferences too

[ Show youtube player ]

[Megalomaniac]

Populous is definitely one that defines the 16-bit home computer era, being identical on both Amiga and ST, to the point that you could link the two systems for head-to-head play), even if there was a Master System version (probably PAL only). A brand new idea, strategic yet frantic, lively presentation, huge, complex (yet fairly accessible), highly influential (even if the ideas in it and Mega Lo Mania were largely overlooked by Dune 2, which was the big longer-term influence). It couldn't've have originated on a console, or an 8-bit computer, or in the PC scene of the time. Good shout.

[dreadnought]

Populous is another game mentioned on the first page.

[Megalomaniac]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

Populous is another game mentioned on the first page.

Yes, but it hadn't really been discussed in any detail. I thought I'd pick up on it because it typifies the kind of things that, for me, are why the 16-bit home computer era was such a great time. As discussed in that Guardian-article thread where the notion that the Amiga was 'uncool' seems to upset me less than it does almost all of us, I came in slightly later than most of us, and at a slightly younger age, and that does probably change my perspective. The 'cool' games of the 80s (Beast, Marble Madness, Defender of the Crown, It Came From the Desert, Hybris, Faery Tale Adventure etc) weren't really the narrative of owning an Amiga by 1991 or later. Most of them weren't available anymore (Discovery and MicroIllusions were long gone, Cinemaware never did another non-sports game, and Mirrorsoft's collapse made most of their games unavailable by late 1991), Marble Madness didn't work on 1.3 Amigas let alone 2.0, and the pre-Lemmings Psygnosis stuff was generally considered to look and sound amazing but have issues with (in various cases) repetitiveness / difficulty / unfairness / sheer dullness (look at most of the budget reissues they got around that time for evidence).

I didn't play any of those games back then, and didn't believe I was missing out. While those games clearly showed the Amiga's superiority, and paved the way for many of the later classics, are they actually as good as the later stuff? Honestly, I was surprised at what high averages some of these have on LemonAmiga when I first looked at the site - having played many of them, I agree about some but not all. We largely believed that the newer games were better - and when you look at the Top 100 lists, notice that only 21 of the OCS top 100 is from the 80s (whereas 54 of the 20-vote Worst 100 list are).

Owning an Amiga against the Megadrive / SNES or increasingly powerful PCs was about the Amiga original games which couldn't have originated on those systems - often quirky and inventive, often innovative, also often using the Amiga's advantages for scrolling and sampled sound. Lemmings, Sensi, Cannon Fodder, Speedball 2, Chaos Engine, Settlers, Another World, Alien Breed, Mega Lo Mania, Pinball Dreams perhaps. A matter of perspective, I guess.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

As discussed in that Guardian-article thread where the notion that the Amiga was 'uncool' seems to upset me less than it does almost all of us, I came in slightly later than most of us, and at a slightly younger age, and that does probably change my perspective.

Everybody has their own perspective. Not so sure why it is such a hard concept to grasp that people don't agree with your point of view. The LemonAmiga scores represent most people. That's what an average does. It doesn't mean anything to your own liking of a game.

[gimbal]

Well. You are telling that to a person who calls themselves "Megalomaniac"

[Megalomaniac]

The username is meant as a homage to Mega Lo Mania, one of my favourite games. I can see now why it might be misconstrued though.

Anyway, my comment wasn't meant as criticising other people's opinions, or the specific games chosen - most of which will have been mindblowing compared to what was on other systems. The bit about 'the cool games of the 80s' was intended as my [perception of those games as a young, new Amiga owner a bit later, rather than necessarily a fair factual summary of the quality of the games. The surprise at the Lemon averages that I referenced was formed while having not really played those games, while not believing that I'd missed out by not playing them. 'We' being us younger latecomers like myself. Sorry if I didn't explain myself. If I'd got an Amiga at 13 years old in 1988, maybe I'd be choosing those earlier games?

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Megalomaniac

The username is meant as a homage to Mega Lo Mania, one of my favourite games. I can see now why it might be misconstrued though.

Anyway, my comment wasn't meant as criticising other people's opinions, or the specific games chosen - most of which will have been mindblowing compared to what was on other systems. The bit about 'the cool games of the 80s' was intended as my [perception of those games as a young, new Amiga owner a bit later, rather than necessarily a fair factual summary of the quality of the games. The surprise at the Lemon averages that I referenced was formed while having not really played those games, while not believing that I'd missed out by not playing them. 'We' being us younger latecomers like myself. Sorry if I didn't explain myself. If I'd got an Amiga at 13 years old in 1988, maybe I'd be choosing those earlier games?

I still don't quite see what your point is. You say Populous is great (1989) but It Came From the Desert (1989) "uncool"?

I also got Amiga very "late", circa 1991, but to me it didn't matter what year a game was released: coming from 8-bits they were all super cool.
I can see that you can make this point from a "playground conversation" POV, but this angle really belongs to the Guardian thread I think.

Of course, it's a given that games which come later in a systems life are more advanced, mostly fx-wise, but it really doesn't render the earlier ones worse, in most cases. It might be subjective, ok, but imo Defender Of The Crown is still as supremely playable as it ever was (especially DotC2 which is basically what it would be if it wasn't rushed), and so is Hybris, Mindwalker, Indy Adventure and all the other good games from that era

[Megalomaniac]

Oddly, my perception is of things like It Came From the Desert being 'cooler' than things like Populous. I do need to spend more time with the Cinemaware games in general, actually, though I always preferred games to films, so I was never that drawn to the idea of games which were more filmlike - though I do understand why this is a minority position. 'Interactive movies' (where the film to game ratio was higher than the Cinemaware stuff) were a massive turn-off for me, but not getting a PC until the Windows 95 era means that I largely missed those. Though I did play MegaRace and enjoyed it more than I expected to.

Hybris is one game I was barely aware of during my actual Amiga ownership time, that I've discovered in the emulation era and ended up loving. I'm obviously explaining myself poorly, so I'll leave it there.

[gimbal]

Megarace 3 was pretty okayish, it's Wipeout with Lance Boyle. Can't say I have much love for the first two except for the intermissions with the aforementioned Lance Boyle, the first game has really wonky on-rails gameplay and the second one makes the enemies cheat by speeding up when they're behind you, it's like being stalked by mosquitos.

[deladrevoc]

Originally Posted by eXeler0

Defender of the Crown
Shadow of the Beast
….
F/A18 Interceptor
Kick Off / 2
Lemmings

My choices too, with the exception of Lemmings, but only because I'm seriously late to the party!

Looking for some time in my life to play Lemmings, I own all the originals

[ZEUSDAZ]

Two games, HYBRIS & CHAOS ENGINE!!!!!!