WinUAE unstable framerate since 3.4.0b1 - Page 4

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 13:44

Oh I´m glad i found this post! I really hate microstutter and has had this problem for years now (aparantly since 3.3 version). I´ve had minor crackles (audio crackle) here there but I can reliably reproduce the bug in Xtreme Racing CD32 version. If i run 040 with fast as possible and JIT it audio crackles up and the game almost freezes. But if i lower JIT cache size to 1Mb and lower cpu speed to maximum 190% it never crackles up. I admit I don´t know what I´m doing

but if it starts to crackle it seems i have to toggle some Advance JIT Setting to reset it, Hard flush or direct to indirect seems to flush the lag/crackle away. I tried the "3.3" version of WinUAE and I cant get it to trigger the crackle!

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 13:54

Here is a log when I´m running the game fast as possible full cache size then changing to 1Mb cache and cpu 190% and the indirect direct and hardflush toggle to get it smooth again.

hexaae · 07 January 2021, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by boondoggle

Oh I´m glad i found this post! I really hate microstutter and has had this problem for years now (aparantly since 3.3 version). I´ve had minor crackles (audio crackle) here there but I can reliably reproduce the bug in Xtreme Racing CD32 version. If i run 040 with fast as possible and JIT it audio crackles up and the game almost freezes. But if i lower JIT cache size to 1Mb and lower cpu speed to maximum 190% it never crackles up. I admit I don´t know what I´m doing

but if it starts to crackle it seems i have to toggle some Advance JIT Setting to reset it, Hard flush or direct to indirect seems to flush the lag/crackle away. I tried the "3.3" version of WinUAE and I cant get it to trigger the crackle!

Let's try to help Toni find what has changed...
I noticed it all started with >= 3.4.0b1, can you please confirm?
3.4.0b1 download: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1107166&postcount=1

Toni Wilen · 07 January 2021, 15:43

Lets keep config standard A500/A1200/CD32 only. Too many unknown variables when using fastest possible, JIT etc..

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 16:02

I really like to help. I seems to be unable to get hold of that 3.4.0b1?
@Toni I actually triggered the crackling using nothing but 020 and "+0%" cpu speed.
I had it all in a windowed mode and i decided to go out and start task manager. When i started task manager crackling started. And also when i started the browser. Is it some kind of non focused window thing?

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 16:07

I´ll add that I´m on quite an old cpu rig here. i7 860. But I doubt that has anything to do with it. Earlier today i tried to see if cpu usage was too high and i noticed some that we uae only uses one core (as most programs do) and that it actually spiked when that crackling appeared. That was why i was starting it during this test as well.

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 16:19

On 3.4.0 x64 (not beta) i had to use JIT and fast as possible and start task manager to get a small crackle. One more thing I noticed is that the game run really slow (CPU boost doesnt seem to work at all?) on newer UAE with JIT 020 and fast as possible compared to 3.4.0 and 3.3.0.

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 16:35

32bit and 64bit version seem identical, are they? Problem existed in 32bit (4.4.0) as well though.

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 16:50

I could get 3.3.0 to crackle up aswell if I started IntelBurnTest to max the cpu usage.

DamienD · 07 January 2021, 16:52

Why do people insist on using JIT when playing games?

It's totally not necessary; and can cause issues.

Out of the 3220 games I've setup in my collection; only 27 have JIT enabled... but these are very intensive RTG games like "Heretic & Hexen", "Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy", "Quake" and "ScummVM games".

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Why do people insist on using JIT when playing games?

It's totally not necessary; and can cause issues.

Out of the 3220 games I've setup in my collection; only 27 have JIT enabled... but these are very intensive RTG games like "Heretic & Hexen", "Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy", "Quake" and "ScummVM games".

And that´s why I use it aswell. And i don´t want to switch setting for each game since i run them all from one image. I noticed that your able to feedback settings from WHDLoad to settings back to WinUAE? Maybe that could solve the issue in the end.

boondoggle · 07 January 2021, 17:15

I turned JIT off and the problems still starts around +240% cpu speed (040/060).

DamienD · 07 January 2021, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by boondoggle

And that´s why I use it aswell. And i don´t want to switch setting for each game since i run them all from one image. I noticed that your able to feedback settings from WHDLoad to settings back to WinUAE? Maybe that could solve the issue in the end.

Exactly, turn off JIT before starting any WHDLoad game from inside emulation if you must.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boondoggle

I turned JIT off and the problems still starts around +240% cpu speed (040/060).

Same thing really, why would you also need to use "Fastest possible" or any "+ CPU speed" for any WHDLoad game?

Toni Wilen · 07 January 2021, 18:01

This is getting offtopic! This thread is not about usual PC being too slow and newer WinUAE versions needing more CPU power.

This thread is about having fast PC and still having unstable framerate (microstutters etc) even in basic A500 config.

Retro-Nerd · 07 January 2021, 18:18

Quote:

This thread is about having fast PC and still having unstable framerate (microstutters etc) even in basic A500 config.

Did you actually find a useful test case for this "issue"? Since i couldn't find something odd in newer WinUAE versions (compared to older), micro-stutter related. At least not with hexaae suggested games. Or is it a nVida+G-sync only problem? AMD+Freesync seems fine here.

Toni Wilen · 07 January 2021, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Did you actually find a useful test case for this "issue"? Since i couldn't find something odd in newer WinUAE versions (compared to older), micro-stutter related. At least not with hexaae suggested games. Or is it a nVida+G-sync only problem? AMD+Freesync seems fine here.

I didn't test yet. Currently with my new G-Sync compatible monitor scrolling appears to be smooth again but I haven't stared at it multiple minutes yet.

And this thread contains far too much noise but not much scientific tests (except from one person) so there is nothing that can be proven.

My guess is "pull" mode WASAPI which reduces latency but reduced latency also introduces more strict timing requirements. Especially if DSOUND still works mostly the same. Better sync to sound output timing might help but it might cause other issues.

hexaae · 09 January 2021, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

4.5.0b14 seems to have reintroduced some rare micro-lags (fps most of the time between 49-50) with games like Fantastic Dizzy AGA I forgot up to 4.5.0b12. Also sound has a bit more "crackles" than usual... mmh

b15 seems to have reverted the situation (good thing) and those games run again 99% fine for me now...

07 January 2021, 13:44	#61
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	Oh I´m glad i found this post! I really hate microstutter and has had this problem for years now (aparantly since 3.3 version). I´ve had minor crackles (audio crackle) here there but I can reliably reproduce the bug in Xtreme Racing CD32 version. If i run 040 with fast as possible and JIT it audio crackles up and the game almost freezes. But if i lower JIT cache size to 1Mb and lower cpu speed to maximum 190% it never crackles up. I admit I don´t know what I´m doing but if it starts to crackle it seems i have to toggle some Advance JIT Setting to reset it, Hard flush or direct to indirect seems to flush the lag/crackle away. I tried the "3.3" version of WinUAE and I cant get it to trigger the crackle! Last edited by boondoggle; 07 January 2021 at 14:08.

07 January 2021, 16:19	#67
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	On 3.4.0 x64 (not beta) i had to use JIT and fast as possible and start task manager to get a small crackle. One more thing I noticed is that the game run really slow (CPU boost doesnt seem to work at all?) on newer UAE with JIT 020 and fast as possible compared to 3.4.0 and 3.3.0. Last edited by boondoggle; 07 January 2021 at 16:36.

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07 January 2021, 15:43	#64
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,627	Lets keep config standard A500/A1200/CD32 only. Too many unknown variables when using fastest possible, JIT etc..

07 January 2021, 16:02	#65
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	I really like to help. I seems to be unable to get hold of that 3.4.0b1? @Toni I actually triggered the crackling using nothing but 020 and "+0%" cpu speed. I had it all in a windowed mode and i decided to go out and start task manager. When i started task manager crackling started. And also when i started the browser. Is it some kind of non focused window thing?

07 January 2021, 16:07	#66
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	I´ll add that I´m on quite an old cpu rig here. i7 860. But I doubt that has anything to do with it. Earlier today i tried to see if cpu usage was too high and i noticed some that we uae only uses one core (as most programs do) and that it actually spiked when that crackling appeared. That was why i was starting it during this test as well.

07 January 2021, 16:35	#68
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	32bit and 64bit version seem identical, are they? Problem existed in 32bit (4.4.0) as well though.

07 January 2021, 16:50	#69
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	I could get 3.3.0 to crackle up aswell if I started IntelBurnTest to max the cpu usage.

07 January 2021, 16:52	#70
DamienD disengaged Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 44 Posts: 19,522	Why do people insist on using JIT when playing games? It's totally not necessary; and can cause issues. Out of the 3220 games I've setup in my collection; only 27 have JIT enabled... but these are very intensive RTG games like "Heretic & Hexen", "Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy", "Quake" and "ScummVM games".

07 January 2021, 17:15	#72
boondoggle Registered User Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Sweden Posts: 25	I turned JIT off and the problems still starts around +240% cpu speed (040/060).

07 January 2021, 18:01	#74
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,627	This is getting offtopic! This thread is not about usual PC being too slow and newer WinUAE versions needing more CPU power. This thread is about having fast PC and still having unstable framerate (microstutters etc) even in basic A500 config.

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