Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[grond]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Stop talking rubbish as per usual...

Show me exactly where then???

You avoid answering my questions.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

Yeap, there are facts - but you keep ignoring them.

Who's ignoring facts exactly?

... amiga-news.de article full of facts and e-mail proof to back up the claims.
... Apollo team giving way a CF card with people's Vampire purchase; full with a hacked Amiga OS 3.9 / software at various Amiga expos, see above.
... Apollo team having links to said CoffinOS on their website / forum.

Originally Posted by AMike

Your rules are worthless in the real world - check again the name of the topic - legality.

They are not my rules; they were made by all the Admin / Moderation team in order to be a responsible forum.

Again, you don't agree / like them... you know where the door is, simple!!!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by grond

You avoid answering my questions.

Bahahahahahah; that's the funniest thing I've heard in years

You should be a comedian; really you should!!!

Especially coming from the masters of avoidance; who still haven't had the balls to set the record straight from the Apollo team's perspective; and dodged question, after question, after question...

Originally Posted by grond

The devs working on OS3.1.4 and 3.2 are doing their work for free. How does it hurt them economically if an older version of the same OS is made available illegally?

You are a lawyer; surely you know what your team is going is illegal. End of story!!!

You should know better; or really change profession.

Originally Posted by grond

Now how is the situation for a game developer who wants to market a new commercial game and has to face the competition of thousands of illegally provided games?

What? How does that relate to the topic?

[coldacid]

I think it's time that BippyM or RCK close this thread. There's just heat, no light going on here, and the most vocal people in this thread are behaving like children. Y'all need to go for a walk.

[th4t1guy]

It seems like the issue of questionable files uploaded to ftp will always exist, and likely nobody has the time to audit everything as soon as it is uploaded.
Can offending files just be addressed (maybe either deleted or moved to an admin folder for later audit) as they are discovered/mentioned, similar to how other social media is handled everywhere else? Is taking down the ftp necessary?

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by grond

The devs working on OS3.1.4 and 3.2 are doing their work for free. How does it hurt them economically if an older version of the same OS is made available illegally?

Of the two of us, you are the lawyer. You should know better than this.


But, in case you want an answer as why I care: I call this a matter of respect of software developers. The vampire core is also software, albeit in VHDL and not in C or assembler, and you and your fellows should know as well as I how long it takes to create worthwhile software, leave alone an entire operating system.


Don't you think that it is disrespectful just to ignore that, and provide work of third parties for free, without checking with these parties, even more so as you do *not* provide your work free of charge?



Maybe I would be a bit milder minded if you would make the vampire core freeware, as free as you seem to take the work of others?


I just see here the type of "We are great, the rest is nonsense, just let's steal this worthless software" attitude, and this is really painful.


Either give and take is for free, or it is not. But using different measures for your work compared to those of others shows a sort of misalignment in your morale compass.

Originally Posted by grond

Perhaps it would indeed be best to leave it to the copyright proprietors to defend their supposed rights against the alleged infringers and to not fight surrogate wars which are clearly fueled by some irrational dislike of the Vampire-project.

It would have probably been liked more - at least from my side - if you wouldn't have partially based it on third party properties. Yes, things would be harder, but it is always harder to create something new or to negotiate with those that have the rights.

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Who's ignoring facts exactly?

... amiga-news.de article full of facts and e-mail proof to back up the claims.
... Apollo team giving way a CF card with people's Vampire purchase; full with a hacked Amiga OS 3.9 / software at various Amiga expos, see above.
... Apollo team having links to said CoffinOS on their website / forum.

Have I ever said that's not true? I bought four Vampire and never got any CoffinOS - but I can't talk for others. What count is - as often said - from a legal perspective there is no difference between that, and server full of pirated software.

Originally Posted by DamienD

They are not my rules; they were made by all the Admin / Moderation team in order to be a responsible forum.

Again, you don't agree / like them... you know where the door is, simple!!!

Then let me clarify - not your rules - the EAB rules dosn't count in the real world. And as I often stated before - I've no problem with the with the rules or the FTP at all - it's the logical discrepancies in juding others.

[apex]

Destroying EAB after so many years of harmony by moderation, very sad. I still see no sense in this discussion, I see no winner, maybe I am getting too old for this childish games.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Of the two of us, you are the lawyer. You should know better than this.

But, in case you want an answer as why I care: I call this a matter of respect of software developers. The vampire core is also software, albeit in VHDL and not in C or assembler, and you and your fellows should know as well as I how long it takes to create worthwhile software, leave alone an entire operating system.

Don't you think that it is disrespectful just to ignore that, and provide work of third parties for free, without checking with these parties, even more so as you do *not* provide your work free of charge?

Maybe I would be a bit milder minded if you would make the vampire core freeware, as free as you seem to take the work of others?

I just see here the type of "We are great, the rest is nonsense, just let's steal this worthless software" attitude, and this is really painful.

Either give and take is for free, or it is not. But using different measures for your work compared to those of others shows a sort of misalignment in your morale compass.

It would have probably been liked more - at least from my side - if you wouldn't have partially based it on third party properties. Yes, things would be harder, but it is always harder to create something new or to negotiate with those that have the rights.

Great post Thomas

Exactly, absolutely disgusting attitude / behavior from someone who is a lawyer and should know better!!!

[apex]

I know many Vampire users and none of them got Coffin with the Vampire card.

But many of them bought and paid later for 3.1.4! And this is important, not OS3.9 which is full of bugs...

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by apex

Destroying EAB after so many years of harmony by moderation, very sad. I still see no sense in this discussion, I see no winner, maybe I am getting too old for this childish games.

Who is destroying EAB exactly?

You can blame the people in this thread who are saying EAB is as bad as the Apollo team. We are not even in the same ballpark!!!

As for the "EAB File Server" going offline; we are making sure we abide by the rules that have been in place / followed for many decades now. If we didn't we'd be massive hypocrites wouldn't we?

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by DamienD

... amiga-news.de article full of facts and e-mail proof to back up the claims.
... Apollo team giving way a CF card with people's Vampire purchase; full with a hacked Amiga OS 3.9 / software at various Amiga expos, see above.
... Apollo team having links to said CoffinOS on their website / forum.

But this comes right back to my question. WHY do you care what they do on their site or with their business? It has nothing to do with EAB.

[DesertBlizzard]

Vampire ships with AROS KS.
Vampire ships with Caffeine, an AROS distro.
Coffin is someone's personal invention and does not ship with Vampire. It does work really well with one, but also works well in WinUAE.
Nobody cares about H&P, Hyperion, or Cloanto. If you do, name yourself so we can have a more interesting conversation.
This thread is moot.

Everyone download Coffin. My torrent server is quiet right now. If you feel guilty, I challenge you to buy the software that is included, or delete what makes you feel like a shitty human. Now let's return to our love of all things Amiga.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

But this comes right back to my question. WHY do you care what they do on their site or with their business? It has nothing to do with EAB.

So from what you're saying, it seems that you are quite ok with people distributing Amiga OS then; and we should just ignore?

Responsible person right there people

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by DesertBlizzard

Vampire ships with AROS KS.
Vampire ships with Caffeine, an AROS distro.
Coffin is someone's personal invention and does not ship with Vampire. It does work really well with one, but also works well in WinUAE.

It might not right now, but if you read the article written in "Novmeber 2019" then it paints a totally different story... amiga-news.de

Originally Posted by DesertBlizzard

Nobody cares about H&P, Hyperion, or Cloanto. If you do, name yourself so we can have a more interesting conversation.
This thread is moot.

Everyone download Coffin. My torrent server is quiet right now. If you feel guilty, I challenge you to buy the software that is included, or delete what makes you feel like a shitty human. Now let's return to our love of all things Amiga.

We have another winner who doesn't care about pirating still for sale software.

What a legend, and you should be very proud of yourself indeed

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by DamienD

So from what you're saying, it seems that you are quite ok with people distributing Amiga OS then; and we should just ignore?

Responsible person right there people

I don't understand why you wont give simple answers?

Are you mad at them because of piracy in general? Or only because of Amiga OS in particular?

I'll tell you my position clearly. Someone's giving for free something that you cannot legally buy anywhere anymore. It doesn't concern me at all. If it was 3.1.4, that would be another story.

And all this has hurt EAB much more than it has hurt Apollo team/business, if you want to talk about responsibility...

Originally Posted by DamienD

We have another winner who doesn't care about pirating still for sale software.

Again, this doesn't seem to be true as I cannot find OS 3.9 for sale anywhere. There are plenty of valid points to be made, no need to go with fake ones.

[d4rk3lf]

I think the solution would be that Damien buy all Vampire cards, and see if they are bundled with illegal software.
-----------

Joke aside, because of the stupid thread, now the Zone will be offline, and I don't see anything good will come out of this, and I agree it should be closed, before becoming much worse.

[DesertBlizzard]

Originally Posted by DamienD

It might not right now, but if you read the article written in "Novmeber 2019" then it paints a totally different story... amiga-news.de


We have another winner who doesn't care about pirating still for sale software.

What a legend, and you should be very proud of yourself indeed

You can buy OS3.9? I'm on it!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

I don't understand why you wont give simple answers?

Are you mad at them because of piracy in general? Or only because of Amiga OS in particular?

I'll tell you my position clearly. Someone's giving for free something that you cannot legally buy anywhere anymore. It doesn't concern me at all. If it was 3.1.4, that would be another story.

The Apollo team should not be distributing any software still for sale, simple.

From a 2 second Google search:

... https://www.vesalia.de/e_os39.htm
... https://amigastore.eu/en/261-amiga-os-39.html

Originally Posted by Lord Aga

And all this has hurt EAB much more than it has hurt Apollo team/business, if you want to talk about responsibility...

Again, maybe you're ok to turn a blind eye... other's are responsible adults.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by apex

I know many Vampire users and none of them got Coffin with the Vampire card.

But many of them bought and paid later for 3.1.4! And this is important, not OS3.9 which is full of bugs...

It's not "full of bugs" when you apply the Boing Bags and bother to update/add libraries such as guigfx and render, AHI (especially upgrade AHI) and a few others such as the packer/cruncher libs XAD and XFD, mpega.library and icon.library. I can't name them all.

I built an A4000 in FS-UAE by way of 3.1 to 3.5/3.9 and applied the Boing Bags. It was and is, as close to a modern OS as OS3 is ever going to get. It got even better when I updated the libs and the shell commands. I switched out the icons because I thought they looked too small in 1080p.

Several months later, I built an A1200 with 3.1.4. I thought it was garbage right out of the gate. All of the menu items and tools I was used didn't exist and it became apparent you couldn't do anything with a 3.1.4 installation until you added on a WHOLE LOT of additions.

Why so much animosity toward 3.5/3.9 from the 3.1.4 fanboys? Because the 3.1.4 developers themselves felt they needed to denigrate and disparage 3.5/3.9 instead of simply selling 3.1.4 on its own merits and now most of you who swear by 3.1.4 bought/buy into that crap. If you ever built a 3.1.4 and 3.9 system and compared them side by side, you'd know which was the most complete and the most "bug" free.

To the best of my knowledge there is no current legal challenge to Apollo/Coffin from the OS3.9 license holders, there hasn't been any legal challenge in the handful of years Apollo has been around, and there isn't likely to be.

However, there IS a legal challenge by the legal license holders against 3.1.4 which isn't resolved. I don't really care much, I own licenses for 1.2/1.3 which I bought when I purchased my Amiga 1000 back in 1990. Then I purchased a license for 2.04 along with the physical ROM which came with the Insider II/Kwikstart II boards I put in the 1000 so I could have the new OS. All these years later I've purchased 3.1, 3.1.4, and 3.5/3.9. How many freaking licenses do we Amiga users have to buy, anyway? Do I feel ripped off? Yup.