Shinobi Arcade Conversion

[touko]

I don't want to end up with a shitty cut-down version like the one we already have.

I agree, but unfortunately they are inevitable.The official conversion is simply rushed, so it cannot be opimal .

Not difficult but tedious and with an average result.

You can see the megadrive version, it's an homebrew, and the author hasn't the original code too .
[ Show youtube player ]

Then you don't have the same behaviour of the enemies

The game is not really complicated to understand, on YT you can find all the secrets about the game without any difficulty.

I'm sure that it's the reason of so many unfinished ports.

You can see that the MD version,even unfinished, has all the GP done, and all the levels are done too, it's the finishes that are missing .

[jotd]

Originally Posted by touko

I agree, but unfortunately they are inevitable.The official conversion is simply rushed, so it cannot be opimal .

Rushed, but done by people paid for this

You can see the megadrive version, it's an homebrew, and the author hasn't the original code too .
[ Show youtube player ]

this is impressive. But as I said, unfinished Noone has the original code, but it's 68k so it can be used almost as-is. It's a pity to re-develop all the logic.

The game is not really complicated to understand, on YT you can find all the secrets about the game without any difficulty.

I know this game very well, and I already coded a few games with the "specs" of the original, for instance PacMan. But animations & other stuff is tedious to reproduce, also this game is way more complex than PacMan. The enemy & tile layout would still need to be ripped

You can see that the MD version,even unfinished, has all the GP done, and all the levels are done too, it's the finishes that are missing .

It's a great effort. But unfinished, like most exhausting tasks where the author got bored after the initial hype.

[ZEUSDAZ]

As a fan, Shinobi was the shits for Amiga standards, a bad day at the Sales Curve office ------->
[ Show youtube player ]

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by jotd

The original arcade is 68000 so no need to transcode anything



I don't want to end up with a shitty cut-down version like the one we already have. If I had to do this I'll do it with AGA, and even with AGA it would require concessions.



Not difficult but tedious and with an average result. Then you don't have the same behaviour of the enemies, and you spend ages tuning the A.I or speeds. I'm sure that it's the reason of so many unfinished ports.

I honestly think on AGA machines this could be near arcade perfect.
There is some parallax but I would imagine the most difficult part would be the bonus shuriken stages and keeping the framerate.

Have to say those bonus stages back in the day looked absolutely stunning when all I had was my lowly Amstrad CPC lol.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by ZEUSDAZ

As a fan, Shinobi was the shits for Amiga standards, a bad day at the Sales Curve office ------->
[ Show youtube player ]

Yes, graphically it doesn't look like much & the framerate sucks BUT

- they retained parallax scrolling, even if the scrolling is anything but smooth
- the behaviour and enemy placement and all looks very similar to the arcade.
- the enemy & main character moves are there. It's just choopy & washed down.

Looks to me like a failed attempt to reproduce the arcade faithfully, because OCS just cannot cope with the original hardware. We'll wait for any OCS versions or mockups, even using Scorpion, let's see it any are better?

Personally I'd like to get my hands on the sprites, with proper indexing vs original code, as MAME doesn't allow to display or rip them for this particular game.

[sokolovic]

Isn't the Scorpion Engine perfectly suited for this kind of game ?

[touko]

Looks to me like a failed attempt to reproduce the arcade faithfully, because OCS just cannot cope with the original hardware. We'll wait for any OCS versions or mockups, even using Scorpion, let's see it any are better?

If you expect to have the same version than arcade one on a home console/PC i think it's not possible, or you should aim the NG or X68000 .
The goal is to be close as possible and using the hardware at it's max .

Isn't the Scorpion Engine perfectly suited for this kind of game ?

Suited ? i don't know, but i think you can do a good version with it, but the the best will be using full ASM and an engine tailored for this game .

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by jotd

Yes, graphically it doesn't look like much & the framerate sucks BUT

- they retained parallax scrolling, even if the scrolling is anything but smooth
- the behaviour and enemy placement and all looks very similar to the arcade.
- the enemy & main character moves are there. It's just choopy & washed down.

Looks to me like a failed attempt to reproduce the arcade faithfully, because OCS just cannot cope with the original hardware. We'll wait for any OCS versions or mockups, even using Scorpion, let's see it any are better?

Personally I'd like to get my hands on the sprites, with proper indexing vs original code, as MAME doesn't allow to display or rip them for this particular game.

I have them, but no one was interested.

If you want the arcade 68000 program i can export it

[acidbottle]

Well I've tinkered with the idea of this in Scorpion, on and off for ages. A prototype would be easy enough, have the maps and main char sprites all ripped for a start. The polish and finishing is another thing.

Ultimately, it would not be an easy ask in Scorp. Fantastic as it is, there are some stumbling blocks that require clever tricks, the super power ninja screen fx for one! Unless major compromises are made it would also have to be AGA, though annoyingly much could be done in 32 colour am sure, maybe even 16 with some real clever palette changes.

To do this justice would really need asm and you can count on one hand the amount of people willing and/or capable to tear down and rebuild an amiga version in asm from scratch.

[jotd]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

I have them, but no one was interested.

If you want the arcade 68000 program i can export it

I AM interested. I think I can rip the 68000 program myself from MAME but send all you have if it's not too much hassle.

To do this justice would really need asm and you can count on one hand the amount of people willing and/or capable to tear down and rebuild an amiga version in asm from scratch.

I'm not in the hand. That's not how I would tackle the problem. I would rebuild an amiga version from the original arcade code.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by jotd

I AM interested. I think I can rip the 68000 program myself from MAME but send all you have if it's not too much hassle.


I'm not in the hand. That's not how I would tackle the problem. I would rebuild an amiga version from the original arcade code.

Ok, let me prepare the archive with the sprites

Awesome if you can modify the arcade engine 68000 ASM code for the amiga

I'll join also the decrypted version of the shinobi arcade code

[reassembler]

Originally Posted by jotd

I AM interested. I think I can rip the 68000 program myself from MAME but send all you have if it's not too much hassle.

I'm not in the hand. That's not how I would tackle the problem. I would rebuild an amiga version from the original arcade code.

Jotd - If you think you might benefit from any of the Sega sprite/tiles stuff I've been working on, give me a shout. It's quite c2p bound though.

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by reassembler

Jotd - If you think you might benefit from any of the Sega sprite/tiles stuff I've been working on, give me a shout. It's quite c2p bound though.

The Sega Systems use a mix between planar graphics for the tiles background, and the sprites are in bitmap chunky format.

I have all the sprites with the correct palettes

[reassembler]

Also my sprite ripper is here:
https://reassembler.blogspot.com/202...-palettes.html

[dlfrsilver]

Originally Posted by reassembler

Also my sprite ripper is here:
https://reassembler.blogspot.com/202...-palettes.html

I could have used it, but it's incompatible with X86 platforms. I don't have any 64bits computer at home yet.

[touko]

Originally Posted by dlfrsilver

The Sega Systems use a mix between planar graphics for the tiles background, and the sprites are in bitmap chunky format.

I have all the sprites with the correct palettes

The usefull thing would be to have sprites and backgrounds in their bitmap mode, and not in tile mode .

[jotd]

tile mode is the best to be able to reuse the original code.

[acidbottle]

Originally Posted by jotd

I AM interested. I think I can rip the 68000 program myself from MAME but send all you have if it's not too much hassle.


I'm not in the hand. That's not how I would tackle the problem. I would rebuild an amiga version from the original arcade code.

I wasn't aware the Shinobi source code was available, or do you simply not need it here? That said, regardless, if you convert this that will be a massive achievement and a nice step up from those already impressive 8 bit ports.

[jotd]

I said "original arcade code" not "original arcade source code". It's 68000 so there is less need for reverse-engineering as no transcode should be needed. A bit like patching a game with whdload, except that instead of patching protection & disk loading, you'd have to fix all graphics & controls & sounds.

If we consider Rolling thunder, source is not available either, but it's using dual M6809. The sprites & tiles are easier to rip (from MAME) and graphics are simpler but the dual M6809 without source part is a challenge for me ATM.

[touko]

Originally Posted by jotd

tile mode is the best to be able to reuse the original code.

I mean tile mode just a vram/rom capture .
You have to reassemble those tiles, by hand to rebuild your backgrounds/sprites .
Do you think that this kind of data, is really exploitable ?




Without the tilemap, those tiles are useless .

Personally I'd like to get my hands on the sprites, with proper indexing vs original code, as MAME doesn't allow to display or rip them for this particular game.

I agree, all the graphic datas from arcade have been ripped by the author of the MD version and it is from these that i'am doing the supergrafx version .So those datas are really easy to find .