Hyperion Dead?

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Minuous

That's not what the Settlement Agreement says.

This thing about "giving it back to the community" doesn't make any sense, the OS did not come from "the community" in the first place. I don't hear any calls that MorphOS, MacOS, etc. should be "given back to the community", so I'm not sure why the double standard here.

Could you elaborate on that? Or at least nudge into the right direction?

[Minuous]

It's there in clause 1b on page 3 of the Settlement Agreement.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Minuous

It's there in clause 1b on page 3 of the Settlement Agreement.

Software" means Amiga OS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation its Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994.

(a) Hyperion acknowledges that the Amiga Parties are the owners of the Software, without prejudice to any third parties with rights in said Software. The Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 (with the exception of the Software), without prejudice to any third parties with rights in said software.

(b) Without prejudice to any Existing License Agreements listed on Exhibit 1, the Amiga Parties hereby grant Hyperion (at Hyperion's sole expense) an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and Object Code and Source Code license to the Software in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market the Software in any form (including through sublicensing), on any medium (now known or otherwise), through any means (including but not limited to making AmigaOS 4 available to the public via the internet) and for any current or future hardware platform. For the avoidance of doubt with respect to the exclusive nature of the license granted to Hyperion for the Software (but without prejudice to any Existing License Agreements listed on Exhibit 1), the Amiga Parties shall during the term of this Agreement not commercialize anywhere in the world (including through sub-licensing), distribute (free of charge or otherwise) or make available to the public (free of charge or otherwise), in any way or form (including but not limited to Object Code and Source Code form), on any medium (now known or otherwise) and through any means (now known or otherwise) the Software (in part or as a whole) and any Operating System exhibiting a Software Architecture substantially similar to the Software Architecture of the Software as described in the Documentation, to the extent that such Software Architecture is protectable under the copyright laws of the United States (a "Substantially Similar Software Architecture"). For the avoidance of doubt, (i) on the Effective Date, AmigaDE and AmigaAnywhere are not Operating Systems exhibiting a Substantially Similar Software Architecture, (ii) the Amiga Parties may develop, market, license and sell Operating Systems that do not exhibit a Substantially Similar Software Architecture (including without limitation AmigaDE and AmigaAnywhere (under such trademarks)), so long as such Operating Systems do not use the Exclusive Licensed Marks (as defined below) or the phrase "Amiga operating system," (iii) AmigaDE and AmigaAnywhere may be identified as the AmigaDE operating system and the AmigaAnywhere operating system, respectively, and (iv) Amiga may distribute the Software in Object Code form

(c) Solely for the purposes of marketing, distributing and making available AmigaOS 4 and any hardware required or desired to operate with AmigaOS 4, the Amiga Parties grant Hyperion an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and license to use the Exclusive Licensed Marks, and a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and license to use the "Boing Ball" logo mark. For the avoidance of doubt with respect to the exclusive nature of the license granted to the Exclusive Licensed Marks, the Amiga Parties shall during the term of this Agreement not have the right to use, commercialize or license the Exclusive Licensed Marks in any way anywhere in the world; provided, however, that the Amiga Parties may use the mark "AMIGA" alone or in conjunction with other words, so long as "OS" or "One" does not directly follow the word "AMIGA." The Amiga Parties represent and warrant that there are no other license agreements with respect to the Exclusive Licensed Marks other than those listed on Exhibit 1.

2009 Settlement

This settlement?

[Minuous]

Yes.

Note also the definition of AmigaOS 4 on page 1, you probably should have quoted that part too.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Yes.

Note also the definition of AmigaOS 4 on page 1, you probably should have quoted that part too.

This?

"AmigaOS 4" means the Operating System developed by Hyperion and based in part on the Software, including without limitation the Software Architecture of the Software as described in the Documentation, in any version (irrespective of version numbering, e.g., AmigaOS 5).

It's in dispute that AmigaOS 4 belongs to Hyperion? That is new

[Minuous]

The point I was making is that "AmigaOS 4" throughout that document means any version of AmigaOS, it needs to be read in that context.

[pixie]

No it doesn't, to be that way it would have to be defined as such.

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by pixie

No it doesn't, to be that way it would have to be defined as such.

It is defined exactly as such, in the "Definitions" part.

[amigakit.com]

After 20 years the lessons to be learned are not to rely on Hyperion to be a vehicle for long term development and system releases. If you work for them, you likey end up loosing your code and the programs you are passionate about getting out to the community get entangled in legal processes beyond your control. This has happened to dozens of developers over the last two decades. However every new developer they entice thinks it will not happen to them.

We understood this many years ago and started developing an independent system free from these legal disputes. The A600GS will be the first Classic 68k compatible system to showcase AmiBench. The benefit of using your own software base is we pay Amiga developers directly for their hard work keeping the money in our community. The revenue does not flow back to licensors who can use it to fund lawyers.

[malko]

Originally Posted by pixie

No it doesn't, to be that way it would have to be defined as such.

This is exactly what is written/understandable in the quote you have made in post #85 : https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=85 .
That it please/unplease some is something different, but the wording is here.

"AmigaOS 4" means the Operating System developed by Hyperion and based in part on the Software, including without limitation the Software Architecture of the Software as described in the Documentation, in any version (irrespective of version numbering, e.g., AmigaOS 5).

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by amigakit.com

the programs you are passionate about getting out to the community get entangled

That would *never* happen to OS3 Enhancer Software components that were written and announced eight years ago, for example, would it? :-P https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=82644

[pixie]

Originally Posted by malko

This is exactly what is written/understandable in the quote you have made in post #85 : https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=85 .
That it please/unplease some is something different, but the wording is here.

Lol, AmigaOS 4 now equals to Workbench 3.1 (ie-Software definition). Perhaps it never crossed your mind it is worded this was ("of the") a way to legitimize the use Software in the development of AmigaOS 4... It's not even I saying this, previous Hyperion owners Evert Carton saying it.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by malko

That it please/unplease some is something different, but the wording is here.

That wording is indeed so vague that it should include any version of OS 3 that Hyperion 'developed'.

[Deaths_Head]

From what I gather especially after Amigakits statement, the sooner Hyperion shuffle off this mortal coil the better.

[Seiya]

Originally Posted by amigakit.com

We understood this many years ago and started developing an independent system free from these legal disputes.

Releasing anything in this Amiga Community, before or later, the risk to finish in legal disputes is very high

[kriz]

Originally Posted by Deaths_Head

From what I gather especially after Amigakits statement, the sooner Hyperion shuffle off this mortal coil the better.

What will happen ? Cloanto still sit on all the rights and never do anything ..

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by amigakit.com

After 20 years the lessons to be learned are not to rely on Hyperion to be a vehicle for long term development and system releases. If you work for them, you likey end up loosing your code and the programs you are passionate about getting out to the community get entangled in legal processes beyond your control. This has happened to dozens of developers over the last two decades. However every new developer they entice thinks it will not happen to them.

We understood this many years ago and started developing an independent system free from these legal disputes. The A600GS will be the first Classic 68k compatible system to showcase AmiBench. The benefit of using your own software base is we pay Amiga developers directly for their hard work keeping the money in our community. The revenue does not flow back to licensors who can use it to fund lawyers.

you mean Amibench is completely independent of 3.X components that are in any way releated to Hyperion? What desktop does it use? Scalos?

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by kriz

What will happen ? Cloanto still sit on all the rights and never do anything ..

best would be there would be a agreement, but I fear it will not happen

I do not think Cloanto would try or want to destroy amigaos. I more assume they want to make money with licensing of brands or roms. Development will be outside. But we will see when there is a decision

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

you mean Amibench is completely independent of 3.X components that are in any way releated to Hyperion? What desktop does it use? Scalos?

Looks like they are using the "AmiBench desktop environment"

Whatever this is based on .. will we ever find out?

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by amigakit.com

We understood this many years ago and started developing an independent system free from these legal disputes. The A600GS will be the first Classic 68k compatible system to showcase AmiBench. The benefit of using your own software base is we pay Amiga developers directly for their hard work keeping the money in our community. The revenue does not flow back to licensors who can use it to fund lawyers.

Was there a specific reason not to use (and enhance) AROS-68K.
If so, what was it?

Any guaranty this "hard work" will not end up like so many other closed source reimplementations (Jazzbench, p.OS, AOS 3.9, ...)?

What happens to it if Amigakit eventually goes the way of 99.9% of all Amiga companies?
Do we end up with an other dead end?