Outrun AGA

[TCD]

Originally Posted by agermose

Great, now we just need to figure out who AngerMouse is

Might be a cousin of Danger Mouse

[agermose]

Originally Posted by tcd

might be a cousin of danger mouse

:-)

[lifeschool]

^ Fixed.

[Adrian Browne]

Angermouse is a great name too. Sometimes typos are gold

[malko]

Typos or "stupid"-AI dictionary changing automatically what you have typed ?

[lifeschool]

Malko - My typos. I've got stupid word blindness, so I probably just misread it.

Is this the same project?

[ Show youtube player ]

[Marconelly]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Is this the same project?

[ Show youtube player ]

That's a different one, made by Reassembler, the author of Cannonball, the OutRun arcade reinterpreter engine. That one targets 030 accelerated AGA machines as minimum, and is meant to be more or less completely arcade faithful.


The one discussed in this thread is as far as I understand done with more Amiga-specific optimizations, while still using game logic from the disassembled aracade ROM, and it targets unexpanded A1200 as a minimum spec.

[Adrian Browne]

Originally Posted by lifeschool

Malko - My typos. I've got stupid word blindness, so I probably just misread it.

Is this the same project?

[ Show youtube player ]

This is our version
[ Show youtube player ]

[lifeschool]

Ah thanks for sorting out the confusion.

Both versions look very exciting and professionally done.

Their version seems a bit choppier than the arcade original, and then it hit me, the original was NTSC, so 60hz and not just 50hz.

Probably an (unexpanded, really??) A1200 can get 14 fps, but expanded could be 16-18? and NTSC 20fps?

I am guessing that a PAL version of Out Run would just take up too much cycle time, but your version seems 100% PAL?
Of course, just trying to help with your idea. Whatever you release will be fine by us Amiga '39 years later' users.

[str0m]

Arcade original is 30fps as are versions on the Dreamcast etc. The Saturn had a JP release which allows a 'smooth' 60fps mode which is loverlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by str0m

Arcade original is 30fps as are versions on the Dreamcast etc. The Saturn had a JP release which allows a 'smooth' 60fps mode which is loverlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I found the 60 frames removed the sense of speed when I played that version. I mean 60 frames is lovely and smooth but sometimes in games where they've been designed at 30, they lose an aspect of weight and speed. I was playing Halo CE on the Master Chief Collection and noticed the same thing there regards to the impact of your shooting feeling less impacting now that it's 60. I find slapping 60 on everything these days just because we can isn't always for the best of the experience

[reassembler]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

I found the 60 frames removed the sense of speed when I played that version. I mean 60 frames is lovely and smooth but sometimes in games where they've been designed at 30, they lose an aspect of weight and speed. I was playing Halo CE on the Master Chief Collection and noticed the same thing there regards to the impact of your shooting feeling less impacting now that it's 60. I find slapping 60 on everything these days just because we can isn't always for the best of the experience

There is something wrong with the Saturn 60fps mode, which is why I suspect it was hidden behind a cheat menu. I've not really been able to put my finger on what it is exactly though. I'd have to watch it frame by frame.

The M2 versions of OutRun for the Switch and 3DS have a 60fps mode that feels right. CannonBall also does.

The Arcade machine itself runs at 30fps for the road and sprite updates, 60fps for the tilemap scrolling. So it's a hybrid.

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by reassembler

There is something wrong with the Saturn 60fps mode, which is why I suspect it was hidden behind a cheat menu. I've not really been able to put my finger on what it is exactly though. I'd have to watch it frame by frame.

The M2 versions of OutRun for the Switch and 3DS have a 60fps mode that feels right. CannonBall also does.

The Arcade machine itself runs at 30fps for the road and sprite updates, 60fps for the tilemap scrolling. So it's a hybrid.

oh thanks that's interesting and I would like to see how Cannonball feels as a result then. The 3d being 30 is I believe what makes for the sensation of speed feeling reduced from how I perceive it at least but I'll give it a go cheers

[agermose]

Some clarifications about technical details.
This port uses blitter, copper hw sprites etc.
PAL only, 288x224 resolution, 32 colour mode.

It runs at a variable framerate, while the arcade runs most things at 30 fps. See also reassemblers post.
Making the original code run at a variable framerate, did pose a few challenges, but it’s done.
Without all the juicy hw of the arcade the blitter has to process all the massive sprites. The larger the scene, the slower the framerate.
The worst part is converting 30 fps to PAL 25 fps. It is not fully solved yet, but I will get it done.

The goal is to get A1200 with fast ram running at 25-17fps, with occasional drops to 13.
A1200 chip only I hope to get running at 17-13 fps.

2mb chip mem only and all 15 stages, is also a nice Challenge :-)

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by agermose

Without all the juicy he of the arcade the blitter has to process all the massive sprites. The larger the scene, the slower the framerate.

Well, I am not sure how arcade accurate you aim to be, but personally, I think with less pillars it can look more interesting.

Check it out at 1:25

And especially at 1:31
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[ Show youtube player ]


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I personally think that with less and more spread pillars, even Arcade would look better, because it would give it more organic feel (not just.. 11111.... 11111... 11111), instead it would be better (11... 1.... 111... 11... 1... )
If you get what I mean.
As for long tunnel made out of pillars at 1:31, I also think that every 4th pillar would be more interesting then this.

Now, this might made mad hardcore Outrun fans , but I do think that this "compromise" would actually give it a plus in visual department.

[agermose]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Well, I am not sure how arcade accurate you aim to be, but personally, I think with less pillars it can look more interesting.

Check it out at 1:25

And especially at 1:31
-------------------------
[ Show youtube player ]


--------------------------

I personally think that with less and more spread pillars, even Arcade would look better, because it would give it more organic feel (not just.. 11111.... 11111... 11111), instead it would be better (11... 1.... 111... 11... 1... )
If you get what I mean.
As for long tunnel made out of pillars at 1:31, I also think that every 4th pillar would be more interesting then this.

Now, this might made mad hardcore Outrun fans , but I don't think that this "compromise" would actually give it a plus in visual department.

I get it :-)
So far all scenery is there, with identical patterns.
For A1200 chip I’ll trim some scenery. Stage 2b is even worse. I’ll probably trim that on fastram as well.
I did have the pillars running at 13-17 fps in WinUAE A1200 fastram.
Not tested that sequence on real hw yet.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by agermose

Stage 2b is even worse.

What second of the video is that part?

If it's the cliffs from both sides.. again.. I don't like the reportativity in original outrun, and I think more interesting thing would be to cut cliff to 3 sizes (small, medium, big), and make them appear randomly.

Anyway, keep up the amazing work!

[agermose]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

What second of the video is that part?

If it's the cliffs from both sides.. again.. I don't like the reportativity in original outrun, and I think more interesting thing would be to cut cliff to 3 sizes (small, medium, big), and make them appear randomly.

Anyway, keep up the amazing work!

Yes the rock face, on both sides.

[malko]

Originally Posted by agermose

Some clarifications about technical details.
This port uses blitter, copper hw sprites etc.
PAL only, 288x224 resolution, 32 colour mode.
[...]
2mb chip mem only and all 15 stages, is also a nice Challenge :-)

Do you plan a loader à la "Ninja Warriors" or will the game be loaded in ram (from floppy or from HD) prior the game play ? I think a loader could help with such game.

[agermose]

Originally Posted by malko

Do you plan a loader à la "Ninja Warriors" or will the game be loaded in ram (from floppy or from HD) prior the game play ? I think a loader could help with such game.

Dynamic loading from floppy each stage, is the plan. There is no way everything fits in 2mb.
Don’t know much about hd loading. I’m not sure whdload is possible.