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Old 05 November 2018, 11:52   #221
ptyerman
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Decided to give this a miss and stick with 3.1.
I was going to get it to support the devs but Hyperion aint having a penny off me! I'm not supporting this continuing bullshit!
For my use case though 3.1.4 doesn't give anything I don't already have with 3.1 plus patches so won't be missing much.
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Old 05 November 2018, 11:58   #222
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Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
What I would say is that it might be useful if someone found a way of presenting these documents in a timeline.
number6 is doing that somewhere on aw.net, at least in from of links. but it is just as troublesome to follow, i fear. the minimax conclusion i draw from the situation already for years is still clear of material associated with interested parties already for years.
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Old 05 November 2018, 12:00   #223
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Decided to give this a miss and stick with 3.1.
I was going to get it to support the devs but Hyperion aint having a penny off me! I'm not supporting this continuing bullshit!
For my use case though 3.1.4 doesn't give anything I don't already have with 3.1 plus patches so won't be missing much.


Similar feelings here. I’d really like to see better standards for WB installs and something like apt-get for managing patch versions. It should be entirely possible.

So to get the latest patches you just do apt-get update scsi .. for example. Unless that gets added I’m just staying at the basic 3.1 kickstart with the ClassicWB setup.
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Old 05 November 2018, 12:06   #224
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Amigadocuments is already in chronological order (There or there abouts):

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/
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Old 05 November 2018, 12:13   #225
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So to get the latest patches you just do apt-get update scsi .. for example.
that wont happen anyway, and for a reason, having users update this or that selectively would result in that in the amiga scene there wouldnt be any two users with alike kickstarts, considering particular module versions. a support hell like no other would arise.

also afair the modules might be tightly interrelated, so that changes in one may make adjustments in another necessary, just as we see that 3.1.4 doesnt work with the given cgx to the extent 3.1 did. if there is to be serious development, best case the whole system needs to be worked on and provided, not just individual devices.
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Old 05 November 2018, 12:15   #226
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@plasmab
Yeah, I bet there's more than just you and me that are skipping it because of all the crap! It's just never ending court case after court case. What a waste of money and resources!
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Old 05 November 2018, 12:29   #227
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Decided to give this a miss and stick with 3.1.
I was going to get it to support the devs but Hyperion aint having a penny off me! I'm not supporting this continuing bullshit!
For my use case though 3.1.4 doesn't give anything I don't already have with 3.1 plus patches so won't be missing much.
Just curious... why?
What should Hyperion do differently? Not release anything at all?
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Old 05 November 2018, 13:24   #228
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AmigaOS 3.1.4 withdrawn from market after Amiga

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that wont happen anyway, and for a reason, having users update this or that selectively would result in that in the amiga scene there wouldnt be any two users with alike kickstarts, considering particular module versions. a support hell like no other would arise.

also afair the modules might be tightly interrelated, so that changes in one may make adjustments in another necessary, just as we see that 3.1.4 doesnt work with the given cgx to the extent 3.1 did. if there is to be serious development, best case the whole system needs to be worked on and provided, not just individual devices.


Well you kinda prove my point here. If this is not possible then this is why the AmigaOS is going nowhere. Because there are too many options/permutations. Some people argue that that is the strength of AmigaOS. For me it’s the biggest weakness.

I’d be happy with a distro per kickstart version.

Or

If we had a proper patch packager it should be able to patch a module based on the kickstart installed. Many patches come with a patch per kickstart anyway.

Apt-get is nothing more than a version dependency tree checker. It is allowed to say your kickstart is too old for a package.
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Old 05 November 2018, 13:25   #229
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Just curious... why?
What should Hyperion do differently? Not release anything at all?
Pretty much - they only ever had a license to develop, market and sell Amiga OS4+, now they've decided to go after the 3.x market as their own, despite not having the rights to it.

Having read about the fiasco around A-EON, it doesn't surprise me that Hyperion have gone down this route - past actions repeating in future events and all.

Presumably because the market they thought would be there for 4.x doesn't exist, and with all the renewed interest in classic 3.1, they made a grab for it.

Personally I hope they get slapped down and hard.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:07   #230
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Well you kinda prove my point here. If this is not possible then this is why the AmigaOS is going nowhere. Because there are too many options/permutations. Some people argue that that is the strength of AmigaOS. For me it’s the biggest weakness.
thats why after i heavily patched the 3.1 on my a4k to maintain an applicable environment i went to help with aros as soon as toni and jason started to implement m68k there. but i digress again ..

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Apt-get is nothing more than a version dependency tree checker. It is allowed to say your kickstart is too old for a package.
right. point taken.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:17   #231
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Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble View Post
Pretty much - they only ever had a license to develop, market and sell Amiga OS4+, now they've decided to go after the 3.x market as their own, despite not having the rights to it.
They absolutely have that right, it's right there in plain language in the Settlement Agreement. It is Cloanto which is exercising "rights" it does not have.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:28   #232
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They absolutely have that right
unfortunately its not for us to tell, whether they do or not. and even if, the result is that even bug fixes to kickstart3.1, which if they were to happen, could and should have happened years if not decades ago, but didnt, due to the situation and the attitudes of involved parties. and, as you see, this continues as we speak.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:34   #233
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It's always funny to see how people (in general) can complain for years that things aren't moving forward. And when someone moves and does something to make things happen, he gets harsh criticism.

For my part, I think that things are moving forward because people are taking risks. This has always been the case since the world became the world.

The developers and Hyperion took the risk of making things happen in front of actors sitting comfortably on their chairs with their buttocks in a warm place.

We will see what these legal disputes will bring. For now, I thank the developers and Hyperion for having taken these risks and providing an update for the OS.

Many people have bought this update, we then can say that it was awaited... And even if it's not perfect, it's there. It's not a whistle blowing in the wind.


It's never easy to take risks, but they took the plunge and jumped.
In this regard, they deserve a little more than wishing them to be slapped down and hard.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:37   #234
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They absolutely have that right, it's right there in plain language in the Settlement Agreement. It is Cloanto which is exercising "rights" it does not have.

I read this once and Hyperion does seem to have this right (I bought the 2016 rom and wanted to check). I suspect that this was actually a badly written agreement with the intent being for them to develop 4.x (which as has been pointed out nobody wants).

Cloanto’s position I’m unsure of. I’d bet 50p that discount lawyers were used and we have an intersection of rights... guess that’s what judges are for.

Don’t see why people are happy about this though. Nobody wins.
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:38   #235
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Problem being, these "Settlement Agreements" are usually worded in such a way to mean different things to opposing parties. Resulting in a expensive lawyer to even decode them followed by an even more expensive court case to resolve!
Complete waste of money, time, resources and goodwill!
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Old 05 November 2018, 14:52   #236
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The root cause of the dispute seems to be that shyster Bill McEwen selling an exclusive licence to something he had already exclusively licenced prior.
He's up there with Mehdi Ali in the incompetence/bastardry stakes if you ask me. :-(

Quote:
even bug fixes to kickstart3.1, which if they were to happen, could and should have happened years if not decades ago, but didnt, due to the situation and the attitudes of involved parties.
Well, Cloanto claim they have rights to everything for years, so if they really had confidence in the "rights" they bought, and a genuine wish to help the community, they could have released updates to OS3.1 at any point since then.

Last edited by Minuous; 05 November 2018 at 14:57.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:31   #237
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Cloanto released 3.x, that's an update. Also were they approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it? What is the claim here?
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:37   #238
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Problem being, these "Settlement Agreements" are usually worded in such a way to mean different things to opposing parties. Resulting in a expensive lawyer to even decode them followed by an even more expensive court case to resolve!
Complete waste of money, time, resources and goodwill!
At least the development was not a complete waste of time, they actually fixed issues and made 3.1 so much better.

It is the first time that I can install an AmigaOS without having to patch the crap out of it to make it work more or less.

Amiga users shouldn't care about all this legal shit, we should be happy that they are taking the risk to do what the other lazy money grabbing "amiga" companies haven't done in decades.

By not buying or critizing Hyperion's efforts we are killing any future classic development because we give the signal to the money grabbers that is ok to continue to milk the old cow without any progress whatsoever.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:41   #239
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Cloanto released 3.x, that's an update. Also were they approached by Thor and Olsen to release 3.1.4, and they refused to publish it? What is the claim here?
The 3.x kickstart rom were an utter failure... They introduced more bugs than they solved.

No support, and promises of new kickstart roms which I to this day never received.

I removed the stickers from their eproms and flashed them with 3.1.4 roms, at least they have a purpose now.
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Old 05 November 2018, 15:43   #240
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3.X is quite different as it doesn't appear to have been developed using the original source code. Instead, it's a collection of various already existing updates and patches packaged together. While I'm not dismissing that there was some effort involved in building it, it's a different league to updating and recompiling the original source. It's particularly telling that no update of SetPatch was released to match their custom ROMs, resulting in work-arounds being needed with some setups.
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