What Makes The Amiga CD32 The Best Amiga?

[jotd]

err no it's not trivial to properly read CD32 buttons. In fact, lowlevel library fails to do it properly on some A1200 motherboards because of a timing issue. And all custom code to read joypads fail when a standard joystick (2 button) is used.

But with the proper routine, it's possible on all classic amigas (not on vampire)

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Konrad

On a base cd32 you can't attach a keyboard

Actually, you can.
Both mouse and keyboard.
As Skan say, I even think there was some official keyboards for that... not sure.

How I remember this?
Well, back in the day, when I was desperate to have the Amiga, but didn't had enough money, one of the options I thought was to purchase first CD32 (that was cheaper then A1200), and after some time, to just purchase keyboard and mouse.
I remember magazines that had ads where people were doing these hack's for Cd32.

[-Acid-]

Originally Posted by FOL

2. So, it had S-Video. Which was a good enough compromise (they were a standard on TV's back then, like scart).

I've never seen a single TV with an s-video port on it in - imo this was not a common standard on tv's in the UK at any time. RGB scart on the other hand was and it was either abolute incompetence or utter cheapness that they did not put it on the CD32.

[-Acid-]

Originally Posted by Konrad

On a base cd32 you can't attach a keyboard.

The A4000 keyboard plugs straight into the AUX port and you can also use A2000 keyboards with a din coverter.

[lmimmfn]

Originally Posted by jotd

err no it's not trivial to properly read CD32 buttons. In fact, lowlevel library fails to do it properly on some A1200 motherboards because of a timing issue. And all custom code to read joypads fail when a standard joystick (2 button) is used.

But with the proper routine, it's possible on all classic amigas (not on vampire)

Why not on vampire?

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by jotd

err no it's not trivial to properly read CD32 buttons. In fact, lowlevel library fails to do it properly on some A1200 motherboards because of a timing issue.

I guess "trivial" is subjective - I found it very simple to implement in code when I had the pad schematic in front of me. Maybe I just got lucky with my A1200s, but it worked across 3 different motherboard revisions without issues.

And all custom code to read joypads fail when a standard joystick (2 button) is used.

Which is why you use the identification feature of the CD32 pad to determine if you're using a CD32 pad. If not, fall back to 2-button mode.

[Retro1234]

going totally! off topic
I wonder why at this point why Commodore weren't thinking about PPC instead of 68k processors.

I also wonder maybe farfetched, the CD drive was Sony and if Sony decided to take a look at what there drive was being used for and thought ok this machine is nothing much but now there is a new PPC for this Amiga computer and this is powerful and if they got any ideas for there own machine.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by -Acid-

I've never seen a single TV with an s-video port on it in - imo this was not a common standard on tv's in the UK at any time. RGB scart on the other hand was and it was either abolute incompetence or utter cheapness that they did not put it on the CD32.

Completely incorrect. JVC, Toshiba, Panasonic, Sony all used them. They were common up until hdmi cam along.
These days your just stuck with composite on a jack, as an alternative. My current LG 42" does have all inputs including S-Video.

Maybe you didn't see them, as alot stuck them on the front, under the flap. As they used more for camcorders.

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

[skan]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

going totally! off topic
I wonder why at this point why Commodore weren't thinking about PPC instead of 68k processors.

Because they were thinking PA-RISC and Hombre maybe?

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

going totally! off topic
I wonder why at this point why Commodore weren't thinking about PPC instead of 68k processors.

Because they didn't existed?
Wiki say 68060 processor was released in 1994, and CD32 in 1993.
They couldn't even implement fastest 68k processor in it.

However, if they implemented 040 (for some reasonable price (in cooperation with Motorola)), and some custom chips to help on 3D and texturing, it could probably easily compete with Playstation, and even beat it.
Imagine that power man... few games that utilize it's power, and it would be sold in tens of millions.... it would become Playstation before Playstation...

Commodore... Commodore...

[Retro1234]

yet by 1994 Mac had ported its whole OS to PPC with 68k emulation.

[skan]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

yet by 1994 Mac had ported its whole OS to PPC with 68k emulation.

But not exactly a cheap and low-end CPU...

[thairacerjp]

Agree, imagine that now with only a 68030 and 64 mo ram I can emulate Alone in the Dark that was a killer app in 1992, it run slowly but playable under Mac emulation so if used directly hardware it would be possible only with original graphic, the 3D used was not far from hunter. Virtua GP in 1999 only in aga was very impressed for his time, 3D textured without add-on card ! only talented programmer
[ Show youtube player ]

yes, now with the TF330 it's a very good Amiga entertainment center , easy to install, connected to HDMI with MKII indivision, can read cdxl from flash card or CD with DVD quality, connect the internet with EPS-01 card (great for updates, downloading games and suring on low bandwidth websites), irc chat, playing cd+G karaoke cd..... playing Amiga-CD games.
Alone shapeshifter :
[ Show youtube player ]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Because they didn't existed?
Wiki say 68060 processor was released in 1994, and CD32 in 1993.
They couldn't even implement fastest 68k processor in it.

However, if they implemented 040 (for some reasonable price (in cooperation with Motorola)), and some custom chips to help on 3D and texturing, it could probably easily compete with Playstation, and even beat it.
Imagine that power man... few games that utilize it's power, and it would be sold in tens of millions.... it would become Playstation before Playstation...

Commodore... Commodore...

[FOL]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Because they didn't existed?

Wiki say 68060 processor was released in 1994, and CD32 in 1993.

They couldn't even implement fastest 68k processor in it.



However, if they implemented 040 (for some reasonable price (in cooperation with Motorola)), and some custom chips to help on 3D and texturing, it could probably easily compete with Playstation, and even beat it.

Imagine that power man... few games that utilize it's power, and it would be sold in tens of millions.... it would become Playstation before Playstation...



Commodore... Commodore...

I thought alot of commodore engineers worked on PlayStation hardware design?


Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

[duga]

Or you confuse it with Panasonic 3DO?

[FOL]

Originally Posted by duga

Or you confuse it with Panasonic 3DO?

Oh come guys. Your just trying to wind Gilbert up. This has actually calmed down and people are discussing.

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[skan]

Originally Posted by FOL

Oh come guys. Your just trying to wind Gilbert up. This has actually calmed down and people are discussing.

...but that's true anyway: RJ Mical and Dave Needle designed both the Handy (aka Atari Lynx) and the HW/SW tech behind 3DO...

Regarding all these "what if" scenarios... If CBM didn't go belly up we would have had both a Hombre-based CD64 (or whatever) and a Hombre module for CD32 as well...and I bet that would have been a full Hombre board genlocked internally just like the FMV module, using the CD32 just kinda like a Vampire uses the underlying Amiga.

Ah, what if...

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Define "Early adopter"? Because games like Frontier were pretty early releases in the CD32's life.


Citation needed. Where, exactly, would such an add-on go? I've already explained the technical reasons that such add-ons don't exist.


Anything's possible if you throw enough money at it. You could probably put Zorro slots on the CD32 and run a Bridgeboard from it if you were really crazy enough and had enough cash and time to throw at it. But I also pointed out that it obviously wasn't a design feature of the CD32, a point which you've totally ignored (as usual).

Yep. You can fit games in less than 1K of memory. What's your point? That no console or computer system or game should ever need more than 1K of storage?


You've entirely ignored my points about Theme Park and the other games. There's simply too much data to save, so game saving capability has to be sacrificed. What's so clever about having to leave out the *actual* park in Theme Park?


Games that use passwords have a very finite number of possible states, so it's easy to store things as a hash. Not all games are like this, with lots having many billions of permutations of game state, making password saves (or the equivalent CD32 data save) impossible. Theme Park doesn't just have to save what level you're no, what score you have and how many lives remain. It has to store the location, the cost, the condition, the history, the capacity, the settings, the layout of every single ride, the mood, position, status and destination of every single person in the park, mathematical models of every single competitor, every single tile, every financial point, the progress of every step on the research tree... By all means, show us some working code (I'll accept pseudocode) that allows that to be saved in 1K.


Indeed... So why be offended when someone speaks ill of its 3D processing chip then?


Just proving my point regarding the persecution complex. There's no us versus them going on with anyone else but you. This supposed poor treatment you're talking about isn't actually to do with you being a CD32 owner. But I've already explained that and again you've ignored it.


You've got to be joking, right?


And once again you're ignoring what I and others are saying, thus giving your opinion more merit than facts. Which is absurd.


And again, you're ignoring the technical aspects of why upgrading the memory wasn't a design priority for the CD32.

Nope, we don't.


For more money than an A1200 could be turned into an enhanced CD32...


It's already been explained to you. It's your arrogance and refusal to accept any facts that contradict your delusions that make you a target for people.


It's utterly baffling that you're trying to say this to me, when it's clearly a projection of your own behaviour.


You clearly have a poor grasp of the concept of persecution complex.


Now I really think you are either trolling or have serious issues.


Very much no, you don't get me at all. But convincing yourself that you do is the only way to marry the dissonance of reality with your imagination.


Yep, provided the games followed the rules. But if Commodore had wanted a simple way to expand the flash, they would have provided a slot like the A600, A1200 or CDTV for expanding the NVRAM. But they didn't - and didn't even provide support for such a slot in the chipset.


People don't just moan about the controller because it broke on them, though they do seem pretty fragile. My original CD32 controller is undamaged, but it's still an awful controller with that D-pad. The stuck-on cross thing they added later on is an improvement but still not very nice at all.


Nope. That really is just you imagining it.


Wow, is reality finally dawning?


Equating a PlayStation memory card with an SX-1 is absurdity in the extreme. If you had to pay the price of the PlayStation again for a memory card, it would very much have been criticised, and rightly so. If the CD32 had been designed with memory cards in mind, it would have avoided that criticism in the same way the PlayStation did.


Indeed, many games just banged the hardware for CD32 pad support, just like most games banged the hardware for their graphics instead of using graphics.library. It's pretty trivial, and means that even ECS games with CD32 pad support can be played on an Amiga with any Kickstart / Workbench version.

Dude you write far too much for me to answer and you troll a lot but I will answer your less incendiary questions

I did a bit of thinking about the CD32 and look the AUX port - has input/output - therefore easy to connect a storage device to this to save games. Why are people saying it's so hard/expensive? The ZX Spectrum could play cartridge games this way. Make the device and developers will use it! (maybe they could even release a new version of Theme Park especially for you to play. although I still think you would be unhappy)

https://old.pinouts.ru/InputCables/K...2_pinout.shtml

Lets be honest - Frontier is just shovel-ware. They didn't even enhance it much for the CD-32 hardware. CD32 is capable of much more.

For Theme Park you would need the extra storage space provided by an expansion (via AUX) - just like you need a memory card for playstation - in fact I had about 10 when I owned a Playstation.

I think the fact you use Theme Park as an example of why the CD32 is not great - shows desperation. Why not mention every amazing game on the CD32 instead?

I didn't get offended about the Akiko guy. I can't even remember him or what he said apart from that. I just replied to that guy - there is no 3D processing chip but Akiko is used in 3D processing so I knew he was talking about that. Why do I even have to answer that?

Also having 32-bit written on the console really advertises how it the first ever 32 bit CD system in the West and it's superiority to the 16 bit consoles and all previous Amigas (althought they are good too guys!). It's a beautiful thing

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

Because they didn't existed?
Wiki say 68060 processor was released in 1994, and CD32 in 1993.
They couldn't even implement fastest 68k processor in it.

However, if they implemented 040 (for some reasonable price (in cooperation with Motorola)), and some custom chips to help on 3D and texturing, it could probably easily compete with Playstation, and even beat it.
Imagine that power man... few games that utilize it's power, and it would be sold in tens of millions.... it would become Playstation before Playstation...

Commodore... Commodore...

Yes that's right - the CD32 was purely an enhanced A1200. They didn't want to implement a better CPU. They had already planned the A1200 CD32 card to improve that machine (A1200) to CD32 level. They wanted the combined installed base and for developers to have the biggest audience possible for their games

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

Dude you write far too much for me to answer and you troll a lot but I will answer your less incendiary questions

Karma police
Arrest this man
He talks in maths
He buzzes like a fridge
He's like a detuned radio